| Author | Message | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 455 Registered: 11-2004 |
I know some SDAs will say you need to keep the Sabbath to be saved. However, many will say that keeping the Sabbath is a fruit of being saved. Others have said that we keep the Sabbath because we love God and if we stop keeping the Sabbath devotion to God is questioned. So, the SDA position is that they need to keep the Sabbath to maintain their salvation. In other words all Jesus did was to put them in right standing for that moment in time when they asked for forgiveness. They they have to go the rest of the way on their own power - well, I must say that an SDA will say that it wouldn't be on their own power but because God is in their heart helping them. I heard my Dad say once that people need to be saved everyday and the people who respond to the simple Gospel need to learn how to stay saved. That statement is hard to hear of course. When you talk to an Adventist about their salvation by works they think you are crazy. They will reiterate that salvation is ONLY by grace. It appears as though their definition of salvation is different from mine. They define salvation by grace as coming to God to ask forgiveness akin to the sacrificial system in the OT. They say that God will always save by grace when you ask for forgiveness after you sin. They feel that they will gradually become more perfect and should have no need to ask for forgivness by the time Jesus comes back. How do they not see that as salvation by works? There is PLENTY of room for a person to boast in his works in their view of salvation. What did Jesus do to an SDA? He made it possible for them to go to heaven. He made it possible for them to keep the 10 commandments. He forgives their sins whenever they ask Him. One SDA associate pastor once told his SS class "Our job is to make it to heaven". What a dismal and weak Gospel that is. What did Jesus do for me? He transferred me from darkness to the kingdom of the Son of His love. He became sin for me so I could become the righteousness of God. I am hidden in Him and when God looks at me He sees the righteousness of Christ. He made my spirit alive in Him and put His Holy Spirit within me. He guides me not by any written code or regulations, but by His Spirit. He forgave my past, present, and future sins and I have no more condemnation!! Plus, there is SO SO SO much more that He did!! | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 502 Registered: 4-2006  |
Amen to that brother, oh how subtle it is. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 418 Registered: 6-2006  |
U2, my SDA family believes in this perfection they think they can achieve. I've written before that my SIL told me with passion in her voice that she needs to become perfect so Jesus will come again. In other words, she (through the SDA church) has the ability to control when Jesus comes again through her own works. I still can't believe she said that to me with a straight face. I keep wanting to tell her (and all my family) that according to EGW, she's doomed! There's absolutely NO WAY of her being able to achieve perfection, and not only that, there's NO WAY that she'd be able to remember every sin that she's supposed to confess when she's stuck there "without a mediator". On the other hand Jesus said that the "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." Over and over in the NT the answer is to believe in Jesus and his saving gospel. Paul said "By this gospel you are saved" So according to what the Bible says, if you believe in Jesus you will be saved. Not "might" or even "maybe", but WILL! And there are no additions to "believe" either. God is not a church. God is God! No one should rely on any church for their salvation. There's no salvation in an organization, or a modern prophet, or "special truth". Salvation is in Jesus alone. Great thread!  Leigh Anne | ||
| Godssonjp Registered user Username: Godssonjp Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2007 |
I remember, some years ago in SS class, the question or topic came up; what is our purpose as man? What is our goal? The general consensus was our goal was to go to heaven. Just about everyone agreed. I raised my hand and said something to the effect of, Our goal shouldn't be to go to heaven, but, to please God and tell others about Him. That going to heaven is our reward for doing so. And if we're only trying to make it to heaven and have eternal life, then, we're not doing what God asks us to do. Which is to spread the Gospel because we love Him. I can't tell you how I felt when no one touched on or responded or elaborated on what I said. They just went back to how great it was going to be to make it to heaven. They missed the whole point. U2bsda quoted: "One SDA associate pastor once told his SS class "Our job is to make it to heaven". What a dismal and weak Gospel that is. I agree wholeheartedly. Just trying to make it to heaven isn't enough. I see it like this. When you were younger, maybe your parents gave you allowance for doing your daily chores. When you did your chores for the week, you got your full amount of allowance. When you did some or part of your chores, you may have gotten some or no allowance. After awhile, when you get older, you did your chores, not just because you knew you would receive your allowance, but because you knew your contribution to the household was important. Yes, you were looking forward to the reward for doing what you were asked to do, but you did it more so because your parents wanted/asked you to. You were confident that at the end of the week you would receive your reward. But you did it because your parents asked/told you to. The reward was a bonus to what was already being provided to you by your parents. God has promised us a reward that is guaranteed to us who love him and do His will. In the end, we will recieve our "allowance". | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 456 Registered: 11-2004 |
Godssonjp said "I remember, some years ago in SS class, the question or topic came up; what is our purpose as man? What is our goal? The general consensus was our goal was to go to heaven. Just about everyone agreed. I raised my hand and said something to the effect of, Our goal shouldn't be to go to heaven, but, to please God and tell others about Him. That going to heaven is our reward for doing so. And if we're only trying to make it to heaven and have eternal life, then, we're not doing what God asks us to do. Which is to spread the Gospel because we love Him. I can't tell you how I felt when no one touched on or responded or elaborated on what I said. They just went back to how great it was going to be to make it to heaven. They missed the whole point." Wow, maybe you and I were in the same class! I was not an Adventist at that point, but I was not in the position where I could join in the conversation for reasons I cannot elaborate here. That was the last SS class I will ever attend. Was it an associate pastor teaching the class? I'm guessing that class was about 6-7 years ago. I remember one person mentioning that our purpose isn't just to get to heaven but to take people with us. And the associate pastor quickly said something like "oh yes, take others with us" and then he went on. Sad, so sad. When you have your eyes on yourself and getting yourself ready you really miss out on the purpose of being here. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 419 Registered: 6-2006 |
