| Author |
Message |
Lisa_boyldavis
Registered user
Username: Lisa_boyldavis
Post Number: 106
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 11:09 am: |     |
Can't you see it, can't you feel it? There are MOBS of people leaving the lies behind! I LOVE GOD FOR WHAT HE'S DOING IN PEOPLES LIVES. We are the chosen only because we are willing to say yes to him... chosen before the foundation of the world. He has saved us and is freeing us from the lies and our own fears. Father, I pray for all those who are afraid to see your truth, your good news, YOURSELF.
Lisa
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Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 750
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:00 pm: | |
Lisa, have you ever gone to Spectrum Magazines on-line site? You would expect it to be a site that supports Adventism, but there are so many who have become disillusioned with that system that they go on there to warn people away, or to coax them away from Adventism instead. The few Adventists who do post are at a loss when it comes to standing up for their faith, too. They usually mumble a bit about it being all they have ever known, and that all their friends are in the system so they are too--really inane stuff--and the people who have truly studied beyond that system are clear about their love of the Gospel that they can run rings around the Adventists. You are so right about us being "chosen before the foundation of the world." Remember when you were in the Adventist system and they called upon you to share your faith and it scared you to death? Now you want to stand up and shout all day because you finally understand that you have something to shout about. "Hallelujah, Jesus Loves Me, He paid the price for me and now I am saved forevermore." Thank goodness that none of my salvation is dependent on what I do and that I am carried on His mighty shoulders all of the way to Glory! |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 751
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:02 pm: | |
Here is the link to Spectrum -- it's a real eye-opener! http://www.spectrummagazine.org/phpbb/ |
Lisa_boyldavis
Registered user
Username: Lisa_boyldavis
Post Number: 109
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 12:09 pm: | |
Belvalew,
I got on that site this morning. Amazing. Have you read the mag. itself? I think I remember from the past that was considered by the "conservative SDA's" to be one of the parts of Adventism marching toward hell. Is that the same magazine?
Lisa |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 753
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 1:41 pm: | |
You may be right about that. If it were a conservative Adventist site I would have been summarily booted off, just like I was from Revival Sermons. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2919
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 4:00 pm: | |
You're right about Spectrum magazine, Lisa.
Colleen |
Lynne
Registered user
Username: Lynne
Post Number: 83
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 7:46 pm: | |
Lisa - Well, I'm leaving the church and feel awful about it. Colleen reminds me that I need to learn what reality is. Perhaps not being a church person is what is real. It seems to make the most sense. I don't feel good going to church at all, any church. They play the same music and talk about tithing and they think adventists are wonderful people. I changed my mind about being baptized again. My sins were already washed away when I was baptized 16 years ago in the SDA church and I believed in Christ. I think that is enough. All churches feel like an adventist church to me sometimes, I just don't like religion at all. |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2006
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 8:31 pm: | |
Lynne,
I have an older sister who thinks like you do. I love her very much and accept that she does not think as I do. And I love you the same way.
Leaving the SDA church is like going through a divorce or any other traumatic event. There are stages that one goes through and they are not gone through in an orderly manner. One jumps back and forth. I do not remember all the stages except denial and acceptance. There are 3-4 others. I will look them up and put them here for you.
Just keep looking to Jesus, not religion or a denomination. Keep talking to God. Tell Him exactly how you are thinking and feeling. He has broad shoulders and can take it. I have prayed some prayers that should never be printed, but God heard me, because I was being honest with Him and telling Him exactly how I felt and thought. Eventually those very uncomfortable feelings and thoughts were put in their proper place and God has reign in my heart.
Remember, it is not religion that is important to God. It is your relationship with God/Jesus Christ that is important.
I am praying for you.
Diana |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2007
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 8:44 pm: | |
Lynne,
I found the stages of grief on another thread and did not get the name of the person who printed it. So, to the person who wrote this, a BIG THANK YOU.
The stages of grief are denial,anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. I like the way the person wrote this, so I copied their ideas.
1.) Denial -- "Adventism CAN'T be wrong."
2.) Anger -- "Adventism IS wrong and I have been MISLED!"
3.) Bargaining -- "Adventism is wrong, but can't I just throw out what's bad and go on with my life as an Adventist?"
