| Author | Message | ||
| Fdauns |
Hello, I do not believe I have posted here before but I have been lurking off and on for a while. So I'd first like to say hi and pass a thank-you on to those who make this site possible. I've had a thought which I feel like I should pass on. I'm sure its not new but its new to me so I'm posting it. From studying the scriptures it becomes apparent that the New Testament is pretty clear in its identification of the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant was the entire law given at Sinai including the "tablets of the covenant" as it says in the OT or the law "engraven on tables of stone" as it says in the NT. That being said the question remains, "Why would God go and command a bunch of stuff and then go off and change his mind and throw it all out ?" Or to put it another way, if "Love one another as I have loved you" is the command of the New Covenant why was it not that simple in the Old Covenant ? I mean the New Covenant seems so much simpler and straightforward to understand in concept than the complex rules and commands of the Old Covenant. This bugged me for a long time. The answer of course is in the command as Christ gave it. "Love one another AS I HAVE LOVED YOU". For whatever reason, only God knows for sure, it was not the right time for Christ to come until the day he was born of Mary. Prior to his coming, living and dying, how would you practically say "Love One Another" and leave it at that ? It just wouldn't have worked. As it was it wasn't enough to say "Don't commit adultery" without going off and outlining a very detailed list of things that were adultery in the books of Moses. Etc. for the other commandments. Prior to the Life of Christ how could you say "Love as anyone has loved". Prior to Christ there was no example of Love like that. Because it was impossible to give us, as humans, such a command we had to have a "tutor" as Paul puts it. To give us very specific commands to guide our behavior. But now Christ has come. He has shown us love. Pure unselfish and undeserved love. This he now commands us to extend to others in the same way. Those who argue that if the Old Covenant included the stone tablets that would mean we would be free to do whatever we want or that there would not be any sin because sin is only known by the law miss a very obvious point. The Law in the New Covenant is a command to Love as Christ has loved. And that is one that we all fall short of every day. And that is the law that defines sin. Now that Christ has come we can look at the example of his life and understand just what it is we are asked to do. Before Christ we had no way of understanding this and hence we had to have the Law given on Sinai. Just my $0.02. | ||
| Lori |
Just wanted to add to what you posted--the royal law as stated in James 2:8 "If you really keep the royal law in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself, you are doing right". This royal law was given to Israel also--you will find it in Leviticus 19:18b. "love your beighbor as yourself. I am the Lord". Many use the concept that 'God never changes'. When taken in context this statement means that God's motives, etc...always come from and work within the frame work of pure love. God's mandates have changed throughout history. Lev. 19:30 says "Observe my Sabbaths and have reverence for my sanctuary. I am the Lord". This verse contains the 'signature' of God just like verse 18, which contains the royal law. The presence of God resided in the Most Holy Place in the Temple. The temple was the place that believers in that time had to go in order to be in the presence of the Most High. Where does God reside today? Every believer is indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Christ lives within us. Where must we go to meet him? He is always with us; we don't have to go anywhere. What must we do to be in fellowship with Him? Name our sins to God the Father and instantly we are in fellowship with Him. The flesh no longer controls us--at that very moment the Holy Spirit controls our thoughts and actions. This is vastly different from what OT saints had available to them. The ceremonial things they were instructed to do were a shadow of the superior things to come. We have such tremendous spiritual assets at our disposal!!! And we squander them. We would all be extremely embarrassed and ashamed to know how many times we have exchanged the blessings of heaven because we decided to do it our way (let the flesh control) instead of choosing to let the Holy Spirit remain in command. A minister once explained the purpose of Christ life on earth to me as this: God the Son came to earth for one purpose. He came to demonstrate the prototype of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in a believers life. The prototype that He used worked with perfection. This prototype became available to each and every person who chose to believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior. They were GIVEN the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and they were given the instruction manual (God's word). How well it works in our lives is directly proportionate to how much we have studied the manual. | ||
| Fdauns |
Lori, Your points that you added are indeed correct. They are things which over the last couple years I have discovered. They are exactly what scripture teaches. The thing that was missing in all of this for me was, Why go through the entire Old Covenant at all if the New is now sufficient. Although the Old was clearly defined, and the New as well I just couldn't answer for myself why it was that we had to have one before the other. And as I said in my first post the answer is simply that before we had seen Christ live his life as he did we had no way of know what he meant by "Love". Any definition of love that I have ever seen pales in comparison to what Christ did. Without his example, "Love as I have loved you" has no meaning and hence we needed the Old Covenant. Its really rather simple. Sometimes the simplest things can be the hardest to discover. | ||
| Colleentinker |
I really like your insight about loving, Fdauns. Jesus did truly fulfill everything! Colleen | ||
| Martin_l_kale |
I agree with what has been said. The Law was given to point out sin. It was to prove to Israel that they could not succeed in being perfect through the law. Also remember that before Christ, "Love your neighbor" meant love other Jews. Thank God, Jesus taught that everyone is to be considered a neighbor. Martin | ||
| Sabra |
It is my understanding that the Holy Spirit was given after Christ's ascension as a comforter and a guide. So, if the people before that time did not have the Holy Spirit living in them, they would need the law to make them conscious of sin. I still have not found a reason in my search for the food laws. If someone has some insight, please let me in. Thanks! Sabra | ||
| Martin_l_kale |
Well, there may have been symbolic resons. I don't know. But I think there were practical reasons too. Pork can have Trichina (worms). Chances are that back then they were not able to reliably cook the Trichina to death. Fish without scales are bottom feeders. Etc. That's all I can think of. Martin | ||
| Violet |
I was taking to a buddy who is in the military the other day. I asked him why they were so strict about details like shiny belt buckles ect. He told me it was not the belt buckles they were worried about, but they were trying to teach attention to detail especially when another guys life could depend on if you are paying attention. Maybe God was doing the same simply attempting to get them to pay attention. | ||
| Doug222 |
Violet, But don't you think that many of the food laws (at least the ones that the Adventists have selectively chosen) serve a functional purpose as well? In spite of the fact that I know longer feel obligated to abstain from certain foods, it does make good practical sense. "All things are lawful, but not all things are expedient." In His Grace, Doug | ||
| Fdauns |
I don't know specifically about the dietary laws. Some have pointed out possible health corrolations. I suspect that whether or not pork is more healthful than say beef is more dependant on whether the study was funded by the pork farmers association or the cattle industry. But when you look at the entire set of commands they essentially, to me at least, have a single specific objective in mind. Take several hundred thousand people, navigate them across the desert, keep them together as a cohesive unit, don't let them all die, and somehow convince them to keep alive the Law of God until such time as Christ could come. Thus we see everything from sanitation to civil order to disease control to spiritual commands. And when you view it in this light you begin to understand why sometimes things had to get ugly. Failure in this mission was not an option. If God didn't keep the Jews together to preserve the Old Covenant until such time as Christ came then contemplate what impact that would have on our understanding of Christ. Without the symbol to point to Christ, without the law to condemn, without the prophecies to point forward to Christ, how would we be able to understand the signifigance of Christs life, death and resurrection ? Just my $0.02 | ||
| Sabra |
Thanks for your input guys! | ||
| Colleentinker |
I just now read your post above, Fdauns. Thank you for your great explanation! Colleen | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 857 Registered: 8-2004  |
Somewhere up this thread is a mention of pork in reference to trichina worms so I'm posting this humorous look at a serious situation here: Coke Adds Life Enjoy! Mary |
