| Author | Message | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2005 |
what does one do on saturday now? sometimes I think that I'm supoosed to be doing something or rather not doing something,like last week i went to the mall before the Sat evening church service I've been going to,or doing a load of wash or heaven forbid have the tv on,sometimes it all feels wrong.my daughter who is at school comes home, she is still attending a SDA church she is concerned,confused too,anyone been there done that? tomorrow before church im going out to breakfast and then to barnes and noble any good books one can reccomend,i'll probably be looking over my shoulder the whole time,hahah | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 414 Registered: 7-2000 |
You just do whatever you want to (or need to) do. Then, go to church Sat. night, and then you have all day Sunday to goof around with as well. How about that? You actually get a full 2 day weekend! Don't worry, you'll get used to it......  Bill | ||
| Anotherseeker Registered user Username: Anotherseeker Post Number: 29 Registered: 8-2005 |
Wolfgang i share and empathise with your current situation. I too am still coming to terms with my NEW Saturdays not attending SDA church and just being at home or doing whatever. I remember one Saturday being in the car most of the afternoon with my friend as he ran some errands and i went and bought a sandwich{the only real anti-sabbath behaviour} When i got home i did feel a little guilty that i had just had a nice day driving round with my friend....BUT.... maybe i am just taking advantage of my new found freedom. Even as i type i am watching the Winslow Boy on tv and i feel absolutely NO guilt about it. However i am watching it because there is not much decent tv these days and so i take advantage of every program that comes on that i see fit for Christian viewing. I also sometimes ponder going to see my friends at church....but after the service especially after AY. Fortunately my main friends at SDA are not really SDA and have the same outlook on the Gospel as myself....HOWEVER they maintain that Father would have them there. One of them was even thrown out of church about 7 years ago for disrupting the servive on a number of occasions and has stood outside ever since and preaches to them as they come out about not been attached to a religious system. My point is that it makes it easier for me to go there and fellowship outside with him and the others who normally hang outside in the afternoon and they only go into church JUST before the sermon starts. I do not understand how they can still be there...well i mean the 2 that go into the morning service...i understand the protest of the one outside a little more. I am still mindful that it is Sabbath on Saturday but i just go with the flow and i try to continue as normal which for me is not far of sabbath keeping anyway as i live a quiet life on a daily basis. Last Saturday i put the washing machine on though. Its a strange place to be at...trying to maintain a semblance of a normal day but STILL having that Sabbath HOLD and memory sitting right in front of you. In the early hours of this morning they had a religious program on tv and Judaism was included. Basically the Adventists seem to have just copied the Jewish practices. I wonder how the Jews feel about SDA, WCG, Seventh day Baptist, Seventh-Day Pentecostal... stepping into their time honoured tradition?? You said you were going to church...so are you still attending SDA Wolfgang? | ||
| Vchowdhury1 Registered user Username: Vchowdhury1 Post Number: 147 Registered: 7-2004 |
Wolfgang, I sympathize with your situation. Believe me. I went through it all. I studied my way out of the SDA church almost 4 1/2 years ago, and for 4 years I had "sabbath guilt". This came when I tried to do anything "secular" on Saturdays (The first time my 12 year old son and I went to Disneyland on a Saturday, I was sure the Lord would "strike me dead"). After I left the SDA church, I began attending a Seventh-Day Baptist church just so that I can remain a "sabbath keeper" and contain my guilt. But believe me when I say, all of this guilt comes from years of "brain-washing" from the SDA church. They "brain-washed" us by telling us that going to church on Sunday is the "Mark of the Beast", and by telling us that "the SDA church is the TRUE church and all other religions are "Babylon", and if we leave, we are lost", and all the other lies about the Pope changing sabbath to Sunday, and the other propoganda written by Ellen G. White, and all the other lies and scare tactics in regards to the "Sunday Law", and bla bla bla...No wonder we feel guilty!! Its just like trying to leave any other cult. For years we are made to feel that if we leave this cult...we are lost!! But, if you keep studying your Bible (especially the New testaments Galations, Romans, Colossians,1 Corinthians - and all the other writings of the apostles in regards to the New Covenant, and if you keep studying the history of inconsistancies of the SDA church, and all the other "sabbatarian" organizations, and how they changed and "flip flopped" through the years. And when you understand that the SDA church is preaching "a different gospel" like the apostle Paul warned us about (anything that the Apostles, Jesus, and the Disciples did