| Author |
Message |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5285
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 3:08 pm: |     |
Adrian, it's good to see you here again and to "see" you in your picture! It's good to hear things are going well for you.
Drop by any time! We love hearing from you!
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3342
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 6:48 pm: | |
Adrian,
Thanks for stopping by. We like to hear from you.
You are welcome any time.
Diana |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 228
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 10:39 pm: | |
Thank you all for the welcome,
I have to go to Budapest today to examine some Bible college students, but I will write a bit of an undate when I get back.
God bless,
Adrian |
Susans
Registered user
Username: Susans
Post Number: 376
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 7:38 am: | |
Melissa,
Thank you for your honest, heartfelt post above, and thank you for being here. I also read all your posts and appreciate your spiritual insights. Your presence here (as well as other never-been SDA's) affirm us as well. We are here as brothers and sisters in Christ and bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ.
I think you are correct in that much of what passes for sincerity is manipulation. Much "friendship" is motivated by the ulterior motive of evangelizing. And when that evangelizing is unsuccessful, boy does the "friendship" change! You are no longer a "potential", but an enemy. It's sad.
Susan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5296
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 6:47 pm: | |
Oh, Susanóso well said: "I think you are correct in that much of what passes for sincerity is manipulation. Much "friendship" is motivated by the ulterior motive of evangelizing. And when that evangelizing is unsuccessful, boy does the "friendship" change! You are no longer a "potential", but an enemy. It's sad. "
You totally summed up the reality. I remember feeling that way!
Colleen |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 960
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, January 21, 2007 - 10:41 am: | |
Speaking of sincerity, I learned a lesson about it early in life. After preaching a sermon in a SDA country church in North Dakota, I was immediately asked by an Adventist lady if I would like to come to her house for lunch (actually, it was known as "Sabbath dinner"). German people have alot of hospitality and whoever got the preacher to dine at their table for Sabbath dinner was always considered a special honor to them. It also made them look good to other Adventists. I generally had a habit of accepting the first invitation.
The middle-aged lady told me to simply follow her car to her farmhouse. She lived all alone several miles from the church, and I soon discovered that she had not prepared anything for Sabbath guests to eat. So, she busied herself peeling raw potatoes and other tasks to finally come up with a presentable meal. The meal preparation seemed to take her forever (smile). Obviously, my accepting her invitation must have surprised her. People are not always sincere in what they say or do. Maybe this taught her a lesson.
Dennis Fischer |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 229
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 11:02 am: | |
I finally want to get round to writing something here.
I am still in Hungary, and still busy: leading church, teaching Bible College, teaching English, translating and proofreading. Gets rather hectic at times.
For this coming semester, I have been given a lot more to teach at Bible School. It is still systematic theology, but I will have more subjects. Besides Christology and Soteriology, I will be taking Cosmology, Anthropology and Hamartiology this term, so I have quite a lot to prepare - that is doctrines of Christ, salvation, creation and nature, man and sin, for those who can't cope with the Greek :-)
I really love it, and love doing the research and study for it. I feel really privileged to have been asked to do it, particularly as there are so few opportunities here- either to teach or to study.
I have heard there are only 7 Evangelical Bible colleges in the whole of Hungary, and that may well include the 2 Adventist ones, because everyone thinks they are evangelical, apart from this pain of a Brit that keeps trying to tell them differently.
More later,
God bless,
Adrian |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5338
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 11:20 pm: | |
Adrian, how wonderful that you are teaching and prepping for such wonderful subjects. And I'm awfully grateful that "this pain of a Brit" persists in telling the truth about Adventism!
Welcome back.
Colleen |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 968
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Monday, January 29, 2007 - 6:33 am: | |
Adrian,
Best Christian wishes as you teach these important classes. I am grateful that you are exposing the captor(s) and preparing students to evangelize the captives.
Dennis Fischer |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 231
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 11:53 am: | |
Thanks Colleen, Dennis,
Itís always nice to drop in.
I just wanted to mention, I checked in on the Hungarian apologetics site the other day for some reason, and I see they have some new material on Adventism. The address is:
http://www.apologia.hu/
just in case anyone can read Hungarian (fat chance, huh?)
Anyway, I met the guy who runs the site about three or four years ago, something in connection our Bible School courses. He does cult research full time and has material on a few different groups. For instance, he has written a thick tome on Jehovahís Witnesses. According to the info, he now has someone working with him who attended the Sola Scriptura Bible College, the same one my friend Gyula went to, but he realised the errors of Adventism and has written some material about it.
I checked out his article on the college, and I was pretty impressed:
http://www.apologia.hu/religion/sda-sol
He mentions about how the college advertises itself as for interdenominational studies, but then proceeds to teach Adventism. He points out some of the errors he spotted, including the fact they teach Ellen White as scripture and a way of salvation involving faith plus works. He also said they only mention they are Adventist in one small sentence in the advertising bumph, but do not make a big deal about it (until you get there). On the other hand they mention in their statement of purpose, that the main reason for their activities is for ìevangelism.î I think I have figured by now what that word means to an Adventist!
In the article he proceeds to point out a few of the differences between Evangelical Christianity and Adventism, and says he examined these ìtruthsî using the methods they taught him, and ended up rejecting them.
He finishes off: - I translate ñ
ìI can only recommend Sola Scriptura College on the two following conditions:
1. If the student has a strong denominational background and conviction which would allow him to take this kind of ìtheological excursionî (though I would then ask, why does he not attend the Bible School of his own denomination?)
2. If he has sufficient Bible knowledge to allow him to judge the study materials (though the reason the majority apply is that they lack this).
