| Author |
Message |
Tisha
Registered user
Username: Tisha
Post Number: 172
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 3:19 pm: |     |
Colleen and Stan - I agree that the word "surrender" can be used and understood in different ways, probably depending on our background, personalities, etc.
For me it is a thing I struggle with, not only in my spiritual life, but in all things! I like to be in control! Things can be very scarey otherwise. But I do know that it just doesn't work well when I don't let God lead me. I find I keep taking back "control" and doing it MY way. Then I realize what I've done, and the mess I've made, and try to "let go and let God". This struggle is what makes me wonder if I really do have faith or not. I know that this is just what Satan wants, but I get discouraged.
People talk about head knowledge versus heart knowledge. And it seems that for many, they understand the head part but have problems with the heart part. For me it's just the opposite. I feel it in my heart and soul, but my head always questions! My head tells me that a lot of what I read in the Bible can't be true, that it is just too fantastic, that it is somehow not real, like a fairy tale. But my heart knows differently. Does that make sense? It's my head that gets in the way! That's why I keep coming back to "it's so simple"! I believe it really is simple, but my head makes it seem complicated. So I try not to analyze everything so much and just let my heart (and the Holy Spirit) lead, since thinking too much hasn't done me much good!
I hope this makes sense! I feel like I go around in circles sometimes. All I know is that leaving the SDA Church was the right thing to do. I've learned and grown so much since then. I really do have an overall sense of Peace that I didn't have before. But when I get worn down emotionally doubts start creeping in and I start to wonder if I'm really only fooling myself.
I'm not asking anyone to tell me they know I'm saved - that's between God and me. But there are days when I do get discouraged - like now. So thanks for the encouragement.
-tisha |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 1143
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 4:57 pm: | |
Tisha,
These are the kinds of doubts most of us have who are saved, and I would have to say from reading most of your posts in the last year, that your struggle is like many saved persons'struggles. It is the devil who would like to create the doubts as you say. But just the fact that you care about this issue as much as you do, is strong evidence that you are indeed saved, and it is important to keep reading the Bible and claiming the wonderful promises of assurance of salvation. And even if a person like you who is struggling with these doubts keeps studying the Bible, especially concentrating on John, 1 John, and Romans, and just in case they weren't saved yet, there is a strong likelihood that they will become saved, since the promise is sure that those who truly seek Him with all their hearts will become saved, even if they are not already saved, because faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God, and God will save that person in His timing--all by His marvelous grace!
Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3161
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 6:43 pm: | |
Stan, I believe you are right; I've looked for "surrender" in the NT also and have not found that exact word. I really appreciate reading your reaction to the word because it makes me realize what an emotionally-charged word it is.
I hadn't consciously noticed before that Piper uses that wordónor had I been aware that reformed theologians generally don't. Interesting.
I just know that inside my own head, the word "works" for me. But it's not a "necessary" word by any means!
Tisha, I know the word in the following verse is "heart", but I believe it addresses your experience: "Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence wheneverour hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he iknows everything" (1 John 3:18-20).
Colleen |
Windmotion
Registered user
Username: Windmotion
Post Number: 251
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 8:27 pm: | |
Maybe the word "surrender" is not in the Bible, but the words "servant" and "slave" are.
Romans 6:19 "I speak this way, using the illustration of slaves and masters, because it is easy to understand. Before, you let yourselves be slaves of impurity and lawlessness. Now you must choose to be slaves of righteousness so that you will become holy."
I think the general concept is the same, even to the Sparticus-like rebellions we occasionally engage in.
Synonymously,
Hannayh |
Dinolf
Registered user
Username: Dinolf
Post Number: 27
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 6:21 am: | |
I think "surrender", "give it all to Jesus" or other churchly language is just a expression of what Hannayh points to. Decipleship is about serving the Kingdom. Matt 25 is about how we can serve the Kingdom. As I stated before the story of the virgins must be seen in the whole context, and expecially the latter part v 31-46. Read it and give your feedback. There is a clear definition of who is qualified for eternal life. By faith of course - I'm not talking about a perfect decipleship - but a beginners walk together with the mighty One.