4.) Depression -- "Adventism is wrong, I probably should leave the church, but I can't bear to think of what might happen with family and friends, yet the prospect of remaining in the church is also bleak."
5.) Acceptance -- "Adventism is wrong, I'm leaving, and I'm a better person for having been an Adventist because now I know what it means to truly follow God versus following man's teaching about God. Put another way, now I know what it means to cling to the shadows, versus clinging to Christ. I'll take Jesus!"
A person will jump from one stage to another and not in an orderly manner, until they get to acceptance and stay there.
Again, I am praying as you go through this period of grief.
God, be with Lynne as she goes through these stages. You know it is like a death or a divorce and those are very painful. Hold her in Your awesome arms and do not let go of her. Help her as she gets to know you.
Thank you for answering this prayer.
Diana
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Lynne
Registered user
Username: Lynne
Post Number: 84
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:07 pm: | |
Diane - Thank you. I think I'm feeling those feelings. I am now distrustful of everyone, especially regarding religion, that is any church. I've had things happen to me in the SDA church that I am unwilling to tell anyone about and I am angry. I'm trying to give it all to God in prayer, I am definately experiencing grief. I know I don't want anything to do with the Adventist church. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2921
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 10:04 pm: | |
Lynne, what you are feeling is completely normal. The next issue of Proclamation, BTW, has an article by a former SDA pastor who is now the director of a behavioral medicine center. His article compares leaving a "toxic church" to going through a divorce, and he says that people bounce back and forth from abject despair to confidence that all will be OK.
It's important to turn to Jesus and to reading the Bible as a conscious decision when you feel this way. You may not feel like reading Scripture or even praying, but it's important to do it simply because you know that is how you will avail yourself of God's word to you and His truth and comfort.
Your anger is also normal. It would be unusual if you did not feel anger about the things that have happened to you because of the church. This experience is part of what God is using to turn you away from confusion and bondage, and He will redeem it. Your emotions during this period of grief and change are actually data. They tell you the truth about what you have experienced, and they help you understand the ambivalent feelings you have about the church.
It's just so important to remember that Jesus will keep you grounded in reality even as you experience these emotions. He will help you sort through them, survive them, and surrender to Him the things that you cannot change. Also remember that God has said vengeance is His. He is just. He is your advocate and defender, and you can trust Him to deal justly and eternally with those who have sinned against you. He will also heal your heart.
He will bring you to a place of Christian fellowship. He has said that we must not forsake meeting together with other believers. He loves and strengthens and comforts us through His body.
Dear Father, please be with Lynne and comfort and strengthen her heart with your peace and Presence. Please help her to trust You and allow You to show her Your will for her. Thank you for opening her eyes and revealing Your truth to her. Thank you for giving her the security of salvation in You. Thank you for Jesus and for His continuous intercession for us with You.
Thank you for Lynne and for allowing us to share this journey with her.
In Jesus name,
Amen |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 328
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 5:45 am: | |
This is a timely discussion, and I can't wait to read the article Colleen mentioned in the next Proclamation! And Lynne, I can so relate to your feelings that so many churches out there remind one of the legalism found in SDAism! That's been our problem in searching for a new church.
However, we think we've found our new church, and I had the strangest, and unexpected, experience the last couple days. Perhaps I'm going through the stages Diana posted above entirely different than expected. Has anyone else had a similar experience?
For me, other than some sadness and confusion about where to go from here, it wasn't that traumatic for me to leave the SDA church. Basically the facts were obvious to me and I knew my next mission was to find a church that teaches the true gospel, upholds Jesus and the Bible, and shows the love of Jesus. The search was very frustrating and I was beginning to think no such church existed.
Finally, we've been very impressed with the Lutheran Missouri Synod church (they have a contemporary service), spoke with the pastor, and last Sunday morning I was fully ready to join and told my husband so.
Then, a few hours later when I was picking up our daughter from her first confirmation class and going through her materials, it hit me like a train! I had the most conflicting feelings about if we were doing the right thing. It felt like maybe we're joining "Babylon". I've cried bucketloads of tears Sunday night and Monday morning. Is this weird or what--it was all settled just a few hours earlier!
