| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 510 Registered: 9-2006  |
Do the Adventist preach the same Jesus that Paul preached? Or have they received a different Spirit? (2 Cor 11:3 NIV) But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. (2 Cor 11:4 NIV) For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. Very interesting verses of Bible text (A Jesus other that the Jesus we preached). Do the Adventist preach a different Jesus? In Paulís day, Paul didnít have Paul to read, Christ had already ascended and the day of Pentecost had come and gone. Paul was preaching the same Jesus that the rest of the apostles preached. After the Day of Pentecost, many things had happened there in Jerusalem. (Acts 1:8 KJV) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. The Holy Ghost had come upon them and they went everywhere preaching Jesus. The same Jesus that Paul preached after the Damascus road experience. (Acts 1:22 KJV) Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. Peter, James and John and all the rest of the 12 apostles were to be witnesses of Jesus resurrection, special messengers, they had been prepared by Jesus from the beginning to testify of him and all that they had seen and heard of Christ the messiah, the long awaited one. These men were fully qualified to preach Jesus to the people, to preach his salvation to them. We see in Acts (Acts 2:38 KJV) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:39 KJV) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. [All that the Lord shall call], this is the qualifications for salvation and after we have been called and qualified, to preach Christ, to preach the same Jesus that the apostles and Paul preached. In Acts (Acts 16:30 KJV) And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? (Acts 16:31 KJV) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:32 KJV) And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. Here again the same qualifications, believe on the Jesus the apostles and Paul preached, the arisen saving Lord, the same one who said (Mark 16:15 KJV) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mark 16:16 KJV) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Is it the same Jesus the Apostles preached who investigates every move, every word spoken to see if one is fit for salvation in the final day? Is this the same Jesus the Adventist preach who Paul preached? Is this the same Jesus the Adventist preach that Paul preached that said those words that are recorded in Mark 16:15,16? Is it the same Jesus that Paul preached? How about Philip and the eunuch? (Acts 8:35 KJV) Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. (Acts 8:36 KJV) And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? (Acts 8:37 KJV) And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. No 27 fundamentals here, only one. The eunuch was reading the Old testament and Philip picked up from there and preached unto him the same Jesus that Paul preached. (and he preached unto him Jesus) anything said about investigation into the eunuchs life thereafter? The eunuch went away rejoicing, if he was going to spend his life being investigated what would he have to rejoice about? Would this be the same Jesus that Peter and the apostles and Paul preached? An investigating Jesus? Some sort of heavenly detective? Did the apostles and Paul preach salvation and investigation after the fact? Did Jesus? Is the investigating Jesus of the Adventist the same one who Paul preached? If not then the Adventist preach a different Jesus than the one Paul preached. It is a grave task [responsibility] that has been handed down to us today, to preach the same Jesus that Paul and the apostles preached. To exhort, to admonish those who come our way to believe with their heart, that same Jesus, it is a serious thing to preach a different Jesus than the one Paul preached. Jesus said in Luke 11:23 He who is not with me is against me; and he who does not gather with me, scatters. If we preach a different Jesus than the one that Paul preached, we scatter the sheep, they are scattered and excluded, what a responsibility we have to hold to the ìsincere milk of the Word of God. We have one message to the lost ìBelieve on the Lord Jesus and you shall be savedî and follow up those that are being saved with opportunity to be baptized in his precious name, gathering instead of scattering. We must preach the same Jesus that Paul preached. No more, no less. A different Jesus (spirit) than the one that Paul preached will worry and scatter the sheep and they will not be fed (as it were) scattered among the rocks and brambles of another Gospel. [praying for FAF week-end for a great harvest of souls] get ready to feed the sheep with the same gospel that Paul preached folks, in my spirit I hear a mighty trumpet blowing for FAF week-end, God is calling his sheep unto himself. Heís alive and weíre forgiven, heavens gates are open wide. Rejoice Colleen the harvest is coming, be of good courage one and all. River | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5410 Registered: 12-2003  |
River, thank you. Thank you for your prayers for this weekend. Thank you for pointing out that we do not need to be ashamed of KNOWING that the Jesus Paul preached is the real Jesus, and the Jesus we knew as Adventists was a different Jesus. I praise God that He sends us to pray for each other, and that His purposes will be accomplishedóand the gates of hell cannot prevail against His churchóall those who know Jesus and are born of the Spirit. He is calling us to Himself, and He is allowing us to have a part in His story. Praise God from Whom all blessings flow! Colleen | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 84 Registered: 10-2006 |
