| Author | Message | ||
| Randyg Registered user Username: Randyg Post Number: 94 Registered: 12-2004 |
I had a great time. I attended my small former SDA church for their Christmas program as my daughter was playing her flute, and these are my friends and family, there were hugs all around. My wife and children and my mother and her pal came with me to the large production at my adopted church, Trinity Baptist, a service with all sorts of choirs, orchestra, dance, prayer, and a great talk by Pastor Tim. This is an annual outreach that attracts 10,000 people over 5 sevices. I went twice. I can only call the presentation Unfettered Joy. We didn't get into to much theological discourse do to time constraints. My Brothers main concern is what about the Sabbath. I was able to sent some commentaries home with him on Romans 14 and Colossian 2:16-23, and that wonderful article The Christian and the Ten Commandments by John Root at www,layhands/TenCommandments,htm. And Ratzlaff's Sabbath in Jesus. This will give he some challenging reading for the next while. The ominous file cabinet was glanced at but those that were willing to pursue study only wanted to deal with one thing at a time. And rightfully so. My mother was appreciative of the Nelson Study Bible She received. We can now be on the same page when studying passages. It also has helpful commentary through out, and is one of the Bibles I use. We didn't discuss the IJ doctrine because I don't think they understand the inplications of it, or again the inplications of it being wrong. Me, I got the Complete Farside 2-Volume hardbound edition by Gary Larson. There are days when I need to lighted up and this will be my tonic. Interested on how your witness went, Randy | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 611 Registered: 7-2004 |
Randy, Thanks for the Christmas story. You are an excellent teller. What a wonderful Christmas it was for you to share. I am praising God for their willingness to want to discuss and share and even go to your adopted church with you. God is making Himself known to them through you. What a marvelous experience indeed. As far our witness...it was done quietly once again. I have to be without disappointment because God knows the time and the methods of revealing Himself. Our families don't want to discuss Jesus even at the celebration of His birth with us. It is too uncomfortable for them to see that a love for Jesus has nothing to do with what church we are attending. We just continue to surrender to Him everyday and pray He will use our faith to draw those we love closer to Himself. Denise | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3147 Registered: 12-2003  |
Denise, our family "witness" was more like yours. Our local Adventist family came for Christmas brunch (not without some grumbling first that they would have to arise early just for the purpose of eating breakfast a minimum of four hours before the 11:00 brunch...and the most volatile member somehow got a stomach bug and couldn't come), but the time together was quiet, and nothing controversial arose (unlike sometimes in the past). We also had some former SDA and former Jehovah's Witness friends over, and we had a good time. None of the family was willing to go to church with us, but that's OK. We actually had a more comfortable Christmas with them than in previous years. No, Jesus is quit the uncomfortable topic, but like you, we just keep praying that they will come to know Him. Colleen | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 129 Registered: 3-2005 |
It's very sad, but after dragging 5 of us through the air port to be with family on what I consider to be one of the most sacred of holidays, there was no Christmas story, any time there was an attempt at going deeper then "don't forget to save the bows" I'd hit a brick wall. It's like, to my m-i-l, we are not persons any more. Not only could we not talk about the Lord or prayer or the Holy Spirit, we couldn't talk about business, the kids interests, ANYTHING. We are not only battling the church issue but the fact that the Lord has blessed us with work and a nice place to live which isn't how they are living, so there seems to be a huge amount of jealousy even though the way they live is their choice. But leaving the church was the last proof they needed that we were corrupted by what they consider wealth. It's really quite funny, because our neighbors think of us as backwoods country bumpkins because this year is the first year we've ever had a decent car, but our family thinks of us as rich snobs because we have a job and live in a neighborhood rather than 40 miles out of town on a farm. Can't win. But in Christ we are JUST RIGHT to him. Now here's a thought, why would the blessing of landing a large sum of money, say by chance be considered more of a blessing than the blessing of God to be ambitious? Why are people automatically suspicious of others if they work hard and are rewarded for that, and yet celebrate when someone wins a freak trip to Hawaii? And why are Adventists suspicious of those who study their way out of the church but feel better when one leaves because of being treated badly. Seems related to meÖ very related. Kind of like itís ok to be single and meet someone by chance then it is to join a dating service and make an effort to meet the right someone through effort. Itís ok to be a weak and get what life gives you, but itís not ok to be strong and make decisions that guides ones life. A very upside down world. Iíd love feedback. Lisa | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 260 Registered: 5-2004 |
