| Author | Message | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 175 Registered: 10-2005 |
Ellen White said, Satan is shaking the Adventist church.... I heard this frequently while attending Adventist churches. Ellen White speaks of a struggle between Satan and the Lord and shows them to be in something of a power struggle as written in the Great Controversy. When I read the bible, I see that there is no struggle - the Lord is in charge. Does this sound like a struggle? Mathew 4:9-11* God curses us when we are lyed to and we believe the lie. Isn't that what happened in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve? I also looked later in Genesis and see how Pharaoh was cursed for the lie of Abram. **Genesis 11:14-20 How many times are many of us Americans lied to and cursed for it? Has it ever happened to anyone that they were told they could afford something like a new house or car or something else that we couldn't really afford. Who is cursed financially for that, the salespeople? I could introspectively continue, but everyone can see something like this in their own life experience. I believe I was cursed as an adventist because I was being lied to and believed it. If I did my homework, I would not have been deceived. Like Pharaoh, he trusted the word of a man. The serpent/Satan pay for the lies and everyone pays in some way for lying. God is in charge! Ezekiel 13 is a very good chapter to read. It reminds me of Ellen White. False Prophets Condemned - "....Say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination: 'Hear the word of the LORD! 3 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing!"............... Notice the serpent who deceived eve is below the feet of man.*** The Lord is in Charge. Psalm 91**** _________________________________________________________ *Mathew 4:9-11 9"All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me." 10Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only." 11Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him. **Genesis 11:14-20 14 When Abram came to Egypt, the Egyptians saw that she was a very beautiful woman. 15 And when Pharaoh's officials saw her, they praised her to Pharaoh, and she was taken into his palace. 16 He treated Abram well for her sake, and Abram acquired sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys, menservants and maidservants, and camels. 17 But the LORD inflicted serious diseases on Pharaoh and his household because of Abram's wife Sarai. 18 So Pharaoh summoned Abram. "What have you done to me?" he said. "Why didn't you tell me she was your wife? 19 Why did you say, 'She is my sister,' so that I took her to be my wife? Now then, here is your wife. Take her and go!" 20 Then Pharaoh gave orders about Abram to his men, and they sent him on his way, with his wife and everything he had. *** Genesis 3:13-15 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. ****Psalm 91 1 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty. [a] 2 I will say [b] of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust." 3 Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare and from the deadly pestilence. 4 He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart. 5 You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day, 6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness, nor the plague that destroys at midday. 7 A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you. 8 You will only observe with your eyes and see the punishment of the wicked. 9 If you make the Most High your dwellingó even the LORD, who is my refuge- 10 then no harm will befall you, no disaster will come near your tent. 11 For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways; 12 they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone. 13 You will tread upon the lion and the cobra; you will trample the great lion and the serpent. 14 "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name. 15 He will call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him. 16 With long life will I satisfy him and show him my salvation." | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3163 Registered: 12-2003  |
Lynne, you make some really insightful points. I am increasingly aware that even though we are born into sin, we are also held responsible for remaining dead and resisting God's grace. Before we can experience the forgiveness of God that allows us to forgive others, we must first acknowledge our sin and repent. God's grace "wakes us up"; we can at that point resist Him or not. Romans 1:18-20 and Ephesians 4:17-19 sum it up. Colleen | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 858 Registered: 7-2004 |
Every time I hear about how the SDA's are calling this "The Shaking Time" I want to take that person and shake them for a moment to see if that will bring them out of the EGW trance. In order to be shaken out of Adventism and into the Gospel you need to be willing to be taught by the scriptures AND willing to see that you have not really had your mind around the end all and be all of religiousness. I am so grateful that my eyes were finally opened, yet I ache for those that I love who still remain blinded by that "other gospel." There is an axiom I learned a long time ago, and I think it could apply here. When we are having a hard time learning something we can sometimes look at the subject matter as being simply awful, but when we finally get the synapses working we're inclined to think it is awfully simple. For us, who have finally learned the True Gospel the whole thing seems awfully simple and we can't see why everybody doesn't understand it. I think they just might still be in the simply awful phase of things. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2165 Registered: 3-2004  |