Anyway, I wrote the pastor an e-mail about what just happened, and he was very kind and supportive--which reinforces that this is where we need to be right now. It all turned out perfectly, because he says the next new member class isn't until spring. I need the time to process, and I have that time, with no pressure!
The other weird thing is that going through this major emotional upheaval felt healing. I'm not used to opening my heart up, but it was okay.
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Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 329
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 5:49 am: | |
Guess what else is weird! The pastor's two daugthers (youngest one in our daughter's grade), have been vegetarians since toddlers. And I think I heard they used to be babysat by an SDA family. |
Taybie
Registered user
Username: Taybie
Post Number: 100
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 6:56 am: | |
Belva - Thank you for posting that site! I was so encouraged by the upliftment of Jesus out there! I even got the courage to send the site to a friend that is struggling with putting it all together. I have NO idea what is going to happen next, but he has sincerely been asking me questions about the Truth, Jesus Christ and the differences between the sda teachings and the Word of God. Not demeaning him at all, but he is a theology major...I can only imagine how he is dealing (or not) with all this information. A year ago, when I had only been out for a few months, I could not clearly state what I believed and knew for fact, but now, after the anger and depression has been washed away, I am much more concise in my statements, and I can see that fact clearly reflected in his eyes when I speak.
PRAISE GOD FOR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Message edited by Taybie on November 15, 2005) |
Lynne
Registered user
Username: Lynne
Post Number: 85
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 8:18 am: | |
Thank you for the support. I was raised by an ex-catholic who hates religion. Although I don't share those views, like adventism, I think they are deeply rooted in me now, especially after experiencing adventism for so long. I just feel like everyone is a sell out. If it looks good on the outside it is fine. Adventistism is just another christian church. Indeed, in our culture, I think it is.
Perhaps I will find another church where I can be more comfortable. I will continue to read the bible. My husband is a strong believer in tithing and the church we are attending had committment cards with regard on tithing and everyone that filled out the committment cards got a book "The Treasure Principle". Years ago, I saw my husband tithe before buying food for the family and I had to use a credit card food. He swears that we get more when we give that 10 percent, though it didn't always really happen that way. It says prove me on this, and I must say, I didn't work for him but he refuses to see that.
I feel like I want help learning about what is biblical, but whenever I've gotten help, it was wrong. It brings me back to how I was raised, the churches are filled with a bunch of hypocrites (I don't want anyone here to take that personally). But this is what I was taught prior to becoming adventist and it just seems terribly true to me right now. |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 1010
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 8:28 am: | |
Raven, I haven't found the perfect church either but I also believe that Lutheran Missouri Synod is one of the closest to Biblical truth. Martin Luther himself had a New Covenant philosophy as he was adamantly against the decalogue being a standard for Christians. He was especially caustic against Sabbatarianism, and only thought of Sunday as a practical time to assemble and worship.
Lynne, I understand your feelings, and I will be praying that God will lead you to the right place in His time. There are still many good churches out there who are faithful to His Word, and they don't believe in tithing and other legalistic rules.
Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2925
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 10:36 am: | |
Raven, your experience makes total sense to me. The grief doesn't hit everyone at the same stage. Your doubt hit you at the moment you decided to move instead of when you were intellectually processing the move. (I have a friend who didn't stress that much over leaving the church; her doubts hit her like a ton of bricks when she moved her girls to public school.)
Satan knows how we're "wired". He knows exactly when to dump the doubt and fear onto us. You weren't particualrly vulnerable to it before being face-to-face with what you were literally leaving. And you're right--you had to feel all that sadness and doubt. You had to exeprience God confirming your decision at an emotional level, not just at an intellectual one.
Go to His word, and pray. Ask Him to ground you in reality and to be more real to you than the doubt and fear. Ask Him to speak to you through His word and to direct your reading. He is faithful; He will walk with you through this.
Lynne, I had those doubts, too--doubts about how I could know what was really true because EVERYONE had a different opinion, it seemed! The fact is that God has confirmed to us that His word is God-breathed and incisive, It reveals our own hearts to us, and it reveals God's heart to us (2 Timothy 3:16 and Hebrews 45:10). Ask God to direct your reading, and ask Him to teach you with His Spirit through His word.
He is faithful, and He will teach you truth. You can know His will for you. He asks us to trust Him and to surrender to Him the doubt and denial that are our self-defenses against the possibility of being hurt. Fear is from Satan. Ask Jesus to be present with you and to make your heart willing to accept His rest.
