| Author | Message | ||
| Dale Registered user Username: Dale Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2007  |
I am finding more and more Adventists who are becoming very closed-minded. I gave my sister several books some years ago. Today I received them back. I could tell that they had never been opened. I grew up thinking that Adventists had the truth and could defend it against any other teachings. Now, however, there seems to be a teaching that Adventists should not listen to or read anything from former Adventists because they might be deceived. I see this as evidence of the cultic core of Adventism. It seems to me that Adventist leaders are quickly finding out that Adventism cannot bear the test of investigation. If there are any Adventists in our forum, I would like to hear from you about this. I hear the SDA church is starting a very structured visitation program where key, well-grounded Adventists are to visit all the church families to make sure they stay away from the errors of the FAF. Is this true? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5687 Registered: 12-2003  |
Dale, I haven't heard of this visitation program, but it wouldn't surprise me. I know that the Michigan ministerial conference in January of this year specifically addressed and countered the impact of the large November/December mailing of Proclamation. In fact, they introduced "In Granite or Ingrained" at that conference. You are right when you speak of the "cultic core" Adventism. It is not merely a misapprehension of doctrine. It is another gospel that teaches what Paul called doctrines of demons, and it has a cultic hold on its members. I just praise God for the miracle of His increasing numbers of people out of its grip! Colleen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 520 Registered: 6-2006  |
Sounds similar to what the Jehovah's Witnesses do. Church members are instructed not to read anything and to turn in any "propaganda" they get from non JWs to their church administrators. If it really is the "truth" then it should be able to stand the test... Glad to see you posting Dale!  Leigh Anne | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 388 Registered: 12-2004 |
I have also had family members request reading material on the Sabbath, and materials on how my new understanding of what being a Christian is, was formulated. After several months, it got returned, largely unread. There is a distinct fear that somehow what I have shared might just be right, and for now, the Holy Spirit has not challenged them to dig a little deeper. Thats fine, in due time God will draw his own into truth. I have found that being militant or combative is not the way to share my new found understanding and faith. I have to trust that If God sees fit to use my influence for His purpose, it will happen. I am always happy to share what God has done for me. I am of the firm belief that the honest seeker of truth, will at some point, recognize the challenges and inconsistancies of the peculiar Adventist theological beliefs. I have to leave that inner questioning to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. Randy | ||
| Lucybugg Registered user Username: Lucybugg Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2007 |
We visited our former SDA church last Sabbath because a friend and his children were being baptized. The adult SS lesson was almost physically excruciating for me to listen to. The pastor kept talking about "new" truth and how it wasn't truth if it didn't agree with the Bible. Finally, I couldn't stand it any more, and I raised my Bible in the air. The teacher acknowledged me, and I asked...is there really anything such as new truth? Doesn't this book contain all the truth we need? Someone said yes. Then I said..well then there's not any real new truth; it is only new truth to the person who finds it in this book. The entire place was quiet. I haven't attempted to share my new beliefs with anyone in my family. They're scared of me as it is. When we began questioning things a year ago we visited a Church of God 7th Day church, and the family nearly went crazy thinking we were leaving Adventism. They won't believe that we've really left; they think we're just being rebellious and acting out. Most have said we discount Ellen White because we don't want to do what she says. So I agree that more and more Adventists are becoming close-minded. I've experienced it. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5692 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lucy, what a great response in that SS class. Your family's denial about your really leaving is one of those typical variations of how Adventists initially relate to people's leaving the church. I remember rationalizing that a friend of mine who left would really be back—she just needed to get a little distance between herself and the Sabbath and get a new persepctive on it; she'd be back soon enough! Wrong. And here I am...! Colleen | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 178 Registered: 8-2006  |
Closed minded? Yes. One old friend said, "I don't know what's going on and I don't want to know what's going on... just don't tell me." That was about as straight forward as it gets. But. Put your praise shoes on for this! The Holy Spirit just opened the spiritual eyes for a family of six! They have studied the new covenant and they see it as plain as day! They need prayer, they are already feeling resentment and dissapointment from being deceived. This is a very Spiritual family and I am sure that they will be a powerful asset for the body of Christ. BTW Dale... If you are still around, I have wanted to ask you if you ever felt like an Exorcist? When you think about it... freeing people from spiritual bondage is not much different than an exorcism. Scary but true. | ||
| Thomas1 Registered user Username: Thomas1 Post Number: 211 Registered: 4-2002  |
Hi Tim, Outstanding news! And so surprising from that culture. Tell your parents I will be praying for them. Remind them that Jesus heals all the past and points to a most wonderful future! As He so often said, "Follow ME." In His Grip <>< Thomas | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5698 Registered: 12-2003 |
Wow! Wonderful news, Tim! With prayers for them, Colleen | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 179 Registered: 8-2006 |
