| Author | Message | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 495 Registered: 5-2002 |
Only 30 pages? Maybe they should title that one "Sabbathkeeping for Dummies". In my 'historic' SDA home, I likely would have required several shelves to contain the record of all the Sabbath rules that were applied. In SDAism, the Sabbath is like much of the other distinctive doctrines. Inconsistent and contradictory, yet essential to one's eternal salvation. Just like Ellen. The Sabbath apple didn't fall far from the false prophet tree did it? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 360 Registered: 9-2006  |
My Answer to Adventist. (Col 2:16 KJV) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (Col 2:17 KJV) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Col 2:18 KJV) Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, (Col 2:19 KJV) And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. (Col 2:20 KJV) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Col 2:21 KJV) (Touch not; taste not; handle not; (Col 2:22 KJV) Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? (Col 2:23 KJV) Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (Col 3:1 KJV) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. (Col 3:2 KJV) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. (Col 3:3 KJV) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. (Col 3:4 KJV) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. River | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 543 Registered: 7-2000 |
Yeah, but River, the SDA's just shake their head in pity at you as you don't know what those texts REALLY mean----and they have the truth that you need to know. Sigh......... Bill | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3292 Registered: 3-2004  |
That is precisely why we have the prayer circle every Friday at sundown and on Saturday afternoon at 1 PM, Pacific time. We need to pray for them and for ourselves that God use us in what ever way He sees fit to do. I know we pray more often for the SDAs we know and for the whole church in general. Let us just keep it up. Diana | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1676 Registered: 10-2004  |
The terms "spirit of the Law" and "letter of the Law" come from a misunderstanding of Romans 7. The fact is, there is no such thing as either "the spirit of the Law" or "the letter of the Law" mentioned in Scripture. Romans 7 contrasts THE LAW with THE SPIRIT (the Holy Spirit):
The Spirit = the indwelling Holy Spirit (the NEW covenant!), not some non-existent "spirit of the law" (old covenant)! In fact, the phrase "the Spirit" as used here in the Bible has nothing to do with the Law at all. The phrase is contrasted with the Law. "the letter" simply EQUALS "the Law." Paul makes the same contrast (the Spirit vs. the letter/Law) in 2 Corinthians 3:
Again, we see that "the letter" EQUALS the Law, and that the phrase "the Spirit" is referring to the New Covenant ministry of the indwelling Holy Spirit--it has nothing to do with the Law. So, there is no such thing as "the spirit of the Law" and "the letter of the Law." You either walk by the Spirit or the letter (the Law). Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on January 12, 2007) | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 782 Registered: 8-2004  |
Thank you Jeremy! Living in the Spirit doesn't bring us to a broader list of 'thou shalt not'. It is not a new layer piled on top of the letter of the law somehow (not saying anyone here meant that), it is a whole other thing. Life in the Spirit is a living positive, a life of embracing the things of God instead of focusing on what to avoid. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1677 Registered: 10-2004 |
Here is the direct link to the SDA church's official "Guidelines for Sabbath Observance," mentioned by Dennis: http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/other_documents/other_doc6.html Jeremy | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 677 Registered: 10-2002  |
Thank you, Jeremy! (for the clear comments about the "spirit of the law" idea) ***** It's a sad reflection, but I remember that many Adventists' attitudes toward Jews were more charitable than attitudes toward Protestants. We felt like they were still salvagable because they kept Sabbath... but Christians were more deceived, like apostates. The comments in this thread remind me of the lack of joy I and most people I knew had when we heard that someone had accepted Christ. That wasn't quite enough to fully rejoice in. There was a pause and we would wonder, "But have they accepted the Sabbath?" (Message edited by agapetos on January 12, 2007) | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1678 Registered: 10-2004 |
From the above link:
Notice how they worship "the spirit of the Sabbath"! Also, notice that they are "forbidding marriage," which is a doctrine of demons (1 Timothy 4:1-3). And here is what they say about funerals:
Jeremy | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 361 Registered: 9-2006 |
Good morning Vietnam!! Welcome to the war river!! A war that is shadowy and subtle, where you canít tell the enemy from the population, he comes out, you fire off a few rounds and he goes back in his hole only to pop up some other place. Fire one! I give him the word and he says that is not what it means. Back in his hole. Fire 2! I testify of salvation thru personal experience and he will quickly agrees, but thatís not what it means either. Back in his hole. Fire on full auto! I tell him I have already been saved according to the word and he just looks at me with pity, missed again. I go out on ambush and canít engage him because he is snug in his spider hole with the Sabbath pulled over him eatin EGW rat meat. He pops up and I fire off a few rounds of word and he says, Yeah but you need the ìtruthî, back in he goes. Missed again. Its not that I am such a bad shot, he is like an apparition, he stays in the steamy thick jungle of Adventism, crawls through the vines of works and sneaks through his foliage of deceit, comes out to fire off a few rounds of false doctrine and again disappears into vague high grass of Sabbath keeping. What do I get? Good grub, letters from home (Jesus, Paul, Peter and John) keeps me in letters of encouragement (ìkeep your chin up old son!î and I get to go choppering around getting shot at. Lone says: Yeah, but River, the SDA's just shake their head in pity at you as you don't know what those texts REALLY mean----and they have the truth that you need to know. Sigh......... Ya got that right lone. SighÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖ Is it any wonder that we sound a little irritable at times? Ever time we fire off a few rounds somebody Pops up and yellís we are killing with friendly fire. Why do we fight? Ainít much else to do when you find yourself smack dab in the middle of a kill zone! A battle for hearts and minds. You folks think this little metaphor is stretching it a bit? River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3294 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have never heard it told like you do, but then you are coming from a different perspective, a "never been". Yet you understand adventism very well. Diana | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 385 Registered: 6-2006  |