Praying for both of you, Raven and Lynne.
Colleen |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 444
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 10:50 am: | |
Lynne, if I may, a book recommendation:
More Jesus, Less Religion by Arterburn and Felton.
This book really helped me cling tightly to Christ while all the dust continue to settle around me. |
Lynne
Registered user
Username: Lynne
Post Number: 86
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 4:16 pm: | |
Thank you for the encouragement. I purchased the book via half.com today. I will pray and read as much of the bible as I can outside of my work.
I've been praying for the will of God for years and only lately have I really felt productive about doing things that I've been praying would get done. There is something truely amazing about when the Holy Spirit lives in you how you just work His will without effort. I just know what to do, I don't have to stop and pray about it first necessarily or wonder why I'm not doing what I should do. In terms of spirituality, I do feel awkwardly childish sometimes.
Exchanging obedience to Jesus with the things that I do for true rest in Jesus always is certainly comforting and takes some getting used to. Thank you for your prayers.
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Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 445
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 4:49 pm: | |
Lynne, Jesus said to you "Come unto me all ye who are heavy laden and I will give you rest."
Please don't feel that you must exchange obedience for rest. Resting in Him IS obedience to Him! |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 701
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 7:09 am: | |
You know...I have seen little difference in my life when I was tithing or when I wasn't. The Lord has been consistantly good to me throughout my life, reguardless of what "I" have done.
I will say this...when I give to others, as the Holy Spirit asks me to do...I get a huge blessing...it feels good. When I was mechanically tithing 10%...and we weren't making it to begin with...and bills were going unpaid...and the hole was getting deeper and deeper and deeper...that didn't feel good. Yet we always had food, shelter, and warmth.
My SDA brother-in-law witnessed at dinner last week how much better things are now that they are tithing the 10%...though the wife (who pays the bills) mentioned it was tough to hand it over...I tried to explain giving under the New Covenant...but they didn't even know what the NC was...vs. OC. So I gave up. |
Jackob
Registered user
Username: Jackob
Post Number: 41
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:17 am: | |
Dear Colleen, I hope that the article you mentioned were the longest in the next Proclamation. Like other people here, I can't wait to read it. When it will come? I think that articles like this are very useful for us, because our experiences are unique, in the sense that we relate with people which were not under cultist mind control. We share a very similar experience, and because of this, we need each other. Bless the Lord for He has provided this forum
Jackob |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2943
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 4:12 pm: | |
Jackob, Proclamation went to the bindery today. They plan to drop it at the post office Wednesday. The overseas subscriptions go out from a port in Los Angeles probably a day later (possibly the same day).
Yes, the article I mentioned is the featured article. There are some other awesome articles, too--one by our own "Thomas 1"!
Colleen |
Jackob
Registered user
Username: Jackob
Post Number: 42
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 4:50 am: | |
Colleen, thank you. I wait especially the electronic PDF edition. because for the other I have a longer time to wait. When it will be send the PDF edition? |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2020
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 8:45 am: | |
I am like Pheeki. I have seen no difference between when I paid tithe because I had to and now when I give from the heart. In about 1985 I quit paying tithe because I paid it first then did not have enought money to pay my bills and had to pay late fees. I felt that was wrong, so I quit paying tithe and guess what, God blessed me anyway. I started paying tithe again when I thought I would be baptized into the SDA church again. The I found the web site about EGW and the rest is history. One of the first subjects I studied was about tithing. I had found out about tithing 4 years ago, when I was visiting my brother in Montana. He was attending the Messianic Jewish congregation and I was reading his Jewish Bible and, looking back now, God opened the Bible to Deut 14 where it talks about how God wanted the people to tithe. After that I did some research in the Bible about jewelry and found out how it.
Looking back I see how God has led me. At the time things happened, I thought I did it or it was just a coincident. It was all planned by God.
How Great God is!! How awesome.
Diana |
Javagirl
Registered user
Username: Javagirl
Post Number: 204
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 8:04 am: | |
Lisa, I dont know if you will see this down here, but I get you.
And Lynne, Its good to see how far you have come!.
Lori
llrad@bellsouth.net |
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