Hey Thomas! I wish it was, but it wasn't my parents. I will still tell them you are praying for them, I look for every opportunity to talk with them about "issues" lately they have pretty much shut down to other-than-adventist ideas. (BTW-Thanks for the Friday humor) Thanks Colleen! | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 132 Registered: 1-2006  |
Dale An Adventist pastor recently commented to me that (given the existing theological and spiritual mess within Adventism) perhaps it is not an accident that God is using FAF and LAM to help so many people trapped in hopelessness. Praise God for whatever methods He uses to rescue us. If your question about visitation is true, maybe He will ultimately use those visits to cause people to seek relief and rest in Jesus. Bob | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 390 Registered: 12-2004 |
I ran across this quote from someone named Thurber, and I think it speaks to this topic. "Most people want to believe rather than know, to take for granted rather than find out". This has been my experience with those Adventist friends that I have shared with. I have also come to appreciate that we are all on a journey, and God in His wisdom will take care of those who seek Him, be they Adventist or not. | ||
| Lucybugg Registered user Username: Lucybugg Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2007 |
I received a phone call today from a dear church friend. She begged me and begged me to return. We talked a little while and then ended the conversation. Later, I called my mother to tell her about the call. She told me she had told Joyce that we'd never return to church and that I didn't even consider myself to be SDA anymore. All this surprised me because while I knew my mother knew these things I never thought she'd acknowledge them. This opened up a conversation about EGW and her errors. I began telling mom about all the errors and she asked me where I found all that I was telling her (I had accessed the ellenwhite.org site). I told her and then she asked me to print it off for her to read which greatly surprised me. All this is amazing to me in light of my post of yesterday regarding my family's thoughts. Praise the Lord! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5703 Registered: 12-2003 |
Wow, how amazing, Lucy! Praise the Lord indeed! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3557 Registered: 3-2004  |
Lucy, That is so good to hear that your Mom listened to you and then asked questions. Praise The Lord!!! He is doing an awesome work. Diana | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 679 Registered: 9-2006  |
Lucybugg, I had the thought came to me when I read you post that no matter how staunchly Adventist your parents may seem your testimony my be Gods tool to deal with them. I want to bring this scripture to you. Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. Your testimony is of his saving and keeping power. That is our weapon that overcomes and it cannot go unnoticed. A person may not heed it, turn you away but it will not go unnoticed if we give God the glory for our salvation. It will whisper to them in the dead of night after they thought they ignored it. Take strength and courage from his word, we can depend on him to do as he has said. River | ||
| Lucybugg Registered user Username: Lucybugg Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2007 |
Thanks Colleen, Diana and River! Also, thanks River for the text. My mother was raised SDA/Baptist. Her mother was SDA and her father was Baptist so every Saturday AND Sunday she was in church. So she knows that there are other beliefs out there. She told me the Lord told her to leave the church about the same time I left, but she asked if she could go back because she has to go to church somewhere. The Lord is working on her most definitely. | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 555 Registered: 7-2000 |
Dale, I'm in close contact with the churches in my area and I haven't heard of the program---yet. I say 'yet' as all three of these churches are intensively studying the key SDA doctrines and putting on presentations such as 'what is wrong with the secret rapture'. So, this may be a prelude for training and finding the most doctrinally correct for visitation. | ||
| Jecee61 Registered user Username: Jecee61 Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2007 |
I stopped going to the SDA church several years ago because of a divorce. For three years I was floundering around spiritually. In Dec. I made a determined decision to find a place to worship. Because of the small town I live in there were no other Adventist churches. I started visiting Sunday churches. Within a matter of 4 weeks I found a Nazerene church that I really enjoy. I have been attending regularly for about 3 months. Now, mind you, all of this time my SDA friends were urging me to attend church and keep close to God. So, in my innocence, I started started sharing my excitment over my newfound church with my SDA friends. I was shocked at the response. They acted as though I was now going to hell instead of rejoicing with me that I was finally feeling reconnected to God. Their reaction hurt me deeply and actually sent me looking on the internet for information about the SDA doctrines that always bothered me; specifically, EGW, the remnant church and the IJ. My search uncovered what you all already know. I have become convinced that I could never belong to the SDA church again. I feel re-born spiritually. Last night I met with a girlfriend that was raised SDA but hasn't attended church for years because of her anger with the leaders. I thought she might be open to a discussion about these doctrinal issues. Boy, was I wrong. Her eyes grew large as I began to share my findings. She defended the church that she now spurns. I was amazed that even she would not consider that maybe, just maybe, there could be a different understanding of scripture outside of the narrow, non-Biblical, EGW interpretation. Sigh. I have to keep praying for wisdom. I enjoy this site and visit it often, although I don't post. I am learning a lot from all of you. God Bless. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 685 Registered: 9-2006 |
