| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3309 Registered: 3-2004  |
I have been reading some other forums and some of the comments from them bother me. I get the feeling that the persons writing on these forums think we formers write on this forum to criticize adventism and bad mouth it. I know why I came here. I thought I was the only adventist who left adventism. I knew what the adventist church teaches of people who leave-we are lost unless we go back. So, when I found this forum I found a group of lovely people who felt the same anger at the deception pulled on us by the leaders of the church. They have known about it from day 1. It felt good to have some one else affirm what I felt and thought. It was not individuals I was angry at, it was the group that leads the church and who had led the church since its inception. My 12 step program taught me not to hang on to that anger, so I have turned it over to God. Personally, I do not have SDA family/friends who said all kinds of things that really hurt. But others of you have had that kind of experience. So, why am I here??? Why are you here??? For myself, I know what it is like to feel alone and I like to give another newcomer, to being a former, the love and encouragement, empathy, compassion and prayers all of you gave to me. You answered my questions, especially about how one becomes a Christian. I had read it in the Bible, but it was so good to hear it from so many people who had been through what I had been through. I have learned about things the adventist church does that I did not know as a member, like the deception with the prophecy seminars and stop smoking clinics. There was so much I did not know about EGW and what she said/wrote. I have thought, now that I am going into my third year as a full fledged Christian(I do not like calling myself a former SDA), that I would just like to forget adventism and concentrate on Christ and what He wants for me. BUT I am finding that what He wants for me is to be here to give comfort, encouragement, love, empathy, compassion and prayers to others who are leaving/transitioning out of adventism. As I am writing tears come to my eyes in memory of the anger/hurt I felt when I learned of the deception I had learned in all my year of SDA schooling. So, Why are you here??? Why do you keep coming back year after year, like myself for 3 years?? One thing that I have learned from my church and from here is that we have an awesome God and He is in charge, no matter what. Diana | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 690 Registered: 7-2004  |
Diana, I agree. The process of leaving can feel very lonely. Fortunately my wife and I made that journey together. But having others to "talk" with on this forum made me feel less alone along the way. If anyone wanted to do a count, very few of the posts here are strong criticisms of SDAism. Many are about people's experiences, their joys, their pain and their struggles. Certainly some of those pains and struggles are related to SDAism, but there is a need to talk with people who have walked down similar paths. Having people to chat with as we went through the process of finding a new church home was important. The advice and encouragement were something that few other "regular" Christians could provide. Because leaving SDAism for another church is not like changing from Methodist to Baptist or Baptist to a non-denominational. People at the new churches (even pastors) looked at as funny if we tried to explain anything. I continue to read and post here largely to stay in touch with people I've come to know (online and/or inperson) through the forum. And I hope that I can offer the occassional advice or explanation that helps someone else who is travelling down the same path. There are plenty of days where I would far rather put everything about SDAism behind me and simply focus on contributing in my new church home. And that is consuming more and more of my time. But I also can not allow my experience in SDAism to be wasted by not using what I have learned about it to warn others about the serious doctrinal errors and to encourage those who are experiencing the pain and struggle of leaving. | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 678 Registered: 10-2002  |
Confession -- I'm not exactly sure why I'm here.  Probably to talk, probably to share, probably to bless & be blessed, and probably just to be among people who understand some of what I've been through. We can support each other. It's a fellowship... sometimes you go just ...because? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5260 Registered: 12-2003  |
Great question, Diana. Rick, your experience sounds so much like what I have also experienced. I've found I can't just put my "Adventism" behind me and go on as if it didn't happen. God has been so faithful to me, and Richard and I also had that feeling of being alone as we transitioned out. There was so much we experienced that caught us off guard. We had no "normalizing" influence to help us know we weren't over-reacting. I'm here because I know how much it would have helped to have someone to "talk" to, someone to help me understand what to expect, someone to empathize and help ground me in reality when the guilt, doubt, and loss threatened to overwhelm me. This forum was never intended to be a place to dump on Adventism. It was always intended to be a place where people could come and find support, prayer, and Christ-centered insight as they questioned and transitionedóor as they dealt with their Adventist loved ones. It's impossible not to talk about the "dark side" of Adventism in a setting like this, because part of our journey is struggling with facing the "dark side". If we didn't experience and identify the deception, the shunning, the fear and guilt, etc, we wouldn't leave! Of course we have to talk about it. I'm here because I believe God has asked me to help others make the painful and de-stabilizing transition by heping to anchor them in truth and the unfailing faithfulness of Jesus. As a good friend of mine said to me just today, "Truth is a protection, but most people don't want to face it." God is faithful! Colleen | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 231 Registered: 11-2005 |