Our Christmas had a Relative-generated-damper of sorts. It needs some prayer support, I'll try to keep the story as short as possible. My mother was a fundamental Christian all her life until about 7 years ago. She had a mid-life crisis of sorts, divorced my dad, ended up marrying an alcoholic, and has taken up smoking a pipe and drinking dark beer. That isn't the problem as much as it is her refusal to abide by my rules in my house. She continues to drink at my house despite my asking her not to. She feels fine bringing her intoxicated husband over. She also feels fine badmouthing the decisions my husband and I make for our family: schooling for the kids, the decision to adopt from China, how we use our money, the fact that we are Christian etc... 3 months ago I confronted her. I told her she needed to respect our family by agreeing not to smoke or drink, or show up intoxicated at my house. I also told her i didn't appreciate her being crual about my family when she talked to our extended relatives. That was just before Thanksgiving. Since then we have been to China and back, adopted a little girl, and of course, celebrated Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years. And we haven't heard from her. I really don't feel angry anymore, but I do feel sad for her, I just know that she must be feeling empty and alone, having alienated almost all her relatives and friends. Please join me in prayer for her. Her grandkids do miss her. -tanya- | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3170 Registered: 12-2003 |
Tanya, I understand your sadness; you were right, however, to draw the line in the sand and not allow her to bring her drinking and cruelty into your home. Lisa, you make some very good observations. Yes, I've observed a lot of jealousy in Adventism (actually, it's a very typical, universal human problem) over relative earning power, houses and lands, brands of cars, etc. I know one family who viscerally believed it was a sin of sorts to have money; consequently, if they ever had any in the bank, they managed to find ways to spend it. They felt they were not deserving of what they would call "fine houses" or comfortable surroundingsónever mind that they had the ability to make a comfortable living and actually, as they went through middle age, became quite comfortable financially. Another family I know had quite a lot of money but considered it somehow "spiritual" to appear "poor". Although they owned three or four different houses in different cities, they deliberately dressed border-line "poorly" and allowed people to consider them "needy" and "worthy"óeven accepting gifts of food, garden produce, household repairs from SDA community help groupsóetc. They were remarkably stingy with each other as well. I believe Adventism really does breed a world view colored by finances ahd social status. Colleen | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 131 Registered: 3-2005 |
Tanya, To be strong and not allow someone to ruin your precious little family is a gift from God. How painful that the ìsomeoneî is your mom. I pray that God will be your "always there" Dad, and that He will bolster you up when you are feeling guilty for confronting her with truth. Just keep in mind that there have been those families who have taken the easy way and that one out of control person has ruined whole families because no boundary was ever made. God Bless you as you hold the line for the sake of those who depend on you to protect them. Colleen, I really believe the dysfunction that goes with believing one thing and belonging to a church that believes another (as the vast majority of my SDA friends and family happen to do) creates a kind of disconnect that effects all areas of thought and functioning. I know SDA's are not the only ones who function in these twisted ways, it's just interesting as an adult to see for the first time, all kinds of confusing messages that werenít clear before God rescued us from Adventism. Another example of the same ideas I expressed earlier is the way in which thin people are judged. I have struggled with my body my whole life, and I believe the main reason I've, in the past, returned to destructive habits that cause weight gain have been for reasons similar to those listed above. There are those that shame a thin and athletic person if he/she has worked on it, and chalk that person up as a snob, and consider them competition, even if married and very reserved with people in general,... however if naturally thin, the same rules do not seem to apply. It's that unspoken rule that if one works to make a better life for themselves, that they are somehow infringing on another's comfort zone. Very strange people behavior  If we're going for survival of the fittest, HEAVY would be the trend, as would staying in a church that makes no Biblical sense, as would forever struggling financially, as would staying a hermit on purpose.... I love the gospel that says that I am a new person in Christ and that he is my measure of goodness, and that He was forever trusting His Father with the strength to be bold and purposeful in His life, no matter what others thought. Wow, to be BOLD AND PURPOSFUL NO MATTER WHAT OTHERS THINK... THAT WOULD BE A NEW CREATURE BEHAVIOR FOR ME. God Bless You, New CreatureJ Lisa | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2170 Registered: 3-2004  |
