| Author | Message | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 988 Registered: 4-2000  |
Remember the days when the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists recommended and scheduled special fasts on certain Sabbaths? Some of you may have experienced them. Interestingly, it is apparent that Adventists no longer fast on Sabbaths collectively--not even during their GC Session Sabbaths which come only once every five years. Logistically, it would truly simplify and enhance Sabbath observance, by the delegates, to delete Sabbath meals. How about fasting during the annual Campmeeting Sabbaths? Why the gradual discontinuance of fasting on Sabbath? When was the last year that the SDA Church proclaimed a day of fasting? Actually, the prophet Isaiah's injunction to "call the sabbath a delight" doesn't strike us initially as congruent with total abstention from eating. The Torah characterizes Yom Kippur [annual day of atonement] as a "sabbath of sabbaths." Thus, the implication is that the weekly Sabbaths were to be celebratory or festive in nature. In Talmudic tradition, the advocates of Shabbat insisted that the requirement to eat three meals is rooted in the Law. In other words, the weekly Sabbath was not meant to be without meals. By the manna appearing in double portion on Friday, this didn't mean that the Israelites were to eat extra well on Friday and fast on Sabbath. Indeed, the Sabbath was historically-conditioned for the Hebrew people to be a festive and holy day. The fact that the Sabbath laws changed from staying in their tents to the later public worship model reveals yet another aspect of its ceremonial nature. The Apostle John reports that Jesus broke the Sabbath (John 5:18). Certainly, Jesus would NEVER break a moral law. I solicit your comments in regard to your personal experience in fasting on the Sabbath. Also, your thoughts as to why Adventists are no longer fasting on any day would be helpful and interesting. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Jdpascal Registered user Username: Jdpascal Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2003 |
This is a new twist on Sabbath observance to me... Not to say that I've never heard of fasting..... The SDA's in the church's I was associated with all tended towards the belief that Sabbath was not meant to be without meals. And to think that I willingly went along with it all! ;) | ||
| Jeremiah Registered user Username: Jeremiah Post Number: 198 Registered: 1-2004  |
I was led to believe that the Christians of the first 3 centuries kept the Sabbath, and the evidence for that usually consisted of quotes such as from St Ambrose that indicated they were not to fast on the Sabbath. Not fasting was explained as evidence for keeping the Sabbath. Now I know better. Jeremiah | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5419 Registered: 12-2003  |
Dennis, I had forgotten those mandated (or suggested) days of fasting. I do remember those things happening, now that you mention them. My family never fasted that I can remember. I think my dad may have refrained from certain foods, but I can't remember for sure. My mom, on the other hand, has always been one of those rare and enviable people whose metabolism is so high that if she skipped meals, she lost energy and weight. (She tried, for a time, to feed us our "big meal" with entrees and vegetables in the morning, to observe Ellen's counsel about eating the largest meal in the AM, but she lost so much weight by eating light at night that we had to revert back to the old method.) Richard said that he remembers being invited to the pastor's home for lunch on a Sabbath PRIOR to having that day announced as a fasting day. The pastor's wife served them a big meal, but the pastor sat with them and drank smoothies. He said the man had several smoothies, vegetable and fruit, and probably had more food blended up than they ate whole on their plates. H-m-m-m Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 520 Registered: 9-2006  |
Well, itís obvious that I canít give an opinion as to your question Dennis, but as I read your post and different answers this morning it does strike me in a strong way the obvious confusion through out the Adventist church, having read your stories, responses and post for some months now. It just seems to me that the whole Adventist church lives in so much confusion, turmoil and inner anxiety. You folks probably donít notice it as much as I do, your having been born and raised in it. It just seems to me as if the observance of Sabbath has brought on so many problems in individual lives and I think it pretty well reflects what Jesus ran up on in his time of walking the earth. Many of the objections he met with involved Sabbath keeping, seems he couldnít make a move with out running up against the imposed restrictions. It greaves me to say this but I have no doubt that if it was done all over again today the Adventist would be one the first to give him grief and it would be a race between Adventist, LDS, JWís as to which would hang him from the yard arm of the church flag pole. I donít know anything about LDS and JW,s either but the Adventist definitely reflect the same apprehensions and resistance that is reflected in the four gospels. This is just all my own opinion and I donít say it to just to be critical of the Adventist. I do not say this with pleasure at the Adventist plight nor to be sarcastic. It just seems to me the whole Adventist week up to the so called preparation day is taken up in preparation for imprisonment on Friday night at Sundown. If Sabbath is to bring so much joy and impact on their lives it seems to