| Author |
Message |
Jackob
Registered user
Username: Jackob
Post Number: 150
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 11:22 am: |     |
Bill, my deep need to take the Bible at face value is a way of saying that I need to get rid of my adventist historical-critical method which was instilled from the pastors and defenders of Ellen White. If I have stated something else, I apolgize. It seems properly to remember that I'm a romanian guy who express himself in this language only on this forum. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3665
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 3:05 pm: | |
Jackob, The Bible is "self-authenticating", which means that because it is inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit convicts us of truth and opens our eyes to understand it when we read itóif we are open to the Holy Spirit's teaching.
2 Timothy 3:16 says that All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, correction, and so on.
I like your argument that because we're in the New Covenant, we have no more need of prophets because we are personally ushered into the presence of God. What's really amazing is that the more I study and trace the NT writers' quotes back to the OT, the more I see the consistency and the big picture of God's sovereignty and the shadows of the OT really pointing to the events of the NT.
Reading Ellen, on the other hand, becomes more and more confusing. She is definitely NOT in the same league as the Bible.
Colleen |
Jeremiah
Registered user
Username: Jeremiah
Post Number: 73
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 3:46 pm: | |
Colleen,
For my own education and perhaps entertainment, I decided to take up the offer of the two Mormon missionaries I met the other day and study with them. It's been quite interesting. The reason I mention this is because of your comment that the Bible is "self authenticating". To a believing Mormon, the BoM is self authenticating too. The way they tell you to find out whether it is a true book is to read it and then pray to God about whether it's true or not.
But to me, looking from the outside in, the BoM is a work of religious fiction from the mid 1800's!
I like to see more than simply a "feeling" in my evidence whether something is true or not. Which is why I did some research in the history of not only the Bible, but Christianity.
I do think that there are places where the writers of the NT use the OT in a way that is out of context as we would see it. But I notice that the Church Fathers like to use the OT the same way. I think it is partly that their culture allowed them to see meanings in scripture which would not be clearly obvious from our point of view.
But assuming that the NT writers were indeed inspired by the Holy Spirit, who is to say that the Christians who came after them lost that inspiration? I'm certainly not prepared to say it.
For an excellent example of an early Christian defending his interpretation of the OT against someone who accuses of twisting and taking it out of context, read Justin Martyr's Dialogue with Trypho the Jew.
Jeremiah |
Catalyst
Registered user
Username: Catalyst
Post Number: 119
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 6:23 pm: | |
Jackob - I was not making fun of you - I am aware that you are not primarily an English speaking person - I have great admiration for those that speak multiple languages - I have 1.5 myself <grin>.
My point was that finding the "will of God" is often something that people say, but in my opinion the will of God is that you be about His Father's business. . . it is not something that you should find out - in other words - finding what state you should be in or what church you should belong to or what job you should take - do what you feel - and be a Christian in your behavior where ever you are.
Regarding the Bible - there are those that feel it is inerrant. I have not found anything in the Bible that claims inerrancy, nor do I feel that you need inerrancy to be useful (bring you into a knowledge of God, and get to know Him better).
Be careful of those that know all the answers. Knowledge is progressive (witness that beliefs and belief systems have changed dramatically over the last few hundred years.) Imagine how impossible it would be to have an omnipotent all powerful immortal being that you could have simple words written that totally explained this being correctly in your own language? Now believe that over time with many people writing it that it is inerrant - that no problems can or do exist between its covers?
Bill |
Cathy2
Registered user
Username: Cathy2
Post Number: 104
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 12:03 am: | |
Freeindeed,
The forum I meant is 'Revival Sermons'.
I had to stop lurking because they are so conservative and EGW dependant, I got oppressed in my spirit. I respect all those, here, who tried to post the Gospel truth there.
Stay free in The Word of Life, Himself~
Cathy
|
Wolfgang
Registered user
Username: Wolfgang
Post Number: 72
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 2:37 pm: | |
Cathy,I too have been lurking and posting at R/S,and I think I too will stop because I know what you mean it does oppress the spirit,I get angry at thier forums. The one now is it ok to eat chocolate?? and a poster said that is why the Lord has not returned yet because we are just like the Isralites in appetite,I just want to come thru cyber world and shake them!! God in the SDA world is very small.
Dawn |
Cathy2
Registered user
Username: Cathy2
Post Number: 106
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 3:45 pm: | |
"I just want to come thru cyber world and shake them!!"
Oh, Dawn! You just made my day with your gut honesty!
I thought I was getting too cranky about Adventism, but there are reasons for the feelings.
R/S is its own planet. Even my conservative, EGW-SDA family wouldn't get some of their stuff.
Chocolate toffee addict,
Cathy |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2428
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 10:25 pm: | |
"I just want to come thru cyber world and shake them!!"
Ohhh, I like that. That is how I felt when I used to post there. They major in minors, like chocolate addiction. I have quit lurking there also. Like Dawn said, I want to shake them.
So, we continue to pray for all SDAs in our weekly prayer chain. God is working on them and all SDAs. We cannot see it now and we may not see the results until we are in heaven. That is okay with me. I will leave God's work to God. He is much better at it than I.
He is always so awesome.
Diana |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 1008
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 9:41 am: | |
It is hard to believe that it was a little over a year ago that several of us got caught up in an effort to break through the hard shell of conservative Adventist that is reflected at R/S. I, personally, was so naive as to think that if the Gospel of Jesus Christ were to be clearly stated that those folks would celebrate that they don't have to sweat the small stuff any more. Wrong! Dawn, you are so right that they have a very small God. I'll stay with the Awesome, Powerful, Amazing God that the Gospel has introduced me to. I am His and He is mine. Praise God from whom all blessings flow! |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 464
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 10:09 am: | |
Belvalew, There is one thing that each of you who post over on R/S need to remember. There are many others there who read and do not respond. If the posts that those from here are leaving are Christlike and flow from a spirit of Love there are many who will be influenced and start to examine and study for themselves.
You will probably never know of most of those.
In the same way if you post in an angry and mean way it will have an influence on their perceptions of those who have left the SDA church.
In His hands,
richard
rtruitt@mac.com
PS: I must confess I don't read over there, I just don't have the time. |
Wolfgang
Registered user
Username: Wolfgang
Post Number: 73
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 4:35 am: | |
good point Richard,in fact you dont know who is visiting or not so I do make it a point to not attack or draw them into a defensive mode,I cant say they do the same,however folks that are investigating can figure that out I'm sure. But it's still like sticking a needle in my eye everytime I post, I'll pray how God would have me use my time there. Iam getting involved in my new church womens ministry,I just feel absolutly liberated since leaving SDA behind. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3676
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 11:42 am: | |
Dawn, that liberation you feel is what so confuses Adventists. They do not understand that it is a spiritual freedom, not a freedom from bahviors or from what they might call our "misunderstanding" of what Adventism teaches.
The liberation you feel is from the bondage to the spirit of deception that kept the Bible from being able to speak clearly for itself through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It is also freedom from the bondage to a misunderstanding of what saved people "do" in order to honor God.
Praise God for setting us free!
Colleen |
