| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 87 Registered: 11-2005 |
http://sspm.gc.adventist.org/pm/thesharing/2004/NewMemberRetention.ppt http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:0DtYO4vt-98J:sspm.gc.adventist.org/pm/thesharing/2004/NewMemberRetention.ppt+Adventist+%22Baptismal+Class%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5 Baptismal Class New Members Class New Member Training Classes * It is also beneficial for church members to circulate through these classes on a rotating basis. o It allows church members to fellowship with the new converts. o It is beneficial for church members to review what is presented in the class for their own spiritual progress. Rotating Members * Do not ask questions that confuse new believers * Do not criticize the church * Do not raise controversial theological issues * Do not bring up about in-depth prophetic interpretations * Do not focus on Ellen Whiteís writings I guess this precludes discussing the 2300 days/Investigative Judgement ... | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 88 Registered: 11-2005 |
Interesting ... http://plusline.org/article.php?id=196 Children and Baptism "Too many wrongly believe that children should not be baptized until they are of an age to understand fully the beliefs of their church. But by then kids may be more into pre-adolescent rebellion than into joining." Childrenís Simplified Seventh-day Adventist Baptismal Vows Adapted by Pastor Victoria Harrison and Noelene Johnsson - I believe in God the Father, in His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and that they have always been and always will be. - I believe God created the world, everything in it, and the first two people, in six real days of Creation--and that I too am created by God. - I believe God made Holy the seventh day of Creation and for all eternity set aside the Sabbath to remind me of Who He is, that He wants to be my Friend and spend time with me. - I accept the death of Jesus on the cross to save me from sin, and His resurrection; He is now in heaven (mediating) for me, and preparing a special home for me. - I accept the new heart God gives me in place of my sinful heart; because of this the Holy Spirit can help me live Godís way. - I believe that Jesus is in heaven as my Best Friend, High Priest, and Savior; God gives me the Holy Spirit so I can be willing, forgiving, loving, and obedient--just like Jesus was as a boy. - I believe God gave me the Bible, His Word, as my most important textbook to discover Godís loving and just character and to guide me as I grow more like Jesus. - I accept the Ten Commandments, which require me to respect God first and then all of His creation, including His Sabbath, the seventh day of the week. - I accept my responsibility to disciple people to prepare for the return of Jesus to take His people home, at His Second Coming; I will participate in Communion Service as a reminder that God has a plan to save me so I can live with Him forever. - I believe that people who die are sleeping in the grave where their bodies turn to dust; at the Second Coming Jesus will make them new bodies that will never die. - I believe God gives special gifts to His people, and that the Gift of Prophecy is one of the gifts given to the church to help us better understand God and His Word. I am designed by God with special gifts to disciple other people for Him. - I honor Godís love for me by offering Him my time, talents, and treasure; I am making God the Lord in every area of my life, which includes returning Godís ten percent tithe and an offering. - I accept only healthy and pure things in my body and mind because the Holy Spirit lives in me now, and a healthy mind and body prepare me to serve God at my best. - With Godís power, I accept the principles of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, as found in Godís Word, and promise to make them part of my life. - I choose to be baptized, as Jesus was, to announce that I choose to love and obey God always, accepting His choices for me and commissioned to share the message that Jesus is coming soon to take us to heaven. - I choose to be a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, and I believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church with a God-given message to take to all the people of the world. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1220 Registered: 3-2005 |
Gilbert, What you linked to in that opening post is such a great example of the brainwashing techniques that cultic structures provide. At first, there was a lot of fairly orthodox concepts, but then as those pictures flashed on, it became progressively cultic. When I got to those clown pictures about forbidden foods and drinks, I had to click off, as I had just had dinner and just may have had some of those forbidden foods and drinks, and I didn't want to spoil it. (smiley) Great post, Gilbert. Stan | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2232 Registered: 3-2004  |
Gilbert, Thanks for your above posts for new members and children. Let us keep praying for all Adventists every Friday at sundown and Saturday afternoon at 1 PM Pacific time. The longer I am away from Adventism, the more I see the cult qualities. And to think, I believed all that at one time. Thank you God for taking each of us away from this cult. Thank you for Jesus. You are Awesome. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 892 Registered: 7-2004 |
Did you notice that tired old list of the reasons why people fall away from the church. There is one more reason why people leave that they need to put on their little powerpoint list -- People leave because they have found their life is buried in Christ, and that when he arose they came away from death with him. Jesus did it all, provides it all, and is our all in all! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2233 Registered: 3-2004 |