Lyrics from the "Cheers" Theme Song: "Making your way in the world today takes everything you've got. Taking a break from all your worries, sure would help a lot. Wouldn't you like to get away? Sometimes you want to go... Where everybody knows your name, and they're always glad you came. You wanna be where you can see, our troubles are all the same You wanna be where everybody knows Your name." That about says it for me...This is definitely a place where our "troubles are all the same" and we can have help and fellowship to help "give it all we got to make it through this world!" Of course, the "Cheers" theme falls short because the unity of the Spirit definitely beats out the unity of "alcohol" . | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 431 Registered: 11-2004 |
It has been over 8 years since I left Adventism and when I found this place several years ago it was very refreshing to know that I was not the only one who studied my way out of Adventism. All the other people I know are either Adventists or people who were never Adventists. Leaving the Adventist church is nothing like leaving a denomination because you have left your culture and identity behind. While I pray that I can encourage new people, this place is like therapy to me. This place is helping me deal with hurt and anger and the loss of my culture. For me, it was easy to ignore the hurt, anger, and loss and I did that for many years and have even been involved in ministry in my new found freedom in Christ. But the time comes when a person must deal with things like that. Loss of relationships has been difficult because I can no longer have anything but a surface relationship with my family. Within the last year I have been confronted with facts concerning a close family member that has lead me to believe they have been deliberately deceptive in teaching some Adventist doctrines. That has been difficult to deal with and I am still working that through. Something struck me last year when I was walking down my street. My spouse and I met a neighbor and as we were talking she found out that we were Christians and what she said really impacted me. She said with excitement "I'm a believer too!". Now, we didn't go to the same church at all. We were strangers a minute earlier, but in that moment she became my sister. It struck me because an Adventist would have NEVER said that to me. I have often looked at Adventism through rose-colored glasses, but I'm finding that I need to take them off and look at the dark side of Adventism to work through the pain, hurt, and disappointments. Thank you Colleen and Richard for providing a place for us formers. It is great having others to talk to who have walked the same footsteps. | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 351 Registered: 12-2004 |
Grace, Thank-you for the Cheers theme song. You are so right, in that this is a meeting place where we can gather and everybody knows our name. To take it a step further, we all know doubt envision what many of our new found friends are like, by what they say, and how they say it. This is a forum full of Cliffs, Norms, Fraziers, and Carlas. Everyone here is a character that we come to love despite our differences. It is a eclectic mix where we all love each other, despite our quirks and peculiarities. Thanks again Grace | ||
| Olga Registered user Username: Olga Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2005 |
While I don't post regularly, I do check in from time to time. It is encouraging to know about others and their stories about leaving Adventism; it is also quite comforting to have people like Colleen and long-timers here who keep the forum going on (I would feel 'kinda alone without it although I know Jesus is with me through the journey). Since I still get some doubts about several things 'Adventist' (especially when I check out other pro-Adventist forums/websites--my head actually spins when I do!!) this forum helps me by assuring me that I am not alone and by providing information plus encouragement to seek God through His word. Thank you Diana for the topic and thank you, Colleen and all of the forum members for hanging around and providing much needed information, support and prayers. God Bless!!!!!!!!! Olga | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 374 Registered: 9-2006  |
Diana Said: I have been reading some other forums and some of the comments from them bother me. I get the feeling that the persons writing on these forums think we formers write on this forum to criticize adventism and bad mouth it. _________________________________________________ Thatís a very good question Diana, why am I here? First I would like to address the above statement, I am not here to criticize and find fault with anyone and that includes adventist, I have too many of my own. I am not here to lie, cover-up, skim over, make lite of false doctrine, make excuses for false doctrine, refuse too confront false doctrine, softsoap and refuse too look at it for what it is. If I have too do that I just soon not be here. I have come down hard on Adventism at times too the point where I suspect it stings some of you formers whom I have come to love, respect and admire and would not want to hurt you in any way. If that sounds like I am attacking Adventism as a doctrine, well, I am. If it sounds like I am attacking Adventist, former Adventist or Adventist who are searching I am not! I am here to learn, I had taken it just about as far as I could on my own in my efforts to understand my Adventist friends, if I cannot understand them then I can have no hope at all In dealing with them. Eerily, I have gone through