| Author | Message | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 145 Registered: 10-2005 |
I saw this today on the net. However, I couldn't help but wonder what others thought of this or if anyone saw it. I did a search in this forum and found some chilling stuff about the Davidians, but I didn't see this. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/readings/waco.html I must say, the reality of some inappropriate things that happened and inappropriate things that were said (by many people in the church, but especially pastors) while I was attending the adventist churches have been coming to my mind lately and disturbing me very much. A lot of things that I just could not connect or see before regarding deception and silence of abuse in the churches I attended. It just keeps unfolding in my mind and it really blows me away that I was so far out there in Adventistland in my mind that I couldn't see it! Something didn't seem right, but I didn't see it. I praise the Lord for getting me out of it and for saving me. How did He do it? Only He knows, and only He could do it. If left to myself, I would still be there, but God in His mercy found me. I just want to Praise Him for this miracle. I'm also grateful for the internet, the FAF forum and FAFs here in the forum and on the internet, for Christian music, the bible, and prayers. Gotta keep reading, praying, listening and believing! | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 369 Registered: 8-2004  |
What a thoughtful article! When I was a teenager in the SDA Reform Movement, we had 'Branch Davidians' (David Koresh's branch of the 'Shepherd's Rod' people) come thru from time to time - and some who attended regularly. They were very vocal that 'the angel of Ezekiel' was going to very soon finish his work and that then slaying would begin with Adventism. I remember several of us 'young people' pondering whether it was still safe to come to church. We knew that these people were stockpiling weapons 'for the time of trouble' and that some of them fully expected to use them 'starting at the house of God' (SDA churches)when the word went out that the time had come. There were a few Branch Davidians who spiritualized the weapons, but that did not comfort us! I found it interesting that David Koresh thought himself 'The Seventh Angel' with the SDA church the third. The Reform Movement considers ITSELF the fourth angel (also called 'the angel of Revelation 18'), with the SDA church the third! | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 525 Registered: 4-2000  |
Lynne, Thanks for sharing the PBS link. It is an accurate account. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3092 Registered: 12-2003  |
Lynne, thank you for sharing this link. It is very good. Richard worked over ten years ago with a conservative Adventist who had, I suspect, some sympathies with the reactionary right similar to the Davidians' views. He came to work one day and asked, "If God asked you to kill for His sake, would you do it?" He then went on to say that he knew that God might well expect him to kill for His sake, and he had decided that if God asked him to kill others--including Adventists who didn't agree with "truth", he would do it. This man has spent his life working for the mainstream SDA church and still does work for them, as far as I know--although he's now old enough to be retired. Colleen | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 152 Registered: 10-2005 |
Helovesme2 - There is an SDA Reform Movement close to where I live. I thought the reason they split with the SDA church was because of not wanting to fight wars, keeping all of the commandments "thou shall not kill." Colleen - What you said is scary. But realistically, the devils doctrine won't bring out the best in people. The davidians are always threatening the SDA church. In so many ways the SDA church is so unsafe. I felt it while I was there. God was protecting me and hearing my prayers and I just didn't understand. I mostly wanted to see the good in people that I knew there, the good things the church does and the good things that were in the bible, like many other adventists. But it is a cult, it is sad. I'm glad you have said many times before that you pray for the protection of our minds and hearts. I need to hear that on some days. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 372 Registered: 8-2004 |
 Yes, they did split from the SDA church over Pacifism - their refusal to bear arms in war (and their refusal to work on Saturday). The Branch Davidians (Shepherd's Rod) people who visited us however had no such belief. You have my curiosity about which SDARM church is local to you (though I realize you may not want to post your whereabouts on this open forum)! I visited most of the SDARM churches the US and Canada of the group which has their GC offices in Roanoke, VA. The one my family attended when I was a teenager was in Millersville TN, just north of Nashville. I've only visited a few of the IMS SDARM churches with headquarters in Germany. I'm in Kentucky now. | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 153 Registered: 10-2005 |
It is in Phoenix, Arizona. It is a small, old house, it has been there for a while and looks a bit impoverished. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 373 Registered: 8-2004 |
O my! Yes, a small, run-down house is fairly common among SDARM churches. The church will buy an old house and renovate it (often nicely) into a meeting place. In what seems another lifetime (though it was only five or six years ago), my husband and I were asked consider moving to Phoenix as Bible Workers. As it happened we did not go and I don't recall actually seeing the church building there, though I have met a few of the members. | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 155 Registered: 10-2005 |
I knew somebody from the Adventist Church that I attended that told me she went there once and everybody seemed so cultish. It was funny, she was raised non-denominational and told me everything about the adventist church was cultish, but it wasn't a cult. She is still very active in church and is married to a life long adventist. The last time I saw her she looked very depressed. | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 529 Registered: 4-2000 |
A few hours ago, we received a free book in the mail entitled, "NATIONAL SUNDAY LAW: A Shocking Glimpse Behind the Scenes...Forces unite amid stupendous crisis" by A. Jan Marcussen. The only return address given was "Free Books" Lincoln, NE 68506. Apparently, our local SDA friends are not wanting us to be giftless this Christmas (smile). A momentary peek inside this book revealed the SDA gospel of fear. It is a good book to show our Evangelical friends how cultic Adventism really is. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 156 Registered: 10-2005 |