Tanya, I have you and your family, mother included. on my prayer list. I am so glad to see you have "drawn the line in the sand". It is hard to do, especially for your mother. Lisa, I can understand about the thin/not so thin thinking, as I am one of those "not so thin" and have fought it all my life. About Family,I am sure my family's upbring in adventism has colored their attitudes. I had to tell a sister, who can get very nasty and hateful, that if she sent any more nasty grams to me that I would block her from my e-mail. She did not like that and told me she never blocks anyone's e-mail. I told her I do that as part of setting boundaries for myself. I saw this sister on Christmas day at our younger sister's house. She made a couple of statements that I needed to answer, to let her know I did not agree with her. People have a habit of letting this sister say what she wants and not telling her when she hurts/offends them. I do not do that. Other than that, my Holidays were nice. I was sick most of the time. But God kept me company and that is all I really need. I continue to learn about God and realize every day how awesome He is. Diana | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 261 Registered: 5-2004 |
The flip side... we took my mother in law, who is an SDA school teacher, with us to China on our adoption trip. (Because my husband was SDA when I met him, and I "corrupted" him, there has been some degree of awkwardness from the beginning between me and my inlaws.) But my mother in law really is a go-with-the-flow, helpful person. She was great to have on the trip, and she took TONS of pictures for us. We got back about 3 days before Christmas, and my father-in-law joined us for Christmas. And happy to report, there no longer seems to be SDA vs ex-SDA vs non-SDA weirdness. They really do seem to believe that Adventism isn't the only way, and participate in spiritual conversations without being heavy-handed or accusatory. Believe me, I am attuned to SDA hintism and prejudice, and I just don't feel it crom them anymore. They don't apologize for or hide their beliefs either. The communication lines are open, and we are able to share with them what we believe and why. So that is a praise. -tanya- | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2175 Registered: 3-2004 |
Tanys, It sounds like your father and mother in law are softening. Thank you God for this. That must be so nice that you can talk as Christians instead of SDA vs ex SDA. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3180 Registered: 12-2003 |
You're right, Tanya--that is a praise! Colleen | ||
| Dt Registered user Username: Dt Post Number: 74 Registered: 4-2005 |
Lisa_boyldavis I agree wholeheartedly. There is such a huge disconnect between the SDA emphasis on education and the belief in poverty being a virtue. Contrast this with the continual requests for tithe and offerings and the near-worship of wealthy members (especially if they are in the medical field) and it is enough to make your head spin. I had a funny experience with SDA relatives during the holidays. We were discussing wine and alcohol and I mentioned Deut. 14:26. She responded "You can make the Bible say anything you like". Huh? Aren't these the words of God Himself? I grabbed the Bible, but she wouldn't even read it for herself. If you want to read an unbelievable take on this text, take a look at what the SDA Bible Commentary says. It is truly unbelievable. | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 138 Registered: 3-2005 |
Diane, I felt for you when you wrote about your sister. I think some people have a continual foot in mouth reacting to their own emotional sense of inadequacy. Those are the hardest people for me to be with, and the hardest for me to pray for, but I think they need prayer AND BOUNDRIES more than anyone else. I'm also sorry you were sick. Tanya, What a blessing to have a great healthy connection with family, SDA or not!! And how wonderful to take a trip to China. Dt, I'll have to look up the commentary interpret. for that text. No one could figure out Jesus as the Jews also had to scramble to understand him. He's still baffling to most. Lisa | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2179 Registered: 3-2004 |