some of the same emotions and problems as most of you have, thank God that you were here and I have not had to go it alone. Now I just got off the phone with an Adventist, I pray with them, for them and their personal needs, the needs of their families, hear their hopes and dreams and disappointments, weep with them when they lose loved ones, just three weeks ago one of them got on the phone and he was weeping profusely, his first words îMY wife died last nightî all I could do is weep with him, itís about as real as it gets. A couple years back a dear lady Adventist friend got on the phone ìMy husband died last night, I donít know how I can face it without him, I donít have anybody too care for now heís goneî all I could do is weep with her but somehow it seemed to help a little bit, itís about as real as it gets. Just in a few days I expect to get a call that (name excluded) is gone and I will never hear his friendly voice again and he will be sorely missed. Thatís about as real as it gets. If that sounds like I am down on Adventist to some, those folks have a problem, not me. So Diana, you know who you are deep down where it counts, donít let it get too you, keep your chin up and continue to fight the good fight of faith, show mercy where mercy is needed, truth where truth is needed and so on. Tippy toeing and sliding around truth can help no one, but in accepting the things you cannot change, too change the things you can change and have the ìwisdomî to know the difference and the word ìwisdomî is a big deal, the Bible says that if we lack wisdom and we ask in faith believing he will give it too us. Proverbs says somewhere ìWith all thy getting, get understandingî, avoiding truth is refusal to understand, and confronting with acquired truth at the wrong time or place is also refusal to understand. Life happens second by second and minute by minute, I am fast coming to believe that my ìMinistryî if one could call it that, is sometimes just too carry out the garbage or run an errand for my wife or try to be sensitive to her needs, even the seemingly mundane things, yes I believe God has a wider plan for me but I am most of the time not privy to just what that is. And just three cheers for the ìCheersî song Snowboardingmom, Sometimes you want to go... Where everybody knows your name, and they're always glad you came. You pinned that down real good, sometimes the minister has a need to be ministered too. And sometimes all that takes is just being there. Thank you for you and you and you for being there. River | ||
| Aliza Registered user Username: Aliza Post Number: 145 Registered: 8-2006 |
When I found this forum several years ago I had already processed all the way out of Adventism doctrinally speaking. And I thought I had also processed through all the pain and agony of coming to recognize how wrong I had been. What I didn't realize was that I still needed to deal with some of the emotions as I'd done the typical Adventist thing of numbing out. What I still didn't realize was that my now ex- husband was going to chose Adventism over our marriage. We know the similarities we have to those leaving Mormonism or Jehovah Witnesses. It's truly the rare pastor, let alone average Christian, who can grasp what we've been through. When I started reading I learned nuances of my new faith from many of you here. I've had "aha" moments from people just sharing something. Since it was so useful to me, I've started posting because it is a support group. If it was just dumping on Adventism I wouldn't feel comfortable here even though I know lashing out in anger is a big piece of grief work. I guess I'm saying that when I post now, I try to be cognizant of the lurkers among us as well. I understand the upside down emotional devastation from first having those hints that something is seriously wrong. I understand what it's like for the lid to blow off the box where you've carefully stuffed all the cognitive dissonance over the years. I understand the guilt of feeling that formers are so warped that they can't gain truth from those who have turned to Babylon yet being drawn here in spite of that knife in your stomach. God is using this forum in a mighty, mighty way. I've learned here and I've attempted to share at least occasionally. Aliza | ||
| Cforrester Registered user Username: Cforrester Post Number: 67 Registered: 7-2004 |
Unfortunately, most Adventists are very misinformed of the true issues and the reality behind why "formers" become such. (I know I was) There is a general assumption that they (we) all leave due to some bitterness from bad experiences. This allows the message that formers have to be discredited without a hearing. If "they" are just a bunch of Adventist bashers, bitter, and critical then Adventists simply will not listen. Sad really. There is much more "bashing" and a terrible spirit found on revivalsermons. People here are quite pleasant, well informed, and generally normal. I come around to be informed on current issues, have a chuckle from time to time (I'm looking at you River ) and just enjoy nice commentary on a variety of topics. I will say, about the only people who have been able to relate to us have been some we met through Church who were in International Church of Christ for a long time. Our environments, stories, and experience leaving are very, very similar. Like Aliza says, rarely do pastors or anyone understand - they have sort of a blank, polite stare as you try to explain. | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 217 Registered: 3-2005 |
