| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2835 Registered: 3-2004  |
When I read in Deuteronomy about what the COI could do with their tithe, at the Lord's suggesstion, I was amazed. What part of the text do they not understand to put that interpretation on it??? It is blasphemous. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4655 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jeremy, thanks for those quotes. As I read this thread and write, I am listening to Doug Batchelor in the background via internet giving a sermon on "health" at the big evangelistic outreach at Pioneer Memorial Church. There really there is nothing they won't do to try to convince people that God's will is for people not to eat meat, etc. Adventist health arguments are doctrines of demonsóand I'm offended that Batchelor would use a 100+-year-old tortoise (vegetarian) to convince me I should not eat meat in order to live longer. What?? He even referred to the fact in Genesis that people's life-spans decreased after the flood and suggested that the decrease was because of eating meat. He even had the audacity to say that they clearly ate the clean animals primarily or the unclean ones would have become extinct. He never MENTIONED that God gave people every thing that moves upon the ground for food. He just glibly ignores whatever Biblical facts don't work for himóand twists texts and words to suggest the Bible teaches something completely false. Listening to him, I can now remember and understand why so many of us grew up with such deep-seated aversions to certain foods that we have trouble getting over them. His expounding upon "pig-itis" (his term) to describe the horror of trichinosis is just --well -- distgusting. Sigh. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2837 Registered: 3-2004 |
Every so often, on Sunday mornings, I watch D. Batchelor just to remind myself of what I left. I get so disgusted by his glibness and rushing through things. I am so glad God is God, because if I was I would not tolerate that. Thank God I am not God. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2396 Registered: 11-2002 |
Timmy, were you raised SDA? I was as were a lot of others on this board. I remember very well being aa kid at the SDA school being taught that SDA's are THE ONLY Christians that take a literal understanding of the Bible. Even as a kid I figured out my teachers were either stupid or they were liers. I have since decided they were both. Colleen, you mean to say that DB actually used for his proof to be vegetarian was that tortusses get centuries old? Why not California Redwoods? They actually are the oldest living things on earth. Also, again I'd like to say that SDA's generally refer to Jesus not so much as their savior but as their example. Jesus ate fish and lamb. He worked on the Sabbath. He partied with fine wine and dancing at the wedding reception. He kept company with some very unseemy folks. He is said by SDA's to be their example yet most SDA's would never even think about doing some of the things Jesus did. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4657 Registered: 12-2003 |
Well, SusanóI guess the redwoods don't ingest animal matter, either...well, maybe they do...! Yes, Doug did use the tortoise as an example. He also said something to the effect that the tortoise couldn't prove that a human could live that long, but nevertheless the tortoise IS a vegetarian...He also referred to the people of Hunza, etc. Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1515 Registered: 10-2004  |
I bet Batchelor didn't mention the following information about the Hunzas (I don't know how accurate it is, but...):
I wonder if he would still hold them up as a great example for us to aspire to, if he read that! LOL!! Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on September 23, 2006) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4659 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ha! So the Hunzas AREN'T vegetarians! This is almost funny! Where did they get the idea that the Hunzas are vegetarians? (Or did they used to be, maybe?) Thanks, Jeremy. Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1516 Registered: 10-2004 |
I don't believe they were ever vegetarians. Some sites I found said they eat "minimal meat," "occasional meat," or "very little meat" (since it is not always available, apparently--although when it is available it seems they eat 2-4 pounds per week according to the above quote). I also found it humorous that they drink wine and work seven days a week with no sabbath! Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on September 23, 2006) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4661 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jeremy, I just find this so amusing! Exhibit A has just ben exposed as fradulent...not only do they eat meat, they imbibe and never "rest"! Colleen | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 375 Registered: 10-2002  |
Susan - Good point about Jesus being the SDA "example" in all things... except eating, working, drinking, etc.! Colleen - The tortoise thing is funny and incredibly silly! I still find it continually amusing that I live in a country where people have one of the longest life-spans on earth (Japan), yet people here binge-drink on sake, shochu, beer, eat fried meat, eat sea urchins, octopus, squid, and the occasional raw beef or horse meat. Oh, and fermented soy beans ("natto")... but I'm not sure there's any "prohibition" against that one.  (They do smell nasty, though!) | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 2063 Registered: 3-2005 |
Another painful sermon I heard from Doug Batchelor was one in which he tried to explain away the obvious passages that refer to the right use of wine in the Bible. But it is one like I have heard in fundamentalist Baptist circles as well--these people want to deny the obvious! Today at our PCA church we had another beautiful communion service in which real wine was used. This is done in part because of how Christ observed the first communion, as he used real wine. But John Calvin brings out an important point; using real wine signifies with its mixture of bitter and sweet taste the bitter aspects of Good Friday and the death, but the sweetness of the Resurrection and the Glory to Come! I like that thought. Stan | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2397 Registered: 11-2002 |
Agapetos, Around a week ago on the front page of the Honolulu newspaper was an article about American life expenceties. The article said Japanese-Americans have not only the longest life expectancy with an average death age of 80 but they also have the highest quality of life in regards to illness and suffering with most old Japanese-Americans getting old and dying from being old and worn out. I really found this extremely interesting because an exceptionally high percentage of Japanese smoke. And all that raw fish not only smells icky but it tasts icky, too (and, it's funny looking). Nonetheless, they got the handle on it. I am wondering if it is the same for the Japanese in Japan as it is for the Japanese-Americans. Please, let me know. BTW, I love stir-fry, pot stickers, egg rolls, roman noodle soup and an assortment of other Japanese foods, especially mooshi. | ||