Once the EGW lens were removed from my eyes, it was so simple to see the plan of salvation. I sometimes want to shake people, like Belva said above. But I just have to let God do the shaking. He knows how to get to each individual. He is so AWESOME. Diana | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 176 Registered: 10-2005 |
Colleen - What is so scary about the SDA church is the cleverness of the deception. They make everything sound so much like other churches - i.e. I once watched "It is Written" where they clearly stated Grace of God is not from works and showed people all over the world in religions attempting to please God through works. Much of the SDA literature speaks of accepting Jesus as our Saviour. And coming into the church we are taught to repent of our sins and to forgive as well. Much of the language spoken by the SDA church appeared to be the same as any other church to me and that is why people are drawn into it. I thought I was being taught the same gospel as other churches and most people in the church probably think that along with Protestants of other denominations. I just thought like everyone else they worshiped on Saturday because of the 10 commandments and ate healthy - everything else was the same as other churches! As long as the book by Walter Martin doesn't call Adventism a cult and other denominations allow themselves to go no further than this, the SDA church will be at an advantage. To me this what puts the leadership in many Protestant churches in the same category as those Adventists in the SDA church that are deceived by the SDA church. Think about it, a good law enforcement investigator would never go to the criminal or mob and ask questions. No, they would investigate below the surface, undercover. If this was done in the SDA church, it would have been classified a cult. But no, nobody prominent has ever bothered in the last 50 years. You would think with how far the world has come in technology, it would have been done by now. The church has their brainwashing techniques down to a science as well as the way to play the media. It is very scary. But if true christian leaders really cared about the salvation of others, they would not rely on the word of only one man from so many years ago. A lot of Americans are complacent, Christians are not excluded. We mostly want to make the most money with the least amount of effort and it shows in other areas of our lives as well. When I watched the DVD, Seventh-day Adventism The Spirit Behind the Church the former adventists in it grateful to be free in Christ and would encourage others to read the bible only. But I definately felt their sadness that I could see for those who are still in the church. I believe God shook me out the SDA church. There were too many problems keeping me away from the church and I just kept praying and asking God why he kept putting up roadblocks keeping me from attending the SDA church. Physically I stopped attending, but getting my mind away from the teachings of the church is a slow process. Many Adventists are like abused children who have had parents beat them and tell them they love them and believe they are loved. They turn around and abuse their own children and one day learn the truth and stop. It is sad. But God delivers us if we sincerely seek him. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1151 Registered: 3-2005 |
Lynne, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. As I have stated before, I had the special privilege of knowing Dr. Martin personally, and even acting as his physician at times. Shortly before he died, on at least two occasions, he admitted he was lied to by the SDA church, and admitted he made a mistake in moving SDAs out of the cult arena. He never got a chance to say this in writing before his premature death. At this point I would be hard pressed to blame Martin 16 years after his death. Yes, he admitted his error privately, and he expressed his deep concerns personally to me. The SDA church is as you say so adept at presenting their beliefs as being orthodox when they are not. But cult experts who are scholarly only evaluate what is written in their official church literature. Martin, and Hanegraf after him have somehow not been able to discern any blatant damning heresies in their official belief statements. Hanegraf on his web site says that he has based his determination on many interviews with SDA leaders and members. However, there are some evangelical leaders such as Robert Morey and John MacArthur who see the problems with SDA theology and are not fooled. John MacArthur even compared EGW with Jezebel mentioned in Rev. 2. But MacArthur states the current evangelical problem very well when it comes to evaluating false religions such as Catholicism and Adventism. He says "the evangelical church is woefully ignorant and lacking in discernment" BUT also "this is matched by their cowardice". And he illustrated this by the recent Pope's death with all these so-called great leaders extolling the virtues of a man who taught the most blatantly false doctrines imaginable that are outlined and documented by MacArthur on a famous tape that I have referred to before. So, if the pope can be regarded as this great man who taught the way of salvation, then how will they ever believe the SDA church is harmful? Stan | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 178 Registered: 10-2005 |