If these conditions are not fulfilled, most of those who attend the College will soon find themselves knocking on the door of Adventism.î
Well, I was really happy with this, and was just about to write them an E-mail congratulating them on the material, but I thought I would also check the section entitled, ìWhat you should know about Adventism.î
Well, there is some good material here too, but right in the middle they make a special point of stressing: again, I translate ñ
ìAs we consider the Adventist denominations to be Christian churches, in spite of all differences of opinion, we should like to emphasise that it is not our goal:
1. To get current Adventists to leave their denomination, as their local assemblies, in spite of all critical differences, are Christian fellowships, where they can serve Christ and his people;
2. To reinforce the unfortunate current Adventist tendency to perceive mere theological criticism as the persecution they expect to suffer in the last days;
3. For the results of our research to have a negative influence on the church or personal relationships of non-Adventist Christians with Adventists.î
Well, they took the wind out of my sails a bit. I guess they are trying to be tactful and please everybody. I still felt I should write and say something, but I am not really sure what to say. I have basically come to the conclusion that based on all the evidence, Adventism has to be regarded as a cult, as least historical Adventism.
I would be grateful for any thoughts,
Adrian |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3393
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 5:29 pm: | |
Adrian, I could think of all kinds of things to say, but it would not be complimentary to SDAs, so I will pray for you, that God will give you the words to say.
He will do that as he has promised. He is always awesome.
Diana |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5351
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 30, 2007 - 5:59 pm: | |
Well, Adrian, I agree. And I also understand your "wind out of the sails" feeling. There really is a disconnect between the warning not to attend the school and the disclaimer that the local assemblies of Adventism are Christian, and that they are not trying to have a negative influence on the church because of their resesarch.
That reluctance to take the evidence of heresy to its logical conclusion is one of the most frustrating conundrums I encounter. People may be quite willing to say certain doctrines are not biblical, but they are completely reluctant to think through the conesequences of those doctrines or to observe the practices and convictions of the people.
For some reason the fact that Adventists can articulate the "right words", fogs out many Christians' ability to analyze or think Biblically about the subtext and the behaviors of Adventism. It is really frustrating to me.
If you feel like you should write, I hope you will. The fact is that Christians tend to want to be tactful about Adventism out of fear of besmirching other brothers and sisters in Christ. Whether or not individual Adventists know Jesus, the denomination does not embrace true Christianity, and the fact that some Adventists know Jesus in some way is a result of God's intervention. They come to know Him IN SPITE of Adventism.
Adventism obscures the gospel, and many people are kept from hearing the truth because they hear Adventism instead.
Colleen |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 232
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 4:55 am: | |
Dear Colleen,
Thanks for your reply. I havenít written my letter yet, but something else has happened.
I recently ran into the editor of the denominational magazine while I was at the Bible College, and although we donít know each other very well, he asked me if I would be willing to write some articles for publication. Well, I have written quite a few studies on theological matters, and as I didnít have time to write anything specially, I picked out a couple and sent them off. Just about creation and the Christian life, nothing too provocative.
When he wrote back, it turned out the papers would be more suitable for the magazine for church leadership, not for the general membership, so he wants to publish them in that. However, one of the ones he has marked out is a study I did on the Adventist view of the Sabbath. I wrote this ages ago, when I was studying Adventism to help Gyula, and I did not even send it off to him, so he must have got hold of it some other way.
Anyway, even though this may cause a bit more of a stir, I am glad it has been chosen, as it will certainly make people more aware of Adventism, so hopefully church leaders wonít recommend their folks to go to the Sola Scriptura Bible College, or even go themselves.
My general impression of people in this denomination is that they have no idea about what Adventism teaches but they think it is OK, and also, they have no idea of the covenants or what the Sabbath actually means.
God is certainly doing some amazing things in my life at the moment!
So.
I would appreciate your prayers here. Not necessarily for me, but so that what I wrote will be properly understood as the Lord wills.
Thanks for all your support over the years.
God bless,
Adrian
|
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 3413
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 6:56 am: | |
Doc,
God is using you to reach many people with that article. I will remember you in my prayers.
Diana |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 5372
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 11:06 am: | |
Adrian, I will also pray for you and for God to speak through your articles. I feel a sense of awe, sometimes, when I realize how God really is teaching the truth about Adventism to many people who have never been Adventist but who love Truth, and He is using all of you to help teach the truth to people we who have been "inside" would never meet.
Keep us posted, Adrian.
Colleen |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 233
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 11:52 am: | |
Diana and Colleen!
Thanks again! I was telling people at the house group last night about the differences between Adventism and Evangelical Christianity, and they were really shocked - by, like, the Sabbath and the mark of the beast, the scapegoat and the IJ.
I'll just keep on trying to do my bit :-)
God bless,
Adrian |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 235
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 5:54 am: | |
OK, update again.
Unfortunately things did not go smoothly with the magazine article after all!
In the end, two of the other articles I sent (nothing to do with SDA) were published, but not the one on the Sabbath.
The editor (Csaba) said that some others on the editorial board were not happy with it, as it might cause offense, but they would publish the other two articles. Well, I was pleased to get some stuff published, which I consider a privilege, but on the other hand I was a bit disappointed.
The next time I saw Csaba, he apologised again about the situation. He said he did not think there was any problem with my article, but he was voted down. He has asked me to send some more stuff for publication, however, and he also said that the Sabbath really is an issue that needs to be dealt with.
Basically, this seems to be a church politics problem, and I am never good at dealing with church politics. Anyway, I guess I am going to have to rewrite the article in a way that presents the Sabbath in the light of the new covenant, without digging at SDAs too much.
I would appreciate your prayers. I also think the Sabbath, and the new covenant, needs to be dealt with much more clearly than it has been.
God bless,
Adrian |
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