NOT teach, for example, the ramplings of Ellen G. White), and all the propoganda about the Law of Moses being divided into the "moral" and "ceremonial" laws (this too is completely un-biblical. There is no place in the Bible where the Apostles, Jesus, or the Desciples divided the law into "moral" and "ceremonial". The Law of Moses, was the Law of Moses. Period.)eventually your "guilt" will subside. Notice that in the New Testament, there were several instances when people came up to Jesus and the Apostles and asked what they must do to be saved. There is no where in scripture where they were told that they had to "keep the sabbath". Understand the Jesus is more than just "keeping the Sabbath". He is more than just the worship of a "day". He is our friend and Saviour. It does not matter what day we worship and praise him on. Just as long as we worship and praise. It took sometime for my "sabbath guilt" to subside. Now, I attend church on Sunday or any day that I want, and have no guilt at all and Saturday is now like any other day of the week. --Valerie | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2005 |
Iam attending a non denominational church they have two Sat night services and two sunday morning services. thanks you all,I smiled as i have gone through the exact same emotions you talk about Im sure it will all take time,I dont think I could go to a SDA church again and listen to the same old sermon,sing the same old 1800 hymns again ,the church I go to is very contemporay we clap(heaven forbid) and praise the Lord very uplifting. thanks again for your support glad your all here!! Happpy in Jesus!! | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 872 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dear Wolfgang, It might help you to really see what you are leaving behind to go to the thread named "They are at it again..." The discussions on the website referenced there are between conservative Seventh-day Adventists. They are each talking to other Seventh-day Adventists and they are trying to make the Scriptures and their Spirit of Prophecy books agree with each other. The results are the theology they come up with in their discussions. It will send a chill down your back and send you outside to mow your lawn. The weekend is for rest. It will take some time for you to adjust to freedom in Christ, so don't push it too hard. Remember that Jesus loves you, died to save you, and has given you eternal life based on your faith in His Sacrifice, His Promises, His Faith in the Father. This is a gradual process and you may want to just spend some of your initial Sabbaths reading the scriptures unfettered by Adventist logic. It will be a real adventure and very enlightening. Bathe in God's love for a few Sabbaths, and before long they will become Saturdays and you can just have a normal life. | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 205 Registered: 10-2005 |
Wolfgang, Just enjoy it! Do whatever you want. Just begin your day in prayer and read the bible. Pray that you will be lead to do the will of God today. He is delighted in our knowledge of Him. Do this also on Sunday and Monday and all the rest of the week. Today is as important as any other day. Don't waste it away! If you need rest, then rest. If you need to work, then work. Just don't forget to Praise Him in whatever you do. He loves you no matter what! Lynne | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 620 Registered: 7-2004 |
Everyday is "Sabbath" at our house! We rest in Jesus 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. Sabbath growing up meant...ONE DAY to: listen to sacred music, think of God, get our Bibles out, think of His blessings, do special things (take a walk together as a family), watch what we said to each other, go to the nursing home to do something nice for someone else, AND... one day to wish the day would hurry up and end!! "Sabbath" now is EVERYDAY to: praise God, pray together, study His Word, count our blessings, listen to praise/worship music , enjoy the "quirks" of other people, help others willingly, enjoy each other because we know God put us all together... What a difference seven days of worship make instead of just one day!! Praising Jesus for His yoke! Denise | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2197 Registered: 3-2004  |
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN Denise. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3217 Registered: 12-2003  |
Denise, thank you for sharing your "Sabbath comparisons"! I completely agree with you. Worfgang, try asking Jesus to put his Holy Spirit in the place in your heart where the Sabbath has been. Ask Him to take away the bondage you have had to the day that took the place of Jesus Himself as your Rest, and ask Him to fill your heart with Himself. He is faithful. When you are willing to let Jesus be your all-in-all and surrender the day to Him, He will surprise you with a day-to-day awareness of His presence and peace that will surpass anything the Sabbath ever provided. With prayers for you, Colleen | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2005 |