Stan, Do you know where I could find the John MacArthur tape? I don't want to sound like I'm blaming Walter Martin personally, I'm not. I was really suggesting more that it has been many years since he did research on the Adventists and a lot of things change over the years, like how professionals do research. Most of us agree on this forum that we have been lied to by the Adventist church. I think Ephesians 6:12 is what everyone is up against. That is why we are told to have the Armor of God in Ephesians. I'm just glad the gospel finally reached me after all these years. Many evangelicals don't understand Adventism because it isn't personal to them. Once a loved one gets caught up in a church like this for many years and they see the problems, perhaps they might feel a little more interested in getting the facts straight. Were talking about eternal death and life. We are a reactionary society. There was only better security in America after 9/11, not that it wasn't needed sooner and there weren't warnings. Like a parent who loses a child to drugs, only then will a parent want to go after the drug dealers at all costs. If Hanegraaf worked in the media and needed to find out if a particular business was a front for an elaborate drug smuggling operation (that tells him they are not a drug smuggling operation), would he just ask the management and staff about their operations because they look respectable and do great things in their communities, they appear to be telling the truth. Of course he wouldn't, not if he was sincere. My husband is a former Catholic and always referred to the pope as a dead man walking. I would get mad at him for his sarcasm. I come from a family with many former Catholics including my parents. I see the connection with Catholicism and Adventism and understand my famiy better now. There are many Catholics and Former Catholics that need prayers also. Thank you for mentioning them. Lynne | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1152 Registered: 3-2005 |
Lynne, thanks for your comments. You are absolutely right. Hanegraf is also compromised in so many ways. I am also reminded that even Dale Ratzlaff stopped short of calling Adventism a cult. If you read the book "Cultic Doctrine" he just stops short of using the "cult" word. It is true that cult is not a Biblical term, and in our culture "cult" connotates really weird groups, so sometimes using cult is counterproductive. I prefer the terms "counterfeit Christianity", and false gospel and false Christ, as these hold up better to Biblical terminology. If you would like to get John MacArthur's CD, just email me and I will send it to you for free. That also goes for anyone else who wants this eye-opening CD. You can get my email address from Colleen. Stan | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 179 Registered: 10-2005 |
Stan, Thanks for the definition and offering the CD. I'll email Colleen. Conterfeit christianity, false gospel and false Christ does sound much better. You are right about the word cult. Most Adventists and Catholics just are not the cult types (as many see cults) and it isn't fair to call them that. I'm all for sticking with the bible! Lynne | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2166 Registered: 3-2004 |
Stan, I would like McArthur's CD also. I will e-mail Colleen. Diana | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 547 Registered: 4-2000  |
Stan, I would also like the MacArthur CD. I am impressed with his perception of biblical Christianity. My postal address is: 4820 South 54th Street; Lincoln, Nebraska 68516-1817 (E-mail: dennisfischer@neb.rr.com). Thank you very much! In awe of Calvary, Dennis Fischer | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 548 Registered: 4-2000 |
Colleen, Sylvia and I watched the video entitled, "Called to be Free" a few hours ago. The local WCG minister, an old friend, dropped it off after their Sunday morning services. Admittedly, Sylvia and I cried during several segments. We could completely relate to the storyline. I was particularly impressed with the miraculous results of the person that walked around the Ambassador College campus praying for them. Indeed, we serve a prayer-answering God. Interestingly, as I type these lines, a retired SDA minister is viewing this video. I just returned from delivering it to his home. Since I want to share it with many others, I told him that I needed it back within hours. Truly, the Evangelical concept of community lighthouse ministries is effective. The new WCG now heartily recommends that their members share their faith in this manner. I too am most grateful, as the song in the video proclaimed, that "He knows my name." Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3169 Registered: 12-2003 |
Dennis, thank you for sharing your and Sylvia's reactions. Yes, I was also particularly impressed that people including Jack Hayford of The Church by the Way used to prayer walk around the Ambassador campus. God does answer prayers! We showed the video to Adventist relatives last night. They were remarkably unimpressed, commenting on the complete fallacy of the old WCG beliefs. As people began discussing their Sabbath-keeping on the movie, our relatives became silent. When the interviewees told their testimonies of sadness, loss, and deep gratitude to God for remvoing the veil and awakening them to the truth in Scripture, one of our audience "checked out" and began distractingly talking to the dog and trying to get him to play with him. Interesting reactions. Colleen | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 135 Registered: 3-2005 |
How can I get this video? Lisa | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 64 Registered: 7-2005 |
Lisa I posted on this link http://rtinker.powweb.com/discus/discus/messages/11/3764.html?1136781873 how you can watch the video online. There are instructions also for those who want to purchase the video, VHS or DVD. | ||
| Anotherseeker Registered user Username: Anotherseeker Post Number: 27 Registered: 8-2005 |
I tried 3 times to watch the WCG video on line. Once in medium resolution,once in low,i downloaded the google player and it just keeps stopping every few seconds...SO FRUSTRATING!! |