Dennis, I remember seeing the National Sunday book on the literature rack when I first became adventist and thought "no way". I always somehow retained that thought in my mind and continued to think perhaps the book will eventually go away. I thought maybe it would become a historical adventist book. Some people I knew would go and hang out with me at the mall and at times have Java on Saturday. Then I would get too righteous for them or they would get to righteous for me. But I always felt so good when I escaped the church on Saturdays. Everyone in the real world seemed so happy. The church was depressing to me. I never believed the title of the book, but I was often a sabbath puppet. I wanted to please God, so I thought I had to at least try to keep the sabbath even if I didn't always keep the sabbath. I figured God knew my heart and sometimes he would accept my intentions. I'm glad Jesus is now my Sabbath. I'm glad all these former adventists are around on the net to help me better understand God and scripture. Today I was just overwhelmed by the peace that I had. I never felt peace like this as an adventist. Lynne | ||
| Dinolf Registered user Username: Dinolf Post Number: 24 Registered: 8-2005 |
I had a quick view at the sevenselas site. It makes me very sad that anyone can interpret the Bible this way. So far from the context and the true love of Jesus... Does anyone know how wide this movement is spread in the US today? How many "members"? Does the SDA church take any action to work against this groups? /Dinolf | ||
| Derrell Registered user Username: Derrell Post Number: 139 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dennis, National Sunday Law is published by Amazing Truth Publications in Thompsonville, IL. They have sold over 23 million copies. Jan Marcussen used to work as an evangelist with Kenneth Cox. Cox was not radical enough for Jan and they parted ways. Jan took a church and pastored for a while and then was disfellowshipped for making public statements to the effect that The Adventist Church leadership consisted of a pack of Jesuit infiltrators. Now he puts out a set of videos called "Roman Catholic Attack", his Sunday Law book, a newsletter, and a few other odd and ends. For a while, his wife, Vennita, was heavily involved in the SDARM in Nashville. Now they travel and speak in churches. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 2135 Registered: 3-2004  |
Lynne, I truly understand the peace you have because I have had this peace inside me since I accepted Jesus almost two years ago. These past two years have been wonderful. Now I can really share Jesus and not be ashamed of it or feel fearful because He is so real. Thank you God, you are so awesome. Diana | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 158 Registered: 10-2005 |
Dinof, It is very sad. But look at how the Adventists attack the Catholics. Is that really fair to the Catholics? That isn't a message of peace and love. I don't think the SDA church/leadership would say anything about their knowledge of the Davidians to anyone. I believe it is more important to them how the world sees them as non cultish than the protection of their own members. In other words, if a davidian threat would compromise in any way how non-members view the adventist church, they would pick reputation over safety. Click on Fred Kinsey, the second person after the President at the NAD Adventist website: http://www.nadadventist.org/leaders - here is his job description - Ministry Description Communication concentrates on creating a positive reputation for the Adventist Church among non-members and creating a positive reputation for the North American Division among members. As I've heard on this board before - What about Jesus? There is a lot of bad stuff on the SDA church on the net. They don't want the core/truth that the church believes to be brought to light as there is enough truth out there on them, and they know it. The davidians are too closely linked in beliefs to them. In a previous thread, I read the adventist church is not a safe place. If we as former adventists, those of us who have been around the church for a while, really look closely into our own experience in the churches, we will see signs of it being unsafe, much more unsafe than non cult protestant churches. I couldn't find any statistics on the Davidians relating to current membership. It is probably unknown. That would be like trying to get statistics on terrorists. Satan hides and doesn't want the truth to be known. However, in the true love of Christ. Please have a Merry Christmas. Lynne | ||
| Dinolf Registered user Username: Dinolf Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2005 |
Thanks Lynne. Yes - have a blessed Merry Cristmas. Jesus is Lord /D | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1130 Registered: 3-2005 |
Lynne, When SDAs attack Catholics, they don't realize why Catholicism is a counterfeit form of Christianity in the same way Adventism is a counterfeit form of Christianity. Both SDA and RCC teach false gospels of salvation by works. The spirit of the anti-christ operates wherever man's efforts are added to what God has accomplished in Christ on our behalf. Unfortunately there is a climate among a lot of main stream evangelicals to accept Catholicism as another Christian religion. As John MacArthur points out in a recent lecture, this is a serious mistake, because the true Christian church from the time of Martin Luther and the other Reformers has always regarded Catholicism as representing anti-christ and the spirit of Satan. However Adventism doesn't see itself as very similar to the beast it is attacking, and the national Sunday law doctrine is just not Biblical, and is the wrong reason for attacking Catholicism. Stan | ||
| Lynne Registered user Username: Lynne Post Number: 160 Registered: 10-2005 |
Stan, I do understand what you are saying about Catholicism. I was baptized as a baby into the church yet protected from some the darker secrets of the religion in our families closet that eventually came out. I have an aunt who has been a nun for over 50 years now and I come from a family filled with very rigid catholics resulting in much of the younger generation turning away from the church. One of my relatives has become Lutheran. Most however are either Catholic or Ex-Catholic unchurched. There wasn't much warmth in our family. I never saw anything spiritual in the rituals when I went to church. I was put down by our most rigid relatives for not being catholic. I was just told I should be a Catholic and didn't know why. When I went to the adventist church, the anti-catholic message made sense to me having experienced many negatives under the catholic religion. But the works in adventism I think was consistent and familiar to me having grown up in very much a works oriented environment. My husband grew up Catholic and believes it is the largest cult. However, we both agree that at least the Catholic church doesn't try to hide who they are. And the same goes for Mormons and JWs (though JWs are deceptive). I personally believe the adventist church worse than all three because they approach the world saying they teach the same gospel as other protestants. They say no works, but it isn't true. I never knew the true gospel, not until now, at age 40. I am grateful it finally reached me and that there are former adventists on the internet teaching and sharing the gospel and exposing the truth about the adventist church. Lynne |