thanks to you all I have gained by being involved here,not alot of people i can share with ,and wouldnt you know it im in heart of Battle creek,anyone else here in Michigan? my inlaws told me today that a family memebr today is interested in the sabbath,and i have a wonderful inlaw family really full of God's love when i see my husbands grandparents I see Jesus in their eyes,but when she told me that this person was interested in the Sabbath,my still little voice said what about being intersted in Jesus? I dont know what to do because truly if it wasnt for my husbands family I wouldnt have known Christ,they arent all EGW ,they are the bible only folks,although I have come to believe you cant leave her out because someone is speaking about her somewhere,but you know what I mean they dont judge,like so many do. Anyway thanks so much for sharing, always in His Love,Dawn | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 558 Registered: 4-2000  |
Denise, I also liked your Sabbath comparisons. Actually, I downloaded them. In awe of Jesus, the True Sabbath Rest, Dennis Fischer | ||
| Bb Registered user Username: Bb Post Number: 116 Registered: 7-2004 |
This reminds me of the other thread where the Mormons freak out if they don't guard the edges of their "Sabbath" i.e. Sunday. A lot of guilt is self-induced or denomination induced!! | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2005 |
http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,49-1-138-31,00.html "The prophet Spencer W. Kimball counseled: "The Sabbath is a holy day in which to do worthy and holy things. Abstinence from work and recreation is important but insufficient. The Sabbath calls for constructive thoughts and acts, and if one merely lounges about doing nothing on the Sabbath, he is breaking it. To observe it, one will be on his knees in prayer, preparing lessons, studying the gospel, meditating, visiting the ill and distressed, sleeping, reading wholesome material, and attending all the meetings of that day to which he is expected. [Failure] to do these proper things is a transgression on the omission side." Our beloved prophet Gordon B. Hinckley has promised: "If you have any doubt about the wisdom, the divinity of observing the Sabbath Day, . . . stay home and gather your family about you, teach them the gospel, enjoy yourselves together on the Sabbath Day, come to your meetings, participate. You will know that the principle of the Sabbath is a true principle which brings with it great blessings." "Of all people on the earth, the Latter-day Saints must lead out in sanctifying this appointed day each week. "Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees," said the Lord, "ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." "To this very day, "the matter of Sabbath observance remains . . . as one of the great tests which divides the righteous from the worldly and wicked," said Elder Bruce R. McConkie." "I love the Sabbath day! It has blessed my family in countless ways. I bear a testimony born of personal experience that the commandments of the Lord are "true and faithful." "I know you will be happier, enjoy greater peace, and find your lives made glad as you witness the miracles that come to each person and family who make the sacrifice of keeping this eternal covenant." "I love our Lord and Savior. I know He lives and that this is His Church and kingdom on earth. I know He is at once a just and merciful God, who loves His children with all the tenderness of a kind and loving Father. May we, in turn, "offer a sacrifice unto the Lord [our] God in righteousness, even that of a broken heart and a contrite spirit,"24I pray, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen." http://www.closedonsundays.com/ensign.html http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,605153484,00.html "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has consistently made plain that in matters of public policy it is not opposed to responsible consumption of alcoholic beverages by informed adults," Bills said." "As for Sundays, Bills said no parts of the new project will be open ó even areas in the malls not owned by the church." http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600143696,00.html Here is an interesting one! http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600128534,00.html "Jews face a Passover conundrum It starts on Sabbath, causing a conflict of religious dietary rules" " And what about bread on the Sabbath? "In terms of the requirement to eat bread or bread product, there are only two options," Elefant said. "Both aren't great." Both involved eating outside. "The first is to have small rolls prepared for the Sabbath meals and eat them," Elefant said, "not at your table, but find a little corner of a porch and start the meal, and either eat them up or flush them down the toilet. "If you don't want to take a chance on that, the other possibility is to eat egg matzah. That is not something that should be eaten for Passover ó only for people who are not well ó and that is how you avoid the problem of not eating matzah on the holiday." Mandl suggests that families "go in the back yard or someplace away from your eating area like the garage, make a blessing over a roll and flush the remains or give it to the birds." | ||
| Zjason Registered user Username: Zjason Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2005 |
Yikes! talk about being weighed down! | ||
| Jtree Registered user Username: Jtree Post Number: 219 Registered: 5-2000 |
