| Author | Message | ||
| Justdodie Registered user Username: Justdodie Post Number: 41 Registered: 2-2006  |
This is something that has always puzzled me and it may seem obvious to others, but can anyone explain to me the difference between a "created" being and a "begotten" being? And, in light of the two definitions, which are human beings considered to be? And which is Satan--created, right? I know that Adam and Eve were created, and angels were created. Beyond that, I am awash in confusion. Thanks, Joyce | ||
| Xsra Registered user Username: Xsra Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2005 |
Hi Dodie As I understand it, to be created means to be made out of nothing that had existed previously, whereas to be begotten means to be made out of something that already exists. Another way of looking at it is a begotten person has two lives, their father's and their mother's, the two fusing to make one new life. This is an object lesson of how Christ and the sinner, being two, become one, and that One is Christ. While it is true that Eve was made out of something that had existed, ie, one of Adam's ribs (from his side), I feel this was merely symbolic of God's intention that she should stand by Adam's side and he by her side, to support one another as equals. Therefore Adam and Eve were both created, as was Lucifer and all the angels, while Adam and Eve's children (us) were begotten. But while on the subject of begotten, in what sense do you suppose Christ was and is the only begotten of God? If He was begotten, does this mean He had a beginning at some point in time? Personally, I believe He is from everlasting, there never being a time when He wasn't present. Rob | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 461 Registered: 7-2004  |
Hi Joyce, As far as I know, Jesus is the only one ever referred to as "begotten" and that would tell me there is a difference between created and begotten. Jesus is the Creator (John 1:3 "Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.") That would mean Jesus created everything and everyone outside of the triune God, including Satan. By the way Satan is an angel; he was created as Lucifer and was re-named Satan when he was kicked out of heaven. It might be interesting to look up "begotton" in various Bible commentaries. In my mind, the reason Jesus is referred to as "begotten" is because He was born on earth, and it is at that point He became "begotten." | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3982 Registered: 12-2003  |
I have also heard theologians explain that "begotten" means "unique", "one and only" in the Biblical passages such as John 3:16. All created beings were made by, through and for Jesus (see Colossians 1:16); He himself is before all things, and in Him all things hold together (Col 1:17). All angels were created; all humanity is created; Jesus is "begotten" of the Fatherķand He is eternally God just as is the Father and the Holy Spirit. This is a mystery not explained to us, but its reality is emphaiszesd throughout Scripture. Colleen | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1395 Registered: 7-2003 |
So, is there a difference in "begotten" and "begot"? Because my Matthew 1, for example, is full of people who were "begot". It would seem begotten is a form of begot, or at least it looks that way in English. I don't know about the original. Not to muddy the waters or anything.  | ||
| Justdodie Registered user Username: Justdodie Post Number: 42 Registered: 2-2006 |
Thanks for all your answers. I remember learning that angels, and Adam and Eve were created. And in reading all the subsequent "begats" in the Old Testament, they are referring to people being born in the normal human way, e.g. Abraham begat Isaac, Isaac begat Jacob, etc. These generally referred to the paternity of the individual. So, when the New Testament refers to Jesus as God's "only begotten son", they are referring to the fact that Jesus had a "heavenly father (God)" rather than a human father, although I'm not sure if this is meant to be taken as a physical conception as described in all the other begats. In light of this, all human beings are "begotten" and I guess that's what always confused me.... Jesus was "begotten".... we (humans) are begotten.... yet Jesus was different? But the difference seems to be in the nature of his paternity (human vs divine). Are we to take this in a literal physical sense? Or in some other (supernatural) manner?? As to whether Jesus (the divine aspect) had a beginning somewhere or sometime, as Rob asked... well, I've never really been able to grasp the whole concept of trinity, and Jesus being One with God from everlasting. I suppose he must have just chosen to take on a physical body, but how this was accomplished, I haven't a clue. But at least now I think I understand what is meant by "begotten." Joyce | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3986 Registered: 12-2003 |
I really don't know the answers to all the questions concerning "begotten". Actually, the Bible leaves much of the incarnation shrouded in mystery. We are not told HOW Jesus was fully God and fully man at the same time. From our perspective, such a reality is impossible. It is a singularity, as astrophysicists would say of situations or events that cannot be experienced more than once. We know only that Mary is His Mother and God is His Father. How that worked biologically, we aren't told. What we DO know is that he was conceived by the Holy Spirit and thus was spiritually alive from the moment of conceptionķunlike all of us since Adam who were conceived in sin and must come to spiritual life by means of new birth by the Holy Spirit. He was born without original sin; He was never separated from His Father by sin in Him. Again, we have to live with the mystery, but we know enough to know the essence of truth. Here's where we need faith to trust that this paradox fits together in eternity. We can trust God even thought we don't understand the "science" of it. The effects of knowing Jesus are real and profound and are impossible to explain outside of His personal reality and involvement. Thanks for the provocative questions, Joyce! Colleen |