Belva, Do you really believe the Adventists would put that on the list???(smile) If they did that it would almost be an admission that there is something wrong with their doctrine. Diana | ||
| Paulcross Registered user Username: Paulcross Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2005 |
Jorgfe: You quoted:- - I accept the new heart God gives me in place of my sinful heart; because of this the Holy Spirit can help me live Godís way. - I believe that Jesus is in heaven as my Best Friend, High Priest, and Savior; God gives me the Holy Spirit so I can be willing, forgiving, loving, and obedient--just like Jesus was as a boy. It really leapt off the page, I was reading some excerpts from John Calvin's rebuttal to the Council of Trent's work on salvation and the RCC's adamant assertion that justification includes a God-Man cooperative work of good living. I felt sick to see this teaching to sda kids, Iím again repulsed by the "justification plus my sanctified life as the basis for salvation". I'm shaking my head. This is the nightmare I grew up in. Maybe I'm overreacting!?!? Maybe I'm still so messed up I don't see things straight. Paul Cross | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3268 Registered: 12-2003  |
Very interesting link, Gilbert. I was struck all over how little new Adventists know about Adventism. If one is "accessed" (to borrow a term from the link) into a fairly evangelical congregation in a liberal location, they may never figure out the truth. I heard just today an impassioned plea about how insignificant doctrinal differences are, that what's important is one's Personal relationship with God. Where one worships is irrelelvant. Etc. The person who so pled is a fairly new Adventist who converted in out of an evangelical church. It seemed the Sabbath was the clinching fact for this person. All I could do was listen and think, "You don't even know what you are defending. There's no way you've been exposed to true Adventism in this area, and the fact that many Adventists dismiss much of Ellen makes it that much harder ever to know what's true." It's so hard to explain that we are not here to criticize, complain, judge, etc. We have truly met the Jesus of the Bible and discovered the New Covenant, and anything that blurs those realities cannot be defended. We are proclaiming Jesus and the gospel. That proclamation sounds like criticism to people who have embraced add-ons. I don't know how to "fix" this problem. Keep praying... Colleen | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 232 Registered: 10-2005 |
Interesting. Inter-Relationships Confess your sins to one another Negative ěOne Another's Do not devour one another Baptism: The event which marks the new believers entrance into the church and the local congregation. Adventist Vocabulary ěSpiritî of Prophecy ěGreat Controversyî Union and Division The ěmark of the beastî Adventist Vocabulary ěThe pen of inspirationî Adventist Vocabulary ěSpiritî of Prophecy Adventist Vocabulary ěMark of the beastî Seventh-day Adventist Teachings Occult practices Sounds right. And on to confusion. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2005 |
Coleen and the rest -- I am glad you appreciate my posts. These teachings and brainwashing are, to me, positively frightening. And they start at an early age, and like with DOug Bachelor, begin with the points of agreement, and then slip in other subtle twists later. It is very eerie and sly (and frightening). It is definitely much more slick than Mormonism. Gilbert | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 91 Registered: 11-2005 |
Diana -- you are so right. The further away I get from the old brainwashing that SDA-ism gave me the more shocked I am at how unbiblical it really is! | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 356 Registered: 7-2004  |
This looks like a good place to post the excerpt from the SDA children's baptismal study lessons that really shocked us shortly before having the veil removed. This is printed on page 139 in "Good News for Today Kids' Lessons" By Marjorie Gray:
Just before that section they went over the clean and unclean meats and then said "Many people have become vegetarians (people who do not eat animals, fish or birds). They feel that it is no longer safe to eat them because of pollutants, chemicals and diseases." What astounded me was cheese, pickles, and fried foods made it in the same list as drugs, all as ways to break the "Do not kill" commandment! I didn't see anything in there about the IJ, but they had a spot to check what you plan to do about getting ready to meet Jesus. The only choices were: *I hope I'm ready to meet Him *By God's grace I will be ready to meet Jesus *I might decide to get ready someday *I just want to have fun and forget about getting ready. And they have a section about signs of Jesus' soon return that include the Lisbon Earthquake, Dark Day and Moon Turned to Blood in 1780, and Falling Stars in 1833. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 894 Registered: 7-2004 |
The Lisbon earthquake, etc., have all been trumped by more recent events. The Tsunami of 2004 was much more destructive than the Lisbon earthquake. I'm not sure how to respond to The Dark Day other than to say that it was a North Eastern U.S. event and not experienced anywhere else in the world. Moon turned to blood is simply an eclipse--give me a break! | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 357 Registered: 7-2004 |