Lisa, My sister is a very sad, unhappy person. She is one of 4 sisters and my others sisters are not like her. Her first husband left her. I do not know the reasons as she will not discuss it. Her current husband asked her for a divorce about 13 years ago. He was a DA at the time. Now he is a judge and he likes the facade of a happy family and she likes being the judge's wife. The live in the same house, but that is all to their relationship. So, I can see why she thinks she has to control everything and everyone that she can. I do set firm limits with her. I do pray for her every day as only God can turn her around, if she will let Him. And you are correct. It is hard to be around her. She does not live in Nevada, so I do not see her very often. Diana | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 193 Registered: 10-2005 |
Lisa, I believe the reason adventists are comfortable with members who leave the church because of mistreatment is because they don't see them as traitors. Many who leave the church from mistreatment, such as myself, remain loyal in some ways to many Adventists and the doctrine of the church. The cultic click still remains. Many adventists believe that the unchurched will be in heaven, but not Christians of other denominations (or the Christians of other denominations that know they should be worshipping on the Sabbath!). It is very unbiblical and members don't know that. They are just brainwashed. Seventh-day Adventists don't realize they are lost like those who don't go to church. The truth is, Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3187 Registered: 12-2003 |
Exactly, Lynne. You can go into the world, but you haven't betrayed Adventism by doing that. After all (as we all know so well!) you can behave as if you no longer believe, but the Adventist programming continues to color your mind. It is the "truth"óand if the truth doesn't work for you, there's certainly no point in embracing "false religion"! It's the SDA "truth" or nothing at all. It's very sad, really--so many people equate Advemtism with Jesus and God's will. Colleen | ||
| Lisa_boyldavis Registered user Username: Lisa_boyldavis Post Number: 140 Registered: 3-2005 |
Yep, and that's why I feel SO FREE... BECAUSE I DON'T LAY AWAKE AT NIGHT WONDERING ABOUT THE SHAKING. I LAY IN MY BED WITH PEACE THAT PASSES ALL UNDERSTANDING AND I THANK JESUS FOR MY SALVATION FROM THAT NIGHTMARE. LISA | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 262 Registered: 5-2004 |
I know so many cultural SDAs, who don't really buy the hype anymore, are frustrated with their experience with the SDA church. So they don't go to church at all. They don't seek God outside SDAism because they were told any other version of God is false. So they flounder, and resist any other Christian influence. It is so truly sad! tanya- | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2187 Registered: 3-2004 |
I used to "flounder" when I quit going to church on a regular basis. I remember my son and I talking about what he had learned from a former SDA pastor and we both agreed we did not feel comfortable going to church on Sunday. As I learned how much God loves me in my 12 step program, I was confused, because that was not what I learned in SDA school. But I saw the proof of how much God loves me and others when I saw the changes of people in my 12 step program. I could not deny that. So even though I only attended the SDA church occasionally, I told God I felt so much better being the person that I had learned I was in my 12 step program, that being the person I was when I was an active, tithe paying, SS attending SDA church member. Through my 12 step program, God gently brought down my defenses and I AM SO THANKFUL. HE IS SO AWESOME. Diana | ||
| Tealeaves Registered user Username: Tealeaves Post Number: 263 Registered: 5-2004 |
I am praying right now for one of my SDA freinds in particular. She was my best friend in nursing school. Her parents were SDA teachers who were terminated suddenly when her mom found out she had Fibromyalgia. So now, not only is she sick, but has no job or retirement. It left them in a lurch. They didn't protest much, just went looking for other jobs, which they have found on and off. Meanwhile, they found a church that meets Saturdays, and is run by an ex-SDA pastor. (He was tossed from the SDA system for publicly saying that not all tithe had to go to the church, if GOd led, you could send that money in other directions, and he did so himself.) My friend started attending there along with her parents. And the pastor taught the Gospel, but the group was largely made up of disgruntled SDAs. And just latley, my friends started back at a SDA church closer to her house. She knows I am not SDA, and we have had a few talks about that, but not many. Just like with many of the SDAs I have met, if you arent SDA, your opinions and beliefs don't hold much weight with them. She really doesn't seem spiritualy fulfilled. I just wish there was a way to share with her more effectively. I pray for them, and I talk to her about what God is doing in my life. It is just a little sad and frustrating to see. -tanya- | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3203 Registered: 12-2003 |
Tanya, you can be sure that God is using you to glorify Himself in your friend's life. He is faithful. With prayers for you, Colleen |