This is what stuck out to me - *** Sabbath - A Safeguard of Our Relationship With God The Sabbath encompasses our entire relationship with God. It is an indication of God's action on our behalf in the past, present, and future. The Sabbath protects man's friendship with God and provides the time essential for the development of that relationship. The Sabbath clarifies the relationship between God and the human family, for it points to God as Creator at a time when human beings would like to usurp God's position in the universe. In this age of materialism, the Sabbath points men and women to the spiritual and to the personal. The consequences for forgetting the Sabbath day to keep it holy are serious. It will lead to the distortion and eventual destruction of a person's relationship with God. When the Sabbath is kept, it is a witness to the rest that comes from trusting God alone as our sustainer, as the basis of our salvation, and as the ground of our hope in the future. As such, the Sabbath is a delight because we have entered God's rest and have accepted the invitation to fellowship with Him. When God asks us to remember the Sabbath day He does so because He wants us to remember Him. *** Where did Jesus go? To me it looks like they're saying that the Sabbath is their Savior, sustainer, safeguard. The Sabbath has completely taken the place of Jesus here. His name isn't even mentioned. Sigh. Leigh Anne | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2006 |
Which is worse Diana, "never been" or "wishI'dneverbeen"? River, while you're enjoying the good grub of the Gospel, make sure you watch out for the Judaistic vipers that Jesus countered. I got bit once - it's some nasty poison! Thank God Jesus is our Antitoxin! Shiverin Steve in Denver | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3295 Registered: 3-2004 |
Steve, LOL I don't think of the worse, I am just glad I am where I am now. I have to admit, I am glad I was raised SDA 'cause then I recognize error lots easier, having been raised in it. I also do not have to learn a new vocabulary like River has had to do. Like you I am thankful God is our antitoxin. Diana | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 544 Registered: 7-2000 |
I go out on ambush and canít engage him because he is snug in his spider hole with the Sabbath pulled over him eatin EGW rat meat. ------------------------------------------ River, you've hit the nail on the head. Best analogy I've seen. Yes, they are very comfortable in that little spider hole they've made.... Bill | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 364 Registered: 9-2006 |
Thats what stuck out to me Leigh Anne, where did Jesus crop up in their guidelines? It seems to me they lost the cross but friend, they better find it in a hurry. one of my Adventist acquaintances just has three weeks to live according to the Doc and he's done already used up a week and a half of that. Is he saved? I truly don't know, there is many things I don't know but I just can't help but wonder. Keep your chin up. River | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 205 Registered: 7-2005  |
Quoting from the Adventist link Dennis shared: "Any attempt to regulate Sabbath observance beyond Biblical principles by developing lists of Sabbath prohibitions will be counterproductive to a sound spiritual experience." They got that part right. They could have just left it at that and not writted all the rest of that article. I have some SDA friends who are originally from Norway. They tell me that back in Norway, they know an Adventist couple that had a huge fight over how to keep the Sabbath. The wife thought one should go from midnight to midnight. The husband thought it should be from 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. Remember that in northern Norway, there is no sundown for up to six months of the year, so they can't use the actual sunset event to start their Sabbath observance. Also, my Norwegian friend had visited Israel in the sixties. He said that in Israel, the sun went below the horizon at exactly 6:00 p.m. every single day of the year. He said it was just like turning off a light switch, going from light to dark as quickly as snapping your fingers. These Adventist people may not have realized it, but their giving me this information was like nailing the lid on the coffin of my adherence to Adventist Sabbath doctrine. I had wondered for a long time how the fourth commandment could still be binding for all mankind, in the same way that the other nine commandments are. I had a vague awareness of people living in far northern latitudes, but I had never met any Adventists who lived there. They helped make it very obvious that OT Sabbath observance can't possibly be implemented as written in all places and at all times. Then, the day I heard the recording of Dale Ratzlaff speaking at last year's Former Adventist Weekend was the clincher. He shared how Jesus had literally broken the Sabbath, as told in John 5, when he healed the lame man at the pool of Bethesda, telling him to take up his mat and walk. The gospel writer used the words, "Jesus was breaking the Sabbath," in present continuous tense, as if to say "kept on breaking the Sabbath." Then Ratzlaff said, if the Sabbath is a moral law, then Jesus can't be our sinless Savior, because he broke it. That settled it for me, once and for all. It's as plain as day! Honestwitness | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 365 Registered: 9-2006 |
Shadows of things to come is a very interesting concept, some times called types and shadows, I have noticed this in the, shall I say ìGreat Bible storiesî. Take for instance in Egypt before exodus, the blood had to be applied to the door post and the death angle would Passover, the blood is applied to the door post of our hearts that we should not see the second death. During the flood the ones being saved were shut in, we are shut in with Jesus and the waters of life cannot overflow us. The Sabbath rest of old where they rested from their works, we have rested from our works and are in continuous rest in our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. Jesus is that Sabbath of rest now and forevermore. (Mat 11:28 NIV) "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. His blood protects, shuts in, comforts. He is our Ark of safety and rest. Anything I missed? River | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 159 Registered: 7-2004 |
I was taught that you can dice and slice to prepare a salad for Sabbath lunch, but if you popped a potato in the oven to bake it was breaking the Sabbath because EGW said "no baking". That is too funny! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3299 Registered: 3-2004 |
Bb, I forgot all those details. There are so many and I am not a detail oriented person. Thank you God, that you have taken care of all of us and have brought us into your bigger fold of Christianity. You are so awesome. Diana |