me they would troop into their various churches with angelic looks on their faces. The long awaited day finally being here!! It does so remind me of how I used to live from payday to payday, all week from about Tuesday on toward Friday at 4:30 pm I would plan what I would do ìcome paydayî only to end up Sunday evening with a sinking disappointment at the weekend and facing another grueling week on the job, and only to start living for Friday all over again. It is like going into suspended animation for the five day work week. How many weeks of my life did I waste only in looking forward to Friday at 4:30 to receive that precious paycheck and only to find it brought no real joy but more burden, bills that didnít get paid, hangovers on Monday morning, another long week on the job. Thank God for deliverance from that grind. Now every day is a precious commodity. The song sang by Johnny cash ìSunday morning comin downî is a perfect picture of my life at that time, just another lost drunk. Why do you suppose the ìAdventist wayî reminds me so much of that time in my life, when I think of the Adventist Sabbath it brings it all back with a clarity that is beyond explanations. Forgive for getting off subject Dennis or is it right on subject? River | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 989 Registered: 4-2000 |
Far more common, than fasting ever was in Adventism, is the biblical mandate that they are not to seek their own pleasure on the Sabbath. For many Adventists this will exclude biking, swimming, reading secular material, marital intimacy, watching TV, listening to secular radio, ad infinitum on Sabbath. Amazingly, the SDA hierarchy has not yet decreed that being online on the Sabbath is sinful. Fortunately, for many Seventh-day Adventists, the Sabbath is an excellent time to surf the Internet for biblical truth. It was on a Sabbath afternoon that I discovered that Jesus is the only True Sabbath Rest. However, legalism is never consistent. In most cases, surfing the Internet can potentially expose one to more evil than watching TV without the premium channels. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1549 Registered: 7-2003 |
B would go swimming, bike riding, watch tv (especially his favorite football team) and some of those others, but his church also has motorcycle rides on saturday afternoons. The one that really cracked me up, though, was that they couldn't mow the yard with the riding mower, but they could use it to pull kids around the yard. HOW crazy was that??? I always shook my head on that one. Put the blade down and do something useful, I say! | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 224 Registered: 3-2005 |
In boarding academy the guys had a motorcycle club that went riding on Sabbath. However, I had a horse boarded there and couldn't ride her on Sabbath! I couldn't figure out why one and not the other. Besides riding a horse seemed closer to nature that riding a motorcycle!! Also, I remember a "For and Against" debate (it was a feature in the Gleaner or another one of the SDA publications) about whether it was acceptable to have marital relations on Sabbath!!! I'm so glad to be far away from all that nonsense now! Praise God! -tisha | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 991 Registered: 4-2000 |
KNOWING YOUR IDENTITY Ellen White admonished Seventh-day Adventists to never say that they are saved. Apparently, telling others that you are a Christ-follower is nothing less than being boastful and presumptuous anyway. Due to their exclusive investigative judgment, they will have to wait to find out if they are "safe to save." Historically, of course, they were very certain that all the non-Adventists didn't measure up either. Arrogantly and unashamedly, the Adventists through the years have referred to those not sharing their views as whores of Babylon, Sunday keepers, false brethern, fallen churches, sun worshippers, worse than the heathen, apostate Protestants, and James White--on at least one occasion--even called them "swine." Periodically, in ancient Israel, the leaders took a roll call of all the Hebrew people. This was done before times of moving, for information purposes, for planning strategies, et cetera. If they didn't identify themselves properly, they were considered a part of the mixed multitude that accompanied them from Egypt. It was very important for every Israelite to fully reveal his tribal identity, location, and name. Can you even remotely believe that any Israelite would have responded as follows? (1) Maybe I'm an Israelite. (2) I'm trying to be an Israelite. (3) I hope I'm an Israelite. (4) Someday an investigative judgment will determine if I'm an Israelite. (5) I think I'm an Israelite. (6) Maybe I'll find out after I die that I'm an Israelite. (7) I would be surprised to find out someday that I'm an Israelite. (8) Someday I may become an Israelite. (9) I really don't know if I'm an Israelite. (10) I won't tell anyone that I'm an Israelite because that would be boastful and presumptuous. (11) Since some Israelites have disobeyed and fallen short of God's expectations, I refuse to be called an Israelite. (12) I refuse to identify myself as an Israelite although I like to live as one. Truly, the transition from being merely a HOPE SO Christian to becoming a KNOW SO Christian is beyond human language to adequately describe. It is akin to having a mental assent to truth versus the essential regeneration of our dead spirits. The Apostle John declares: "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life" (I John 5:13 NASB). In his book, "Classic Christianity," Bob George says it well: "Jesus Christ laid down His life for us, so that He could give His life to us, so that He could live His life through us! That's the entire gospel in a nutshell." Dennis Fischer | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 833 Registered: 8-2004  |