This is funny.. Check it out. it's calle Ask Moses http://www.askmoses.com Look it over. Post your re-actions! I give you one..quote from there. ============ What are the 39 melachot? A. The Torah says, "Do not perform melachah on Shabbat." Melachah means work. But what's "work?" The melachot, plural for labors in Hebrew, are the 39 categories of action that the Torah interprets as work that may not be performed on Shabbat. B. When the Torah was given, our ancestors were a large pack of nomadic desert denizens--the original Wandering Jews. It was less than two months after the Exodus when Moses--that's me--came down Mt. Sinai with the Torah, containing the charge to keep Shabbat. "Don't work on Shabbat!" charged the Torah. "But we don't work anyway," rejoined the Jews. "This is the desert, remember? Nobody has a job here!" At that point, Moses stepped in and pointed out that work was done: the multifaceted efforts made to construct the Mishkan--the portable, collapsible temple that moved with the camp from place to place. He explained that work associated with Mishkan-making was what the Torah meant by "work," and that these things should not be done on Shabbat from then till eternity. And so it remained. C. Each of the 39 melachot break down into subcategories called tuldot (pronounced TOOL-dote), which means offspring. Because of their "children," the 39 melachot are also referred to as av melachot, meaning father categories. ========== I fell over reading the part 'On sabbath, don't work" "But we don't work anyway," rejoined the Jews. "This is the desert, remember? Nobody has a job here!" That was ....funny! | ||
| Dt Registered user Username: Dt Post Number: 78 Registered: 4-2005 |
If you really want to get confused, bring up the subject of how to keep the Sabbath in Sabbath School sometime. The responses are all over the map, based on guilt threshholds. DT | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1190 Registered: 3-2005 |
I think I remember some ridiculous article in the Review asking the most important question,"Should we have sex on Sabbath?" Stan | ||
| Snowboardingmom Registered user Username: Snowboardingmom Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2005 |
For Christmas, my husband and I got the book "Family Sabbath Traditions To Bless Your Heart and Home" from his parents. (Kind of ironic given our current questioning status of which they know nothing about). It is 141 pages about the importance of properly keeping the Sabbath and ways to properly keep the Sabbath. There's even a chapter entitled "Sabbath-keeping families in the last days". Here is an exerpt from the Preface: "I have come a long way from not keeping the Sabbath at all. I was a teenager working as a cashier in a theater on Friday evening and staying home on the Sabbath Day to rest. I used to feel bored, so I would clean the dresser drawers. With age and maturity I began to experience more and more appropriate ways of keeping God's special day. But though I have come a long way I FEEL THERE STILL IS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT. And maybe that is where you are too...searching." As I read this, it was so obvious to me the writer's own personal insecurity in the "have I done enough?" way. And this is coming from someone who feels 'expert enough' to write 141 pages about Sabbath keeping, yet she feels she still needs to strive for improvement. Wow... I'm beginnning to realize more and more the paralyzing inadequacies that legalism brings. A few months ago, I would have thought, "You're right, I do need to improve the way I keep Sabbath. I'm not quite feeling the joy I'm suppose to feel, or I feel burdened when I shouldn't", etc., etc. I can just imagine the guilt that would flood my head. She's right, I am searching. But thankfully, I'm slowly replacing my guilt with peace. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2005 |
Jtree - That is absolutely hillarious. Gilbert | ||
| Jtree Registered user Username: Jtree Post Number: 223 Registered: 5-2000 |
Try on this heavy size serman.. It's very deep... http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-223.htm | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 882 Registered: 7-2004 |
Wonderful sermon! To the point! I liked in particular the mention of God's heros from the book of Hebrews, how they had NOT obtained rest through Sabbath, but had received rest through admitting that they couldn't keep the law so they threw themselves upon the mercy of God. That is how everyone obtains rest. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3236 Registered: 12-2003 |
Snowboardingmom, I understand your response to that book. I used to agonize over my Sabbath-observance, not only in my early, dyed-in-the-wool Adventist days but also during my last "evangelical Adventist" years in the church. For several years I lived in a schizy state of almost casually dismissing Ellen as "not important for me" (but of course never admitting she might be a false prophet!) while internally agonizing over the fact that I finished washing the kitchen floor after sundown or wasn't able to prepare Sabbath dinner ahead of time becuase I was working. I was perpetually mired in guilt and rationalizing. Oh, my goodness...when I finally figured out that Jesus IS my rest, wow! I still had a huge spiritual battle when I decided to act on my conviction and knowledge that He was all I needed by deliberately doing laundry, working on a client's project, etc. on Saturday. When Richard and I finally threw all of it on God's mercy, though, and claimed Jesus' finished work as our only security and rest, we were not prepared for the palpable sense of His presence we felt every day of the week. That amazing reality has never gone away. As Richad said to me with surprise and a hint of awe after the first week we embraced Jesus' rest instead of Sabbath, "I always hoped to experience Jesus this way on Sabbath, but I never did." I completely know what you're feeling as you read that book's introduction! Colleen | ||
