| Author | Message | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 390 Registered: 6-2006  |
Hi Friends, Recently my BIL and his father (my FIL) had an argument regarding competition. My BIL's kids go to an SDA academy where they have competitive sports. (This is in the desert area of Southern Cal) My niece and nephew play on a team and are very good. The argument came when their dad asked his dad "why don't you come and cheer the kids on?" To which my FIL replied "I don't believe in competitive sports in the SDA schools, and I won't support it." My BIL was very disappointed, as were the kids. Funny thing too, my BIL is an associate pastor at his church. This was pretty typical of my FIL. I love him but he is a real EGW follower. It's really sad that he won't even support his grandkids out of love for them. This got me to thinking, I'm pretty sure I've read about competition in EGW's writings, but I don't ever remember reading anything in the Bible, pro or con regarding competition. Does anyone have scripture regarding this? I pray God will set my FIL (and the rest of our family) free from this awful SDA bondage. Leigh Anne | ||
| Brian3 Registered user Username: Brian3 Post Number: 74 Registered: 8-2005 |
http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/gateway.dll/egw-comp/section00000.htm/book00062.htm/chapter00144.htm#1 | ||
| Brian3 Registered user Username: Brian3 Post Number: 75 Registered: 8-2005 |
MR No. 367 - Competitive Sports in Adventist Schools http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/gateway.dll/egw-comp/section12951.htm/book13230.htm/chapter13250.htm#1 | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 496 Registered: 5-2002 |
My Uncle chimes in on the subject here: http://circle.adventist.org/files/jae/jae198851010301.pdf | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 379 Registered: 9-2006  |
Heaven forbid a kid getting into gym shorts and getting some exercise, wipe that smile off your face you little brat "Spat" "Boink" here put on the mule face a mine, God might condemn you fer smilin likat. here eat a persimon, its goooood fer ye.  | ||
| Stevendi Registered user Username: Stevendi Post Number: 53 Registered: 10-2006 |
Maybe we can introduce some liberals endorsing outcome-based education to EGW. They'd like her for shore. Nobody wins, nobody loses. Whilst we at it, why not toss in suma dem dere PITA folks too, day'd be plumb nuts bout ol' Ellen. Long as they dasn't catch er nibblin on no pork rinds. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 392 Registered: 6-2006 |
It's no wonder that you're happy that you're Freeatlast!! What a depressing, dour article. (no offense to your Uncle personally) Brian, thanks for the links. I knew that I had seen it before - it just still makes absolutely no sense to me. River, it's true! It seems as though Adventism turns the most innocent things into something we should be ashamed of, or at the most an abomination of God. Give me a break! Is there ANY Biblical basis to this subject?? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 384 Registered: 9-2006 |
Not that my poor brain can come up with Grace_alone, course my wife always say "are you outa yer mind?" So there apparently is some question on that. if I ever come up with text on kids playing in the Gym or out on the ball field I'll write to you personal so the word don't get out. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5269 Registered: 12-2003  |
Leigh Anne, I know of no Biblical reason for the non-competitive stance of traditional Adventist education. Of course, they bend those rules for things like choir and band workshops, internal competition for grades at school, etc. When I was young, Adventist schools did not compete with others. The most they did was compete internally (Intramural games). (Go figure.) By the time I was near the end of high school, some of the academies were beginning to have basketball competitions with each other. It was hotly disputed, but the trend prevailed. Somewhere between my teaching at Gem State Academy in the late 70's-early 80's and the late 90's when I taught at Arrowhead Christian Academy (ACA), the old prohibitions were practically tossed out, at least in So Cal. As you are aware, Adventist academies not only compete among themselves now, but they are members of inter-school leagues. ACA teams regularly competed with Loma Linda Academy and Mesa Grande Academy. The only thing the Adentist school wouldn't play, however, was football. Other sports were OKóas long as the competition games were NOT held on Friday night. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 385 Registered: 9-2006 |
The reason for not allowing football. The football is made of pig skin. That might lead to munching on pork rinds. River | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3327 Registered: 3-2004  |
River, LOL Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5270 Registered: 12-2003 |
Actually, River, the true prohibition is against even touching a pig. I didn't actually understand that until Richard explained that the reason his mother had no interest at all in "meeting" our neighbors' friendly little pot-bellied pig on the other side of our back fence was that they were unclean and should not be touched. I totally understood they were "unfit" for food, but my dad, who grew up raising and showing bulls at the state fair in Minnesota, loved all livestock. He used to tour my sister and mom and me around the animal pens at the Oregon state fair, commenting on the relative merits of each. I distincly remember him grinning and commenting that there was nothing cuter than a piglet. I guess I didn't get the full impress of the uncleanliness of those poor beasts. The prohibition against football, however, seemed to be more about being "violent" than "unclean". When I was in school, the guys played flag football, but touch football was OUT. Colleen | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 393 Registered: 6-2006 |
Colleen, this is basketball, it certainly doesn't interfere with Sabbath, and obviously it's supported by the school. (It might be part of the CIF system, if I'm not mistaken) I can respect that Dad wants to stand firm to his beliefs, however his faithfulness is to EGW and not to what the Bible has to say (or not say) about it. He's alienating his own son and grandkids over an outdated, victorian, unbiblical standard. When my husband told me the story he was just as upset and angry as his brother. Hopefully he'll see more and more how rediculous the legalism is. *&%$#(@*%!! (Excuse my french)  Leigh Anne Funny about the pigskin. Did the SDA church completely miss out on Peter's vision and God's message? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 3329 Registered: 3-2004 |
Leigh Anne, that is good old fashioned English and I understand that very well Diana | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 386 Registered: 9-2006 |