River, Thank you so much for pointing out the vast gap between the Jesus known by the apostles and the "investigative Jesus" taught by Adventism. Since this false gospel Jesus is taught in the church's fundamental doctrines, it would behove us to keep this in mind when witnessing to Adventists. They have not grasped the true Jesus and His gospel until they can believe His very words and repent of the words spoken by a false prophet. Thanks for the encouraging words for the FAF weekend. I too shall pray for this healing event. God Bless you River, steve | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1715 Registered: 10-2004  |
I decided to post the following in this thread, since it fits. I thought I would post the following, since I posted it on another forum, where there is a discussion of an interview that is on the progressiveadventism.com blog site and the comments posted following the interview. The "David Newman" I mention is SDA Pastor J. David Newman. ----------------------- Wow, David Newman's comment was one of the most tritheistic statements I've seen by an SDA! Did anyone else notice that he actually admitted to believing in "three gods"?! He wrote: "The doctrine of the Tinity is called an Implicit doctrine rather than an explicit one. This is because there is NO clear statement in Scripture saying three gods are one." And this statement also proves that he is a polytheist: "Language is our big problem. Words are only symbols for what is in the mind. That is why JWs emphasize the humanity of Christ by playing on the fact that he is a son, human. It is only in the New Testament that we get a fuller picture of the godhead. We use analagies such as in Gen 2:24 where Adam and Eve became one flesh (even though they were still two separate people)." WOW!!! I have seen that analogy used by other SDAs and it is proof that they are polytheist. They think that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are relationally "one" (one in purpose, etc.)--just as Adam and Eve were! In other words, they don't believe that God is one living Being, but rather they can only say they believe there is one God by redefining "God" (or "the Godhead") to mean the title of a "group"--a divine "membership club" if you will--of which there are three "members," or "divine beings" (gods). This is no different than the Mormon Godhead doctrine (which also says that there are three divine beings who are one in purpose). Looking at the above analogy about Adam and Eve--let's say that instead of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--we were to say that Adam and Eve are God. Would we have two gods? Absolutely. And by using that analogy they are making it clear that they believe in three separate divine beings who are one in purpose, etc. (which they also state outright!). When anyone says they don't think that the Trinity is an important doctrine--then that is probably a good hint that they don't really believe in the true, orthodox Trinity doctrine themselves. That link that Greg posted above (http://www.amazingdiscoveries.org/fileadmin/templates/articles/ADVENTIST_HISTORY_AND_THE_TRINITY.pdf) to Amazing Discoveries is a great resource. I had seen that site before and an article that is similar to--but I believe shorter and a bit different, than that link. That site is an SDA site and they believe in the Trinity doctrine as taught officially by the mainstream SDA church. That article examines and quotes the Arian SDAs and defends the SDA Trinity doctrine. But they make some amazing admissions on there. They show that just because the SDA church now uses the term "Trinity," they do not teach the same doctrine as taught by the Catholic Church (and also Prostestantism). In fact, that SDA "pro-Trinity" site does a better job than I ever could of proving that the SDA church does NOT teach the traditional/orthodox/Catholic/Protestant doctrine of the Trinity! They show that Adventism does not believe that God is one Being, as the Catholic Church (and all Christians and all monotheists!) believe. They even admit outright such things as the following at the above link:
Remember, these quotes are coming from a "pro-Trinity" SDA site!!!!! SavedForever ------------------- Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5429 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jeremy, thank you so much for sharing this! I find it interesting that the Adventist church, in moving from its founding position of Arianism, has not moved into true orthodoxy. Instead of officially embracing an orthodox statement of ONE GOD in three persons, they have carefully crafted a statement that hides a belief in three "different" "gods". While they would never SAY they believe in three different dieties, in fact they function as if they do. They do not intuitively see Jesus as fully one with the Father, nor do they see the Spirit as fully a Person and fully one with the Father and the Son. While they may protest that they do understand God as a classical Trinity, in function they do not. Again, I'm reminded of a friend who recently left Adventism saying that as an Adventist she had believed in GOD (spoken with a large, full voice) and "Jesus" (spoken with a high-pitched, smallish voice) and "the holy spirit" (spoken with a squeaky, almost-not-there voice). From Arianism they have moved to functional tritheism. It's so interesting. And within this tritheism, the incarnate Jesus has no advantage we humans do not have. Further, He, like they believe about us, has no "spirit" apart from his breath, so his sinlessness is not because He is intrinsically alive in God, but because he managed to "keep the law". It's so interestingóand so revealing. Colleen | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1552 Registered: 7-2003 |
What I find so contradictory is that this religion that claims to have 'the truth' and to be the closest to Biblical out there thinks it needs to change anything. If they are God's remnant, why are they competing with apostate protestantism? It seems like so much contradiction so many levels! |