| Mrsbrian3 Registered user Username: Mrsbrian3 Post Number: 34 Registered: 8-2005 |
From the flip side of the coin, I envy those of you who attempted to "keep" Sabbath. Brian3 and I were too liberal in our observance of it by my family's standards. My brother told me recently that he thought that was why we really left the SDA church was so that we could do what we wanted on Sabbath without feeling guilty. That hurts. A lot. I wish that we'd have been "better" SDAs so that our ministry now would be more powerful. Kim | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1195 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jtree, Thanks for posting that sermon by John MacArthur on the Sabbath. MacArthur has a better understanding of this issue than most of his Reformed brothers do,( except for John Reisinger at www.soundofgrace.com ). MacArthur even wrote a strong recommendation right on Dale Ratzlaff's book Sabbath in Christ. Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3241 Registered: 12-2003 |
Kim, I'm praying that God will ease your mind re: your quality of Sabbath-keeping and Adventism when you were in the church. You need to know that your brother's accusation about your leaving the church because you wanted to do whatever on the Sabbath is not specifically tailored for you. That is one of the most common Adventists rationales across the board when they're confronted with those who leave for the sake of the gospel. Think about it: they don't make that accusation to people who leave the Lord entirely and go into the world! I always find that such a remarkable fact. If a person leaves Adventism and totally blows off Christianity in the process, their Adventis loved ones don't say to them, "You just want to do whatever you want on the Sabbath." When they are faced with a person's deepened commitment to Jesus and their new, real relationship with Him, they can't feel superior in the way they can if they watch someone throw conviction to the wind. They know they can't argue with the reailty and validity of your new life in Christ. They feel convicted, but they can't examine their own beliefs. Instead, they blame: "You just wanted to break the Sabbath..." No matter how well you may or may not have kept the Sabbath, you would have heard that accusation. The reason, of course, is that the Sabbath is the one thing they MUST do, but they all know they CANNOT do it right, no matter how hard they try. There is some concealed envy in that accusation, too. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2210 Registered: 3-2004 |
This thread reminds me of the last Christmas I attended the SDA church. In our SS class, the teacher asked us what we wanted to give Jesus for his birthday. You can laugh over my gift, because I did when I realized what I had done. I wanted to give Jesus the gift of keeping the sabbath and guarding the edges. When I decided to do that, it seems it got harder to do. When I learned that I cannot do anything to win God's favor and that all I had to do was love and accept Jesus, I realized how dumb my gift was. Thank You God for Jesus. You are awesome. Diana | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 267 Registered: 5-2004 |
I go with the "every day is Sabbath" theory myself. I never was SDA, but my husband used to be. And our understanding of the Bible is that the Old Covenant told us to give a 10% tithe to God and dedicate one day of week (Sat.) in reverence to Him. The New Covenant isn't about symbols and percentages. it is about giving ourselves over 10% tithe. I devote 100 % of our finances to God, and ask Him what to do with all or any of it. I don't give God 1 day a week, I dedicate every day to living for Him, letting Him work in my life. Our pastor said this week that 3 things are true of your time this year... 1)your time is limited 2)all of it WILL be spent 3)someone will decide how your time is spent -the conclusion is that we should let God decide how it is spent. In other words, it doesn't matter to our salvation if we watch TV on a Saturday. But it does matter to God what we do with our time in general because He has so much to accomplish through us. I guess the answer for my husband and I is to seek Him. Dont' worry about what day of the week it is, just seek His Wisdom and Guidance for EVERY moment you spend. He isn't a slave driver, He probably isn't going to have you out mowing lawns for old ladies or witnessing to the homeless in your every spare moment. He blesses us with time for ourselves, time for our families, and then wonderful opportunities to be a part of His work around us. Sorry for the tangent, :0) That is just my outlook on it. -tanya- |