Good question! I come here to stay in touch with the fact that there are others out there facing the same issues as I am because of being a former SDA. I know that I'm not alone. Also, I know that my questions, feelings, etc are valid, and my choice to leave was based on Biblical Truth. As to the hurt feelings, anger, whatever that are said to be our excuse for leaving - to some degree there may be instances of that. In my case, the abuse and hurt, anger and confusion, were just the catalyst I needed to seek God rather than a denomination. It may have prodded my search, but in no way convinced me to leave. That was the hardest part to understand - that "my" church was not doctrinally correct! I then had a double burden - to deal with the abuse issues and also to deal with the loss of familiar surroundings and doctrine. Leaving was NOT the easy thing to do. I chose to leave because I could no longer stay in my known though uncomfortable surroundings, but had to step out in Faith to walk in the Truth with Jesus alone. Yes, I was angry at being misled, knowingly (by the denomination, not by the good individuals I know and love) kept in ignorance about the truth of EGW, and all the rest. But, my reason for leaving was the search for TRUTH, and to associate with others that also understand the simplicity of the Gospel. That is what I want others to know about why I left the SDA denomination. So, I come here to be understood by others that have faced similar situations, but mostly to be uplifted as we travel together on this wonderful Christian journey. -tisha | ||
| Godssonjp Registered user Username: Godssonjp Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2007 |
Others have said this already. I'll say it like this. I feel like I get Confirmation when I read a post and someone else is asking or comments on a topic that I may have questions about or share the same thoughts about. I take the time to read through old threads to find topics that I have missed because I know there are things that have been discused. Just reading through posts from everyone enlightens me and uplifts me. Everyone seems eager to share, not just their stories, but their "new" understanding that I am still learning. I appreciate the different "levels" of wisdom and knowlege that is here on this forum. I say this because, sometimes, people can come accross so knowlegable and I still may not get a clear understanding of what they're saying. But here, one "simple" post may help me to understand a more "complex " post. You don't know how much that has helped me. (Or maybe you do) Others that I know who have left adventism would rather just forget about adventism. I thought about it too. And even though I don't have any family (other than in-laws) left in the SDA church, I do have friends still in the church who have issues with some things. Now, even though I am not a preacher or teacher, I kinda feel the need to at least plant a seed or throw out something to them to get them to look for more than what they're seeing or looking for. You all, here, help me to build up sources and ideas to point them in the right direction. Thank you all for your posts as they have helped me on my journey out. P.S. I have been visting the forum on and off for about a year, before i joined, just reading posts and going to the links that have been posted. (I've been lurking for a while) | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 368 Registered: 8-2006 |
Hi everyone, I've thought many times about why I am still here after leaving Adventism in 1998. I'm here because while I lurked for many years, really there were only 2 people that I talked with in the process of leaving the SDA church. One was Dennis Fischer and we chatted online, and the other was Scott, the chaplain in the hospital where I worked who was also a former Adventist. Both these men were very helpful and supportive as I was dealing with the confusion, "aloneness", and doubts in leaving SDA. Since 2002, I have not had anyone to share with some of the lingering issues of Adventism. As Ric said, unless you are familiar with what truly is Adventism, if you mention about leaving, people either accept that statement at face value or they look at you like you have two heads. It's not a big deal unless you are talking about sects they are familiar with being heterodox or cultic (Mormons or JW's). I wasn't really angry or hurt, but I was confused about my wanting to leave on the one hand, and the fear of what leaving would mean on the other hand. I had the worry that I was leaving the "truth", even though I was discovering that the truth was NOT the truth. Coming here to read while I searched for another church, and learned the essential truths of Christianity, helped solidify the decision to leave for good. Now, I come for a couple of reasons. Here is a portion of something I posted in another thread about what I feel my part in the ministry of FAF is: "Here is my point of view about this Forum, for what it's worth. Being a former is not my main identity anymore. But, as with AA or Al Anon or any support group, people come in fresh with hurts, confusion, disappointments, and yes, even anger. They stay as long as they feel they need to, and then they move on. Some stay because they know they need that reinforcement for whatever reason, and those reasons are legion. Others stay because they want to help those new ones to navigate through the process of leaving their hurts and disappointments behind. That's how I see this forum as a CONTINUAL ministry, like those who come in off the street to a shelter. That being alert and ready is a huge part of what it means to minister to those coming out of Adventism. As another new poster said in another thread "I'm glad to know I wasn't the Lone Ranger". The confusing feelings when you leave Adventism must be validated. The complexity of deception and false doctrine in Adventism is a tightly woven tapestry. Everyone's experience is the same, yet different. Do I come because I'm bitter or hurt? No, I come because I have a shared experience with everyone". I also come to lend an ear, say a prayer, and share a burden. I also have to admit that I enjoy online communication. I used to chat in a Christian chat room, and belonged to an online Christian journaling group a few years ago. I am a member of another bulletin board about cooking, and since I have begun to post here, I have cut back posting there. There is only so much time, you see , and I think this board is a little more important in the grand scheme of things. It's all about having things in common. Susan | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 388 Registered: 6-2006  |
