| Author | Message | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2005 |
ok maybe I'll get this posting down yet I've had a few problems  As I said before I was looking in the fundamental beliefs and in the Sabbath chapter I find where it says that the Sabbath is a seal of God.... But I dont find anywhere in the chapter where we are sealed by the Sabbath.I see a difference. I then went to the Holy Spirit chapter and it makes no reference that we sealed by the Holy Spirit. Too bad about that. Im just trying to be fair and balanced here,Im I missing something? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3124 Registered: 12-2003  |
No, Wolfgang, you're not missing anything. Official Adventist doctrine is that the Sabbath is the seal of God. (Some Adventists now say, contrary to official doctrine, that it is the "sign of the seal" because SDA theologians KNOW that the Bible teaches the Holy Spirit is God's seal.) Similarly, Adventists don't teach Biblical truth about the Holy Spirit. They do not teach that the Holy Spirit brings our spirits to life when we accept Jesus, because they do not believe humans have spirits other than the breath they breathe. Because they do not teach Biblical truth about the new birth, they are also confused about Pentecost. They say that Pentecost was the "early rain" prophesied in Joel, and they say the "latter rain" is still to come, and we must pray for its outpouring. On the contrary, Peter said in Acts 2 that the phenomenon of Pentecost was the fulfillment of the prophecy in Joel 2 that the young men would dream, old men would have visions, and the spirit of the Lord would be upon His people. In context, the "latter rain" in the book of Joel WAS Pentecost. Adventists make it something still in the future. Have you ever noticed that Adventists don't make much of Pentecost? They do not emphasize that Pentecost was the actual birth of the true church, the body of Christ. Instead, they treat it as a landmark foreshadowing something greater in the future. If Adventists really took Pentecost seriously, there would be no place for a "remnant church" to rise up in the 1840's. Interestingly, the Jewish Feast of Pentecost (when the actual Day of Pentecost happened) had ALWAYS been held on the first day of the week a certain number of days after Passover. The formula for figuring Pentecost is in Leviticus, I believe. It was ALWAYS celebrated on the first day of the week. No, Adventism does not teach Biblical truth about the Sabbath or about the Holy Spirit. They have mis-identified the seal of God, an error which sets them up to mis-identify the mark of the beast as well. If the seal of God is the Holy Spirit, the sign of those who do not have the seal of God can't be a mere day of worship. The opposite of not being born of the Spirit is being spiritually dead and aligned with evil. Days of the week have nothing to do with God's protective seal or with the lack of it. Colleen | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 162 Registered: 10-2005 |
The bible says: Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. According to the bible, the Seal of God is the Holy Spirit, not the Sabbath. I'm sticking with the bible and no longer reading the bible according to Ellen White. Ellen White says the Seal of God is the Sabbath. If you go to www.whiteestate.org and search the database, that is what you will find. You will not find anywhere in the bible where it says the Seal of God is the Sabbath. Again, the bible doesn't say that, Ellen White does and the Adventist Church teaches that according to Ellen White. I am not confused when I read the bible directly. Unbiblical teachings/prophecy coming from Ellen White is clearly unbiblical: Revelation:18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. If you pray sincerely about it, you will have an answer. Remember that God doesn't confuse us. He loves us and hears our prayers. | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2005 |
another question if one is sealed can that seal be broken?in other words if one is sealed with the Holy Spirit by God,and falls away does God break that seal? and when do we get sealed?also even before I dedicated my lfe to the Lord I believe the Holy Spirit was prompting me,so was I sealed then? | ||
| Wolfgang Registered user Username: Wolfgang Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2005 |
another question if one is sealed can that seal be broken?in other words if one is sealed with the Holy Spirit by God,and falls away does God break that seal? and when do we get sealed?also even before I dedicated my lfe to the Lord I believe the Holy Spirit was prompting me,so was I sealed then? | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2005 |
Colleen, You make some very good points. The thought just hit me -- how twisted the logic has to get to come up with the "sign of the seal". This past week I had a paper notarized so my daughter could go on a mission trip to the Phillipines. It was a seal. Could anyone tell me what a "sign of a Notary Seal" would be? Perhaps where it had been, but was no longer? Gilbert | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3127 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ha! Good example, Gilbert! Wolfgang, Ephesians 1:12-14 clearly says, "And you also were included in Him when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of God's possessions, to the praise of His glory." The "sealing" happens when we surrender to Jesus. That's what happened at Pentecost, and that's what Ephesians says happens to each person who accepts Jesus. Colleen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2005 |
Lynne, Amen!!! So well stated. God's plan of redemption is so simple compared to Ellen White's. I am so thankful that God loves me so much he led me out of all this confusion. To deny the Holy Spirit's rightful role in the Sealing process is frightening. How can the Holy Spirit work on a person's heart, when that person denies their role, and replaces it with something God created -- a day of the week. I have found that Adventists are "all over the board" because Ellen White, their interpreter, was "all over the board". Since she copied what she says she was "shown" from so many other contemporary sources, it is not surprising. It makes Joseph Smith and Mary Baker Eddy pale in comparison. The one thing that it is easy to pin them down on (and they have to agree that this is more important than anything else), is that no where in the Bible does it say that the Seal of God is a day of the week. To the contrary it clearly states that the Seal of God is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. All they have to do is to study all the verses in the New Testament that refer to the Holy Spirit. Colleen stated it so well. To deny the Holy Spirit His rightful chair, is the unpardonable sin. Adventists will try to throw out lots of Bible texts -- usually in "proof text" format, such as I was taught as a youth by the "Bible Speaks" seminars. The devil was good at that too. "Chained together" in a supporting sequence, they can appear to support almost any position. Adventists need to continuously be brought back to this one, most important point about the central role of the Holy Spirit as the active player in the Seal of God, which they can not deny that Ellen White and the Holy Scriptures are in such stark disagreement on. When the Word of God is "rightly divided" on this one subject, most of the rest of their false doctrine is left standing naked -- exposed without Biblical support, as Colleen so aptly pointed out above. They end up mis-identifying so many things that one has to wonder how they can successfully masquerade as part of the Body of Christ -- especially while claiming that they are the exclusive "remnant" -- the "Noah's ark" that all true believers must ultimately seek safety in! The term Apostate Protestantism, as they apply it, is very bold indeed. This is a very good thread. Thank you, Wolfgang. Gilbert Gilbert | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 538 Registered: 4-2000  |