"Sad, so sad. When you have your eyes on yourself and getting yourself ready you really miss out on the purpose of being here." Right on U2. My husband and I agreed upon teaching the kids that Heaven is just gravy. The best part is to be present with the Lord!! We try to show the kids how to have servant's hearts, share God's love, and most importantly, share the gospel. And if you're not teaching the gospel that the apostles taught, then it's not the gospel. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 461 Registered: 9-2006  |
Godssonjp said I can't tell you how I felt when no one touched on or responded or elaborated on what I said. They just went back to how great it was going to be to make it to heaven. They missed the whole point." I suspect you got no response simply because of the spiritual blindness. As colleen so aptly put is on another post. ìThe Gospel is obscured.î I suspect you were seeing things that were hidden from them. What made you make that statement; it appeared to me from just reading here that a lack of response caused you unrest in your own spirit. What were you seeing that they did not see? I would just like to know what makes the scales begin to drop off? What makes one see while others remain blind? River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3397 Registered: 3-2004  |
River, you asked "...what makes the scales begin to drop off? What makes one see while others remain blind?" I was blind until I saw that EGW was a false prophet and admitted it to myself and God. That was after I read all about her plagiarism and having others write for her. I was sitting here at my computer and remember thinking, I cannot go back to that church and support any kind of belief in that lady. When I said that to myself, I felt this burden lifted off my shoulders that I did not know was there. When I read the Bible after that I saw all kinds of things I had not seen before. I do not know about others, but that is when the veil was lifted for me. God is always awesome. Diana | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 73 Registered: 10-2006 |
River, "What makes the scales drop off?" When people start reading the Bible in prayer and Spirit. Not through the lens of a dead woman and a dead church. Steve | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 463 Registered: 9-2006 |
I know that there is no ìmagic wordî no ìMagic bulletî I can fire off and cause the scale to fall from their eyes. But when my friends are vocal about their great longing for Jesus to say to them ìSon, thy sins are forgiven theeî I hear that longing and their hearts cry, I hear it with my spirit and it is real. Especially one of the men, he is so earnest, so sincere but his Adventism and his belief in EGW keeps him from a belief in the finished work of Christ. Some of them I think are smug in their works I canít say I have a lot of feeling for that, but some arenít and itís the some arenít that get to me. I get to craving an ìAbracadbraî, I get fidgety when I hear it. I get to looking around for some magic easy fix. Now I know God hasnít brought me all this way to leave me helpless and hopelessly embroiled in this thing, help is on the way, if itís not already here. I know it is also he that will do the work, I do the speaking and praying and he does the work. But it gives me temporary relief to voice my frustrations to another human being such as your self. Thanks in advance for letting me unload on you folks this morning. (Slapping own face) ìI needed thatî River | ||
| Godssonjp Registered user Username: Godssonjp Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2007 |
River, What made the scales begin to drop off? For me, I was never really heavily entrenched in all of SDA doctrines. As I have posted before, my mother had given me a firm foundation before I joined the SDA church. Even though I was young then, I suppose there was already a sense of what our purpose was and what God expects of us. I was taught to read and study and find out for myself, so, when subjects such as these arise, I find out what God's word says and go with that. River said, "I suspect you were seeing things that were hidden from them" Sometimes, I think some, if not many SDAs, also see. But, their cognitive dissonance kicks in, and they reject what God is trying to show them. One thing that helps me the most is something I've been taught when I was young. That is, to know when the Holy Spirit is talking to me and learn to obey Him when He speaks. When I come across something in my life and I need guidence, clarity or confirmation, I listen to that small voice. Identifying the voice of the Holy Spirit and listening is what helps me. Even if it means changing what I think or believe. Looking back I can't say that I held onto some SDA beliefs at all. So, some "scales" never had to "fall off". I thank God for that. | ||
| Godssonjp Registered user Username: Godssonjp Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2007 |
One more thing... IMO, God gives us all opportunity to "see" Him for who He is. I believe he always drops signs and clues on how we can get to know Him more or better. I don't think people are always knowingly rejecting Him, but they reject His signs and clues because they want to believe that what they already believe is right. EGW doesn't leave you with much room to listen to "outside" influences. "Outside" referring to sources other than herself. | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 74 Registered: 10-2006 |
Godssonjp, "But, their cognitive dissonance kicks in, and they reject what God is trying so show them." This is the most dangerous part of legalism, the fleshly drive to have one's understanding and belief system perfectly intact, subdued, and complete and ratified. This condition makes it impossible to appreciate God's plan of salvation. The flesh first works out its own plan, then tacks on God's as an insurance policy. Problem is, this will never work. God's plan is only clearly embraced by the desperate seeker of Grace. There is no ownership of the method, it's a gift. What adventism doesn't get is that we are sinners and we cannot fix that, only repent and embrace Him for dear life. There's the Sabbath Rest right there! steve | ||
| Bobj Registered user Username: Bobj Post Number: 109 Registered: 1-2006  |
Steve and JP Well said! These last two posts, above, are classics! I hope everybody reads them! This has been a wonderful thread. Praise God! Bob |