Jecee61, Hang in there and don't let anyone get in the way of knowing Christ. Although the reaction from SDA friends does hurt, I urge you not to let bitterness or resentment toward them to get any hold in your life. Although I am no one to be saying any of this, I did want to encourage you in seeking our Lord Jesus Christ and perhaps cheer you on a little. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3566 Registered: 3-2004 |
Jecee, I quit attending church because of a divorce, also. I quit because the people were not supportive and two old biddies were talking about me and my son heard them and told me. I also found support with Parents without Partners. My family is like your friend. They do not go to church, but do not want to hear my experience with Jesus. Not all of my family, I should say, is like that. My oldest sister and 2 of my younger brothers will listen to me. River, You have every right to encourage us to keep on seeking Jesus Christ and to cheer us on. You are a never been, but your heart is tender towards us because of your SDA friends. You are one of the few non SDA who understand SDAs. You keep on keeping on for your SDA friends. God is with you to plant the seeds wih them. It is always amazing how God uses us. Diana | ||
| Jecee61 Registered user Username: Jecee61 Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2007 |
Thank you for your encouragement. It means more to me than you will know. | ||
| Rejoyce719 Registered user Username: Rejoyce719 Post Number: 30 Registered: 1-2007 |
So true, Lucybugg. No Adventists do everything Ellen White says. They even label each other as fanatics if done. Great answer in SS. At the 1888 SDA Conference when Waggoner brought out that we are not saved by keeping the law, as Adventists taught, but by faith in the grace of Jesus Christ, it was considered "new light". Of course, it was not new light at all. Just new to them. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5720 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jecee61, thanks for sharing your experience with us. We really do understand what you are experiencing! River, you know we welcome and love your encouragement and your exhortations. Keep saying the things you're moved to say! God blesses us through your presepctive and insights. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3569 Registered: 3-2004 |
I relation to what Dale wrote to start this thread, I found the following on the official EGW website. Diana CONNECTING WITH JESUS A Global Ellen White Book Distribution Project The largest global book distribution project in the history of the Seventh-day Adventist Church was launched on Sabbath evening, July 2, 2005, at the General Conference session in St. Louis, Missouri. Sponsored by the General Conference and the world divisions in cooperation with the Ellen G. White Estate, the project entitled "Connecting With Jesus" will provide ten Ellen White books with study guides to two million Adventist families around the world during a five year period. The books and study guides will be published in many languages at subsidized prices that all can afford. In some places they will also be made available in electronic format. The ten Ellen White books in the set are: Patriarchs and Prophets Steps to Christ Prophets and Kings Christian Service The Desire of Ages Counsels for the Church The Acts of the Apostles Counsels on Stewardship The Great Controversy The Ministry of Healing In the beginning of the Advent movement, God worked through Ellen White to help shape the mission and message of the church. Making these Heaven-sent messages available to new church members, as well as to others who do not now have access to them, will help assure the on-going unity of the church, both theologically and organizationally. But to make this exciting "Connecting With Jesus" program succeed, investment partners are needed. Do you want to help deepen the church's spirituality? Do you want to help assure that the prophetic mission and message of the Adventist Church will be preserved and shared? Do you want to help maintain the unique identity of the Seventh-day Adventist Church until Jesus returns? If so, we believe you will be eager to invest in this project. The total cost of the "Connecting With Jesus" program is projected to be approximately US $8,000,000. Of that amount, the General Conference is contributing $1,000,000. In addition, the divisions and union conferences are making sums available. But for the plan to succeed, the support of all church members is needed. Working together, we can make it happen! Pray for the project, and please make a sacrificial investment. Your check should be made payable to the "General Conference", and be mailed to: Ellen White Book Project | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 135 Registered: 1-2006 |
Jecee61 Welcome, and please know that I am praying for you. I'm one of those who has been greatly blessed by reading this forum, so I often recommend it to my Adventist friends. Bob | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 246 Registered: 7-2005  |
To answer your question, Dale, a friend in the Kansas City area told me that Richard O'Fill has visited there twice in the past year to speak to all the area SDA churches. Not only that, but about 6 months ago, a spokesperson from the White Estate visited also. Additionally, a local coalition of SDA leaders from several area churches has been purchasing promotional materials, including business cards, books, and videos on key SDA doctrines. They meet regularly to map out their evangeligcal strategy and support a weekly preaching broadcast on a local TV station. *sigh* Honestwitness | ||
| Reb Registered user Username: Reb Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2007 |
So true about Adventists becoming more closed-minded. The SDA church that I attend(against my will) has retrenched after I came out against the IJ and EGW being inspired. The pastor is now going to do a series of sermons on SDA doctrines and a couple of month ago even preached a sermon which he admitted to me privately was directed at me telling church members not to listen to outside sources but only to SDA Church leaders and that their very salvation could depend on it. Does anyone need any more proof that this is a cult! |