I find myself checking in here often. When I first discovered the forum I was thrilled to actually meet people who knew the ins and outs of Adventism, lived it, breathed it, and were able to make sense out of the confusion of it. Being a "never-been" married into a very active SDA family has been at times, an uphill battle. There has been a lot of hurt and condescention coming from people who believe they are the chosen and I am "lost". One morning out of frustration I prayed to the Lord and asked "Lord, are the Adventists right? Is this really the true church?" and that very day I found the forum. God directed me to you, to help me see Adventism through new eyes, and I'm so grateful. I have found comfort and validation, I've learned so much about the doctrines that confused me for so many years. You've helped me put the pieces of the SDA puzzle together! Now I feel like not only do I understand the church, but I understand my husband and his family so much better. There are still little episodes that come up, but now I'm better equipped to handle them. Also, it's nice to not take a lot of it personally like I used to. Where I thought my SDA family understood certain things about me and my faith, I know now that there's a pillar that prevents them from being able to. After spending time on FAF I actually know how to pray for them and about our situation. Before I'd be too afraid to even come to God about it. I'm glad I finally did. He's opened new doors for me! I thank God for all of you, for sharing your experiences with people like me. You truly feel like dear friends, even though we've never met in person. God bless you! Thank you for starting this thread, Diana. Leigh Anne | ||
| Susans Registered user Username: Susans Post Number: 369 Registered: 8-2006 |
((((((((((((Leigh Anne)))))))))))))) I just felt like giving you an online hug! Susan | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 375 Registered: 9-2006 |
Cforrester, you were saying: rarely do pastors or anyone understand - they have sort of a blank, polite stare as you try to explain. Funny you mention that SircforresterSir, I like to bounce off my Pastor certain Bible concepts at times and so I had dropped into his office after calling the other morning and was able to slip in for a few moments, I wanted to discuss the subject Gods word in general, the plumb line in particular and mentioned the struggle with SDA, He of course didnít understand, he reiterated to me of what he understood about Adventism, I said ìPastor that is not quite correctî and he seemed to genuinely want to know so I fixed him up a packet and stuffed it in a big envelope and sent it to his office this morning, whether or not he will read thru the 30 pages or so of data or not I donít know, but if he does, I bet I donít get another blank stare. I am curious as to what his reaction will be, he is a very busy man, he is chaplain to fire department as well as other duties. It maybe that he will make up his mind never to ask River another question! Diana, thanks for starting this thread. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3315 Registered: 3-2004 |
River, I know I have said it before, but I have given books my Ratzlaff, Martin and others to the senior minister of my church, to the minister of the church who rents their church to adventists here in Henderson and to various friends who want to know about adventists. I also found out that the local Baptist minister and his wife know all about EGW and the IJ and all the other abberrant SDA doctrine. If God had not directed me to my church, I could have have ended up at the Baptist church. I would have visited it eventually. Oh, the minister of the Spanish Baptist church knows about the aberrant SDA beliefs. I gave him a book also. God is so awesome. Diana | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 953 Registered: 4-2000  |
As Christians, we truly need each other. As former Adventists, we also need each other since we have a common background. I am so grateful for the many people who prayed for my wife and I as we transitioned out of Adventism in the late 1990s. Additionally, Sylvia and I are most thankful for the many former Adventist websites, chat rooms, and forums that existed even in the late 1990s. Information technology is a tool that enriches and empowers the lives of even the lowest social class in our society. The arrival of online religion is as consequential as when the printing presses brought the written word to medieval Europe. With religious literacy dramatically on the upswing, cyber-Christians find new appreciation for their personal freedom in Christ. Cyberspace affords us the priesthood of all believers--an equal playing field. While cyberspace is no equal substitute for in-person relationships, it does avail us of meaningful, worldwide Christian fellowship. The Internet was a significant and valuable tool in our quest for truth. God is good all the time! Dennis & Sylvia Fischer | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 376 Registered: 9-2006 |
Diana, So you live in Henderson, I was living in a high rise on Desert Inn Road when the Rocket fuel plant blew up, can't remember what year. Anyway two walls of my apartment were all glass, I happened to be standing looking through that wall at Henderson when the plant exploded and all I said was "Oh crap" as the blast wave headed toward me, luckily the wall absorbed the blast wave or it would have sucked me thru the wall and down eleven stories to the concrete below. The blast wave passed thru the glass wall and kicked me in the stomach. Felt like I had been kicked by old Fred the mule. Ha. |