As I was reading this thread, a Christian CD (playing in the background) blessed my soul with one of my favorite hymns, "Without Him." The recurring refrain says it all, "For without Him, how lost I would be!" As another song (now playing) aptly declares, "His grace still amazes me." Indeed, music is a wonderful language. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 164 Registered: 10-2005 |
Gilbert - This is how the SDA church/devil does it. Adventists don't have "The Armor of God" as stated in Ephesians. Adventists are told they are not saved, so without that armor, the devil aims for the head. Adventists are taught soul sleep, that is the natural state of man. It is easy to remove the rest of the armor without salvation. We then don't have the spirit, another important armor. I just want to be certain now to have the full armor. I'm still working on the belt of truth. I've quoted Ephesians 6 before, but I truely believe this is such an important detail that we just didn't have as adventists. As an adventist, my spiritual growth was stagnated and finally abolished. It is my hope now to remain a branch on the vine as Jesus says: Johna5:3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. Romans - 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. The Armor of God Ephesians 6:10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. Lynne | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 19 Registered: 7-2005 |
"in other words if one is sealed with the Holy Spirit by God, and falls away does God break that seal?" Wolfgang, I'm sure you can find mountains of information about whether our salvation is secure. But I prefer to stay focused on the promises in God's Word... Phl 1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ..." 2Ti 1:12 "...for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." It's the Holy Spirit who does the sealing. It is also the Holy Spirit who does the keeping. Honest Witness | ||
| Prinsen Registered user Username: Prinsen Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2005 |
It is evident that EGW can avoid the biblical Seal of God in most of her writings but what does she do about it in the SDA bible commentary? Since I don't have access to it I am asking if anybody here has and can tell us? What are her commentary on for example: 2 Cor. 1:21-22, Eph. 1:13-14 or Eph. 4:30? I'm just curious.... /Martin | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3135 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ellen White did not write the SDA Bible Commentary. It was written in the mid-20th century. Raymond Cottrell, an SDA scholar mentioned on another thread, was one of the contributing editors. Those who wrote/compiled the commentary used EGW as well as the meanings of the underlying Greek and Hebrew words. The SDA Commentary certainly promotes traditional SDA theology. Colleen | ||
| Prinsen Registered user Username: Prinsen Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2005 |
Thanks Colleen, I didn't know to what extent EGW contributed to the bible commentary. I would guess then that she was not quated on the texts I mentioned and that the real substance of them was avoided? That seems to be the Adventist way ofthen, to avoid the obvious because it doesn't fit your theology and hope that no-one notice? Maybe I'm beeing sarcastic but this is my experience, when I've brought someting up they can't answer they "put their head in the sand" hoping it will go away. /Martin | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 34 Registered: 2-2005 |
Without creating a new post, I would ask for some fortification over on the Christianity.com web site. Sabbath has reared its head again. You all write so well and explain issues better than I do. It would be very helpful to have you pop in. Go to Christian Doctrine and then Sabbath. Thanks, boB | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 131 Registered: 12-2004 |
Prinsen, I am smiling as I reflect on your question. Asking that question in a group of Christians is the same as asking adventist if the 144,000 is a real or figurative number. I honestly believe that adventist training has caused us to look away from the assurance that Jesus gives us about our position in Christ. I was at a Bible study several months ago and the pastor asked if I had ever seen the "7 Nevers". I admitted that I wasn't sure what he was talking about. He directed me to the following 7 passages in John. John 4:14 "Whoever drinks will never thirst" John 6:35 "He who comes to me will never go hungry" John 11:25,26 "He who believe in me will live, even though he dies and whoever believe in me will never die." John 8:51 "if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death" John 10:27,28 "I give them eternal life and they shall never perish" John 6:37 "whoever comes to me I will never drive away" John 5:24 "whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned" These verses, to me, speak powerfully about my position in Christ. | ||
| Leigh Registered user Username: Leigh Post Number: 57 Registered: 2-2003 |
Goldenbear, Thanks for the list of the 7 Nevers. I hadn't hear of it before either. I guess "the 7 nevers" are some of the reasons why I have always found reading the Gospel of John to be so comforting. I printed the list out. Leigh | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3141 Registered: 12-2003 |
Goldenbear, I hadn't heard of the "7 Nevers" either. Thank you for sharing them. They're wonderful! Colleen | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 399 Registered: 7-2004  |
Bob, I can see how you are feeling worn down on that thread that goes on (and in circles) forever. Don't be discouraged, your explanations are solid and clear. | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 35 Registered: 2-2005 |
Thanks Ric, I was getting the feeling that everyone was just overlooking my post. I think of all the lurkers on that web site and I feel that I need to post the truth. Others are helping. You all have so much insight and could be a blessing if you have the time. Your insight on CARM is outstanding Ric. I love to read your posts. Keep up the good work. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 403 Registered: 7-2004 |
Thanks Bob. As you are aware from your own posting, it is work. Plenty of work. If I hadn't seen that others had already hopped in, I probably would have put in my $.02 worth. Email me if you need an extra voice on a thread at some point. Or if you could just use some prayer and encouragement. |