Colleen and all: I was just horsing around about the Pigskin, yesterday was one of those days when I took a day off from being serious. Some days I just have to take a break from thinking serious stuff and just be happy, it was no particular day too feel so happy, it was snowy and cold and just a day too remain indoors, I was just bubble over happy, canít explain it. I am attempting a very serious article about the very real dangers of cults to people that follow their erroneous ways. Maybe I will post it when I am done. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 387 Registered: 9-2006 |
You know I find it really amazing how I do believe I have grown spiritually since coming to this forum, it has changed me, I cannot explain exactly how and I canít really put it down to any one thing. Now that is an amazing fact for you, eat your heart out Doug Bachelor. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 394 Registered: 6-2006 |
River, I like the "horsing around about the pigskin." You've got the whole barnyard theme going on... :D | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 209 Registered: 7-2005  |
I Cor 9:24, "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain." If Paul thought that participating in competitive sports were wrong, he'd have the perfect opportunity in this chapter to tell us so. In fact, though, he uses competition to show us a spiritual principle. River, I love your humor. Thank you so much for making me laugh. Sometimes I get way too serious about all this stuff. Honestwitness | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 388 Registered: 9-2006 |
Paul apparently was familiar with some sort of boxing (1 Cor 9:26 KJV) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: apparently he was describing a fighter that is unable to make contact with his opponent, so we are the same as he if we use the word skillfully so that we accomplish our mission, Adventist just end up beating at the air. no hits, no runs. Play ball!! River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 390 Registered: 9-2006 |
A cats view. Something called an Adventist grabbed me and brought me here. Day 683 of my captivity: My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little songs. They secretly and furtively much pork rinds, while the other inmates and I are fed disgusting broccoli or some sort of dry nuggets. Although I make my contempt for the rations perfectly clear, I nevertheless must eat something in order to keep up my strength. The only thing that keeps me going is my dream of escape. In an attempt to disgust them, I once again vomit on the floor. Today I decapitated a mouse and dropped its headless body at their feet. I had hoped this would strike fear into their hearts, since it clearly demonstrates what I am capable of. However, they merely made condescending comments about what a "good Adventist Cat" I am. The audacity! There was some sort of assembly of their accomplices tonight. I was placed in solitary confinement for the duration of the event. However, I could hear the noises and smell the food. I overheard that my confinement was due to a power called EGW" I must learn what this means, and how to use it to my advantage. Today I was almost successful in an attempt to assassinate one of my tormentors by weaving around his feet as he was walking. I must try this again tomorrow -- but at the top of the stairs. I am convinced that the other prisoners here are flunkies and snitches. The dog receives special privileges. He is regularly released - and seems to be more than willing to return. He is obviously retarded! The bird has got to be an informant. I observe him communicate with the guards regularly. I am certain that he reports my every move. My captors have arranged protective custody for him in an elevated cell, so he is safe....... For now... They tried to baptize me but I escaped, I overheard one say to the other, we must go out and get more, our numbers are dwindling, I think they will try to stick me in the oven next unless they find someone else. They took me down to this big building and shut all the doors on me, I immediately vomited up several hair ballís between these long rows of boards. I overheard them talking about getting rid of something called an elder while I was there, said he was a troublemaker, I do what I can too make trouble and they pick him, go figure, they said he was not one of them anymore, what am I, Swiss cheese? Now where did I lay that mouse? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5280 Registered: 12-2003 |
River, interesting persepctive. From your position of having observed Adventists and tried to understand where they were "coming from" for quite some time, I find you're "cat's view" interesting. The thing I would probably say, from my perspective of having been inside, most Adventists don't really see themselves as trapped in a foreign environment. While there may be exceptions, my sense is that most people who actually become Adventist (not to mention those who are born into it) actually think they are someplace desirable. They are somehow "special" because of the "truth" they have embraced. Uncomfortableómaybe. Held against their willónot really. It's quite a schizy position. But I do believe most Adventists are quite loyal, even if they are angry or disenchanted. it's a bit confusing to "insiders"óand to close "outside" observers, it's probably downright mystifying. Interesting ponderings. Colleen | ||
| Lrcrabtree Registered user Username: Lrcrabtree Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2007  |
When I was in Rio Lindo Academy in the early '70s there was absolutely no interscholastic competition of any kind. Not even scholastic or music. All the competition was strictly between the different grades within the school itself. Imagine my surprise when my Junior High kids began playing against SDA Junior Academies in the Sacramento area last year!! I was aghast. However, now that I'm observing, I notice that there are several SDA schools in the various leagues that my children's school are in. My how things have changed from what I was taught and truly believed. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 393 Registered: 9-2006 |
Well Colleen, I am complimented that you took my ěCats Viewî ponderings seriously, however it was meant to be funny, it had nothing to do with my views. I promise I will straighten up and fly right. Scouts honor!! I know this is a serious forum and work is being done in peoples lives and I donít make lite of that and I do pray for and support the forum. River Foot In Mouth | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5283 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hey, River, I knew you were kidding...in fact, I thought twice before responding at all. In fact, as I clicked "post", I thought to myself, "I'll probably come across as completely humorless!" I responded mostly because I know (don't ask me how!) that there are some who would likely feel offended rather than amused just because they're too close to be able to laugh. But you have great clarity as well as humoróand please don't stop making us laugh when you are laughing! Colleen |