Just have to get one thing off my chest about church membership lessons in general. Our kids are currently in an LCMS confirmation class and we really love that church and the LCMS is one of the few that in addition to believing only 9 of the 10 Commandments are re-stated in the NT, they don't believe in tithing and don't believe any day is holy. Most importantly, they truly understand grace alone! That being said, I wonder why the Confirmation lessons have to have such a strong emphasis on the 10 Commandments? I'm assuming it's only for 10 lessons of the 3-year series, but the depths the focus goes to is ridiculous. With every 10 Commandment lesson, they do just like this SDA Bible Study and try to see how many ways can be found that would be breaking that commandment. I think for the Do Not Kill commandment, they said skipping church was violating that commandment because you're not using your time the way God wants you to and therefore it's impeding your relationship with God and/or other Christians. Such a stretch, especially when our focus is now on Jesus, not an external Law! So far I've kept my mouth shut, because there's not a chance in the world the Lutheran church is going to change their stance on the Law. They go with how Martin Luther himself presented it in his Catechism (plus more detail). I keep telling myself it doesn't matter that there is no church around here who fully understand the facts of the New Covenant. Since the LCMS has the most important part right (and they don't have a false prophet), I should just ignore the other stuff. Besides, their whole point on emphasizing Law is to show how impossible it is for anyone to keep the Law and that's why we need the Gospel. (Message edited by Raven on January 25, 2006) | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1223 Registered: 3-2005 |
Raven, Martin Lutther himself said that the decalogue was not binding on Christians. He wrote a strong anti-decalogue treatise from the standpoint of binding law. However, Luther did believe that kids should learn the principles of the decalogue thoroughly. Lutherans, as well as Reformed believe that law and gospel must be preached together. If we understand the Decalogue in the right context, I don't see any harm in teaching kids the Decalogue. I do understand as former SDAs and believers in the New Covenant like most of us are, that it creates some distaste, but at the same time there can be a tendency to possibly oversensitive to this issue. There is no perfect church, but LCMS is one of the closest to Biblical truth that there is. Stan | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 358 Registered: 7-2004 |
You're right Stan, I'm sure oversensitivity has a lot to do with it. Yes, it's good to learn about the Decalogue, but at home we are certainly making sure our kids understand the difference between the Decalogue and the Law of Christ, external versus internal, etc. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3280 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, I'm coming to the place where I can actually feel peaceful about someone seeing the role of the law differently than I do. As long as they're not teaching that we must keep the law in any context as part of our acceptance and security with God, I can let it go. While I still see the law as being entirely replaced by Jesus Himself and the Law of Christ being written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit, still I can understand people who teach the Decalogue as the LCMS does. I don't necessarily agree with that detail, but still, it's not heresy. As long as law is not added in ANY way for salvation, righteousness, or continuing security, I'm learning to relax with people who see it the way you described, Raven and Stan. If it were protrayed as in any way part of our security, that would be heresy! Colleen | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 234 Registered: 10-2005 |
Stan - You alway say that. LCMS is one of the closest to the Biblical truth that there is. Makes me chuckle. I hope we can meet in person some day as well as some others here in the forum. I know that is probably what Colleen thinks about New Covenant teachings where she attends church now, it is closest to the biblical truth. My husband has been that way about Southern Baptist teachings. He leans more on their biblical teachings as being closest to the biblical truth. As for me, well I believe what is closest to the biblical truth is closer to Pentecostal teachings, as you know, where I attend church now. I'm just glad none of us agree that it is the Adventist Church anymore. Bless to you all! | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 39 Registered: 10-2005 |
Raven ,wow the question asked the chiildern as to what commandment may shorten our life by what foods we might eat is thou shalt not kill? is that what God was talking about? I guess it's just another scare tactic,but more serious than that in my mind is perverting the Word,and confusing our childern. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2237 Registered: 3-2004 |
First the "Clear word for kids" and now what commandment may shorten our life by what foods we might eat!!! Let us remember to pray for all SDA kids and their families. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2108 Registered: 11-2002 |
Raven, please get my home number and my adress from Colleen. Then get ahold of me. I do not have e-mail or Internet access now. i also hold my earthly membersghip in a lutheran congreation. I attend both a ELCA and a Misouri Synod church most weeks. The ELCA in the morning and the Misouri in the evening. We are studing and going through the new Lutheran handbook now. If you have that book it would be fun for me to discuss it with you. Our pastor wants me to teach the up and coming Confirmation class. I just don't feel worthy of such responsibility. You know, that's quite a responsibility in giving those young people an understanding of Jesuas, grace, forgiveness, and so on. | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 367 Registered: 7-2004 |
Susan, what Lutheran Handbook are you referring to? I'll ask Colleen for your number and address. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2136 Registered: 11-2002 |
To live perfect just as Jesus did when He was a boy?! I don't think so! It just won't happen. We are constantly living in a state of grace and sin. We are simotainousely saints and sinners. I really feel sad for the children that are expected to believe that stuff. |