 I was taught that it was fine to introduce yourself as a Christian, if Adventist didn't seem appropriate at the time. The problem with that was that Christian did NOT equal saved in my Adventist (and later Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement) vocabulary. Even within SDAism/SDARMism though there were people who taught that you CAN know that you are going to heaven. One particular person liked the verse "He who has the son has life" as proof. Another favorite of mine and several others was "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Christ Jesus whom thou hast sent." These were some of the the bright flashes of the awesome reality of Christ that broke through from time to time. These things were taught. . . right alongside the teachings of 'never say you're saved' and 'one unconfessed sin . . . ' Thank God that deceit and double talk doesn't confuse our Savior! Blessings, Mary | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 834 Registered: 8-2004 |
Regarding fasting, the SDARM still proclaims annual (and more rarely semi-annual) fasts as part of their 'Week of Prayer' services. The fasts are intended to be from sunset Friday till sunset Saturday the day before the culminating Sunday meeting (on Sunday it's ok to count the offering and to announce the take from the front). Week of Prayer is usually held one of the first weeks of December. In North America the usual custom is for the whole church family to get together for readings set for Friday night, Sabbath morning, sometime Sunday, midweek (usually Wednesday), then Friday night again, Sabbath morning again, and a culminating meeting Sunday morning (or where distances are great, on Saturday night after dark). At each of these meetings someone has taken thought as to who will read which paragraphs of the readings and has lined people up. The children who are old enough to read are given special consideration - if there are enough children they may even have a whole reading. On the final Sabbath everyone who is old enough ans strong enough fasts from food and water (children who are 'on the edge' are encouraged to fast as long as they can and then given what they need. Pregnant and nursing mothers are exempted if they so choose). That afternoon, since most people are not eating anyway, is considered a prime time for 'Young People's Meeting, when the young and young-at-heart take turns going up front and performing songs, poems, stories, etc to the hearts content of some and past the end of the patience of others. As soon as sundown comes (at least at some of the church locations) all sorts of treats are brought out to 'break the fast'. It's a time of much friendly chatter and much feasting. Then Sunday morning (or on that same Saturday night) is the 'Close of the Week of Prayer' service. This includes the final readings and benedictions, gaily wrapped gifts for all the Sabbath School children, and a special offering. In some of the churches, while it's against protocol to say the names of the donors, the white envelopes with offering inside have a Psalm text written on the outside. As the offering is opened at the front of the church the amount of the donation is stated after the Psalm is read. Usually you can tell who chose which Psalm and thereby know who gave what. Some local groups have decided that that is not appropriate however and so they read all the verses that have been chosen as 'thanksgivings' while someone counts the offering in another room. This is usually the biggest offering of the year, and can reach quite surprising amounts considering the smallness of the church groups. Since the SDARM does not generally recognize 'secular holidays' as a church (though individual families will sometimes celebrate Thanksgiving or Christmas), 'Week of Prayer' serves as a kind of Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Turning of the church year all rolled into one. Some families even give 'Week of Prayer' gifts to their children instead of Christmas gifts (since Christmas is considered to be very pagan). A culture all their own! Mary | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 992 Registered: 4-2000 |
Mary, Thanks for sharing the unique tradition of fasting in the Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement. It appears that they have far more differences with the SDA mother church than the initial bearing of arms issue. Now I feel somewhat deprived that I never received a Week of Prayer gift as a child (smile). Traditionally, in the SDA Church, at least one reading during the annual Week of Prayer was attributed to Ellen White. Yes, the SDARM has "a culture all their own!" Dennis Fischer | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 838 Registered: 8-2004 |
LOL! Yes, they do have some rather large differences (for another example you must be a vegetarian to be a member). At least most of the time they use EGW as validation for the ways they differ. And yes, at least one reading in each 'Week of Prayer' is an article from her pen. The rest are from different General Conference or Regional brethren (and every now and then a sister). At the SDA academy I attended Week of Prayer was a big deal too, but not to the same extent. Regarding the culture of the two churches, it has been observed that the SDARM borrows heavily from Eastern European culture while the SDA church itself is heavily influenced by American culture. |