/Dinolf |
Mrsbrian3
Registered user
Username: Mrsbrian3
Post Number: 32
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 9:19 am: | |
Belva,
I don't know how much I believe of this interpretation of the parable. What I do find amazing is that, like you, I even entertain the possibility of agreeing with any of it! As an SDA I would have dismissed the whole thing without a second glance. Now at least I can appreciate a different interpretation rather than feel superior to the poor soul who was SO confused. It's things like this that make me realize how self-righteous I really was as an SDA. That's just one more thing that removing the veil exposes ... just how sinful I am!
Kim |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 857
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 10:59 am: | |
Dear Kim,
Exactly! I've looked at the rapture texts enough to know that we cannot be sure there will be a rapture, or sure that there won't. There are enough hints at it, like in this very parable, but I also know that I don't have to believe in the rapture to be saved and taken off this earth in that manner if Jesus chooses to spirit his bride away like that. I'm so glad that I've learned to trust in Jesus to take care of all those details. I do know that being a born-again Christian means that I won't have to suffer the punishment of the Great Tribulation. How I will be protected from that is up to Jesus.
Belva |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3164
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 12:54 pm: | |
Belva, so well stated. Thank you!
Colleen |
Brian4
Registered user
Username: Brian4
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 9:30 pm: | |
Colleen and Stan thank you for welcoming me to the forum. I was thinking the closest word that comes to mind related to "surrender" is repent. Acts 3:19 ìRepent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.î To repent is to surrender to the Holy Spiritís leading. And to ìsurrenderî suggests we are defeated. On the contrary we are made strong in our weakness and to repent is to surrender to the leading of the Holy Spirit. I can remember an old friend who once told me that in order to win in this battle you must first surrender. I had tried for years to overcome in my own strength and I finally gave up and allowed God to change my heart. On that day I surrendered to the pleading of the Holy Spirit and Repented and asked Jesus Christ to forgive me and save me from my sins. I was converted and I can say there are times of doubt Tisha, however there is no doubt that it is the accuser of the breathern that tries to get us to doubt God. So hang on to Jesus Tisha and know that He will never leave you or forsake you.
Belva, the 10 Virgins, the five who were wise got wisdom from God. He who lacks wisdom let him ask God who gives it liberally. I think the (Oil) fullness of the Holy Spirit is sufficient, in that we put our full trust in the Word of God (Lamp). We know by the Spirit of God that our conversion is true because the Spirit of God dwells in us. Christ in you the hope of Glory. I think the five foolish virgins failed to be converted (Born Again) possibly due to a lack of true repentance. Christian, in name only having a form of Godliness but denying the power, Holy Spirit power (Oil) you canít buy it!
|
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 859
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 10:46 pm: | |
I want to thank all of you for your input on this subject. I have carried around the SDA interpretation of this parable for over 50 years, and once something is that deeply ingrained you need a lot of information, or at least interruption, to change how that plays through your mind. Every time I've read this parable I immediately played that ingrained tape. Your responses have helped to eliminate that replay and I will be eternally grateful. |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 1149
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 9:42 am: | |
Brian4, I like your take on the word "surrender". In the way SDAs used it, and even some others today use the word, it connotates a works process, because surrender has the sound of a work. But it doesn't have to be that way, and I think the concept of surrender is there. I just like the Biblical terminology of repent and follow Christ, and become His disciple.
Stan |
Javagirl
Registered user
Username: Javagirl
Post Number: 130
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 7:00 pm: | |
"Surrender" may not be in the bible, but the idea of dying unto Christ is... Crucified with Christ, dying to the old sinful nature, etc, etc. Guess Ill have to do a search on that.
This concept has actually helped me. I recently read a novel where the lead character, a Christian, continued to remind himself that he was a "dead man". For example when he started worrying, he would remember that "Dead man canít worry". or "dead men donít worry about what other people think." His old sinful nature was "dead". It was Christ living in him that allowed him to act Christ like.
I really liked following that train of thought, and it has made a big impact on me. I have used that thought to derail certain feelings or thoughts that are "old nature" thinking.
I'll remember that I am "dead". It makes me smile, as it is so dramatic. I am now "alive" as Christ lives is me. Not sure of the theology, but it works for me in combating a number of issues.
I wonder if the idea of Death, dying to self, is more or less appealing to men?? There are also the concepts of entering into ìcovenant with Godî, or ìAgreement with Gods willî, or the one I like best, ìcommittingî to God a certain area of my life. Of course, the idea of commitment may scare of some  . Commitment to me means taking the yoke of Christ, partnering with Him, and allowing Him to take the heaviness of the load.
|
|