| Timmy Registered user Username: Timmy Post Number: 40 Registered: 8-2006  |
Susan, Yes I was born and raised SDA. I went to SDA skools ;-) for 14 years and they always placed much emphisis on how they are the ONLY ones who take the WHOLE Bible for whats it says. Just another one of those lies. This should probably go on another thread but... another great lie I have come to realize is this, I was told that ALL people who worship their creator on Sunday believe that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday. BIG LIE. I have worshipped with new covenant Christians now for almost 2 years and I have not met a single person who believes the sabbath was changed to Sunday. Rather, they believe that the Sabbath was a shadow of a reality which is found in Christ and Christ alone... (This I NEVER heard before now) If they have the truth, why do they have to lie so much??? (the Doug Batchler Hunza issue is a good example) tim | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2840 Registered: 3-2004 |
I was born SDA also. I went to SDA schools first grade through university, with the exception of my first year of college at a local community college. After that I shipped myself off to La Sierra. So, I also, was filled with all their lies, half truths, etc. Thank God, He had much patience with me and eventually I heard Him call my name and answered. He is awesome. Diana | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 377 Registered: 10-2002 |
Yes, Susan, the Japanese are generally pretty healthy. The smoking is taking a silent toll on society, though. You see iron lungs sometimes, but then again, the vast amount of people I see (pass by) every day is incredible---something couldn't fathom while living in America (well, if I had lived in New York city, maybe). But even with that, they seem healthier. If someone dies in their 70s, it's generally looked on as dying young. 80s and 90s are more regular, and there are a lot of 100+s. The NHK channel had a feature the other day on a Christian lady in the east part of Japan who is over 100. It was very sweet to see, and very nice to see Christianity & Christian love exposed through her on TV (it's pretty rare to see that on TV here). By the way, sushi is actually pretty good, depending on what you get. I go for salmon, tuna, shrimp and freshwater eel. The sea urchin is disgusting, however, haha. Timmy, I know exactly what you mean about the idea that we read "the whole" Bible and no one else didn't. In actuality we believed that only because we thought we obeyed the 4th commandment. Once I let that go in Christ, however, I began discovering the whole rest of the Bible! There was so much I didn't know, so much I hadn't read, so many great, wonderful & deep things all over the place! It was astounding to me how little we read in Adventism! But simply because of the Sabbath point, most Adventists won't understand this. I think you could lump this in the "veil" that Paul spoke of in 2nd Corinthians 3:14. | ||
| Janen Registered user Username: Janen Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2006 |
I am still an SDA but whith doubts. I read here now and then. This time I can¥t keep quiet. Some of You remind me of SDA¥s (we are right, they are wrong). Be aware. Now this thing about alcohol. The Bible is full of argument not to drink. The most important is LOVE. For example in Sweden where I live, 200,000 children suffer from their parents drinking. And we are only 9,000,000 people. I guess it¥s far worse in the US. You don¥t need the Bible to find out what¥s right in this question. I like to be salt of the earth, and The LOVE of God tells me to. Bless. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 205 Registered: 6-2006  |
Janen, velkommen! Please share your story with us. This is a wonderful forum with many loving people. If you have questions, you have come to the right place. Everyone here is so kind and will be happy to answer your questions with Biblical scriptures. No question is too small or unimportant. Leigh Anne | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 190 Registered: 3-2005 |
Welcome Janen! I love the dialogue here. You will find differences of opinion, but never differences in what it means to rest in Jesus alone! I hope you will share more of your journey with us, and we can get to know you better. Here's my two cents worth on what the Bible says about alcohol- I believe the Bible is very clear about not being DRUNK. But it is also clear that drinking alcoholic beverages is not only OK, but good. If the Bible was telling us not to drink any alcoholic beverages at all, it would not warn us about drunkeness, but command abstinence. I agree that alcohol can be misused and has injured many families. So have automobiles, prescription drugs, even water -- just about anything good can also be used for harm. This doesn't mean we don't avail ourselves of the good things, only that we use them correctly, in a way that can help rather than harm. There are people that never learn to drive or swim and lead full healthy lives - not because they don't drive or swim though! I love to drive and swim, but I learned how to do these things properly and not in a way that will harm myself or others. The same goes with drinking! I don't think there is any question about what the Bible says about drinking alcohol. Alcohol was used and even condoned. I believe it is up to the individual to ascertain whether it will be used for good or ill in their own life. Choosing to abstain is a personal matter and not one to be imposed on others, and the same goes for drinking alcoholic beverages. Neither choice has anything to do with being a Christian! Cheers - tisha | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 4666 Registered: 12-2003 |
Welcome, Janen. We look forward to hearing more from you and hearing your story. In actuality, the Bible doesn't actually teach against drinking. It is strong, though, in its insistence against drunkenenss and abuses of alcohol. Further, the alcoholic beverage the Bible actually promotes in moderation is wine (1 Timothy 6:18)ónot a strong distilled drink. Without doubtóalcohol can be dangerous and a cause of abuse. Yet we can't actually say the Bible teaches sagainst alcohol. That being said, I believe many people excuse their own overindulgence by claiming the Bible gives them permission to drink. We really must submit everything in our lives to the authority of Jesus and His word. And again, Janen, welcome! We are glad you've joined us! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2842 Registered: 3-2004 |
Welcome Janen, Let us know more about your journey with Jesus when you are ready. I agree with the abuse of alcohol. I have seen children with fetal alcohol syndrome and children whose mothers abused drugs-prescription and illegal. I have seen children from auto accidents before the child safety seat came into being with horrible head injuries. So everything can be abused. I agree with Colleen that we must submit everything in our lives to God and his word. God is truly awesome. Diana |
