| Author |
Message |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 1116
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 4:27 pm: |     |
Melissa, I don't think any of the posts questioning the cancelling of services was meant in anyway to be judgmental of individuals like you who go on Christmas eve. As we said, this is not a moral or ethical issue of right or wrong. Whether individuals choose to go Sat. night vs. Christmas day is not the issue. It is the perception created in the community when a big church like Willow Creek chooses to close their doors completely on not only the usual customary day that Christians worship, but on the day seekers should be at least theoretically more inclined to go to church, the day we celebrate Jesus' birthday, they close their doors. It seems like it is mostly the mega-churches rather than the smaller churches doing this and that is why so much controversy has developed over this issue. I agree Melissa that maybe more has been made of this than is warranted, but when Christmas is at its height of secularization, then the perception of what the large mega-churches are doing raises legitimate concerns, but should not be raised to make individuals feel guilty, but rather the corporate leadership of these huge mega-churches should be made to examine their example.
I thought that article with its comments was quite balanced, as there were churches who were not mega-churches, and who were New-Covenant based churches who decided Sunday is no more sacred than any other day of the week. So, there is room to agree to disagree, and by all means don't feel guilty if you choose to go at another time, or even not at all.
Stan |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 397
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 5:24 pm: | |
Melissa, we are planning on going to both Christmas Eve (late evening) and Christmas Day services. My kids are older now 11 and (as she reminds me every day) almost 13. Although we are visiting family (in KC BTW) and they have younger ones who will be attending both as well. Were the kids younger I might have considered an early service on Christmas Eve. But please don't consider my statements a judgment on what services people choose to attend and whether they choose one over another. If someone wants to choose any of the worship options for the weekend that is their perogative.
If members of the church changed their attendance times to make it easier to go to a ball game or a picnic or anything else, I wouldn't have a particular issue with it. If the church closed for the day because the Chiefs were playing a home game I would probably have something to say about it. But one is the action of individuals the other the action of a church body. Those are two different things.
Nor do I see an issue with scaling back services, particularly in a church with many younger families that are likely to travel over holidays. The relatively small church we attend has scaled back for every holiday weekend where people are likely to travel.
The very fact that this is has been so controversial for those churches that closed for the day should say something about the impact that this is having. The question I consider is "what good could come from this." |
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra
Post Number: 388
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 5:36 am: | |
I'm very thankful that our church will be having service on Sunday and we have 20 baptisms scheduled!
It IS Jesus' birth that we are celebrating, not time with our families at home.
In addition, my SDA mom and stepdad will be attending. It will be candlelight communion and some selections from the Messiah, so it will be very low key for our church, that is a good thing since they would be very uncomfortable if we were our normal charismatic selves and I'm sure they haven't seen 20 baptisms in one year, much less a day!
God is good, all the time. |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 815
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 10:04 am: | |
What a wonderful way to celebrate the birth of the Savior. Amen, God is Good! |
Sabra
Registered user
Username: Sabra
Post Number: 389
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 6:45 am: | |
We ended up wiht 29 baptisms and my mother didn't go. My step dad did.
My mother told me they would be here the 22-27th and when she got here informed me that she is staying until the 2nd. My stepdad went on to MI yesterday to see his kids.
She has been "sick" since she got here, laying around in a "coma" on my couch all day, I don't really think she is sick, forgive me Lord if I'm wrong, I think she is chronically depressed and I'm about to lose it.
This is hell for me. We have never gotten along, and I left for Pisgah at 15 and never went back, so I really barely know her, and she has always been depressed and we have nothing in common and this is so hard.
On Christmas, my stepdad prayed the blessing that we MIGHT all be saved and we MIGHT all be in heaven together and that it was our choice.
What a crazy prayer. I wanted to say, "Thank You Jesus that I know I'm saved and I WILL be with You forever.
Please pray for me, that my attitude will be better, that I will be more gracious and tolerant and loving.
Just a note of advice to everyone, if you are going to visit someone, do not stay more than 3 days, it is just too much.
Hope you all had a great Christmas and believing 2006 will be the best year ever!
Blessings and prayers,
Sabra |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 381
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 6:51 am: | |
Sabra wrote:
"On Christmas, my stepdad prayed the blessing that we MIGHT all be saved and we MIGHT all be in heaven together and that it was our choice. "
Sounds like they haven't chosen to accept Jesus yet!
It also sounds like the prayer that a relative of mine prayed right after finding out that two of my children had accepted Jesus the night before - you see, since they were only 4 and 6 they 'weren't old enough' to accept Jesus! And anyway, since I was not SDA they really must have accepted something ELSE besides Jesus and be headed to hell.
Praying that God will be your sufficiency and joy during this difficult time!
Blessings,
Mary |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 1131
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 12:00 pm: | |
Jesus clearly states in Matt 11:27 and John 15:16 that He chose us and we didn't choose Him, but after we are born from above, then that is when we can accept Him, and exercise faith and repentance, and have the full assurance of faith. The proof that Jesus' words in the above texts are absolutely true would be Mary's experience above where a 4 and 6 year old accepted Jesus, because they could not have done it on their own free will, and this was illustrated also when John the Baptist was already born again when he was in Elizabeth's womb. Yes, God is absolutely sovereign in salvation, and when we are born from above, there is never any question about MIGHT being saved, or MIGHT being in heaven, because Jesus says in John 6 that none can come to Him unless the Father draws him, and NONE that the Father gives Jesus will ever be lost. These are iron-clad promises. Praise God, that we no longer have to worry about passing the Investigative Judgment.
Stan |
Carol_2
Registered user
Username: Carol_2
Post Number: 384
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 3:34 pm: | |
I'm so sorry Sabra. You are in my prayers. I totally understand the awkwardness, frustration, and "unpleasantness" of your situation. Hang in there, it will be over soon!
Love you girl! Carol |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3115
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 5:59 pm: | |
Dear Sabra, I am so sorry. I can imagine what you are enduring.
Praying for you...
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 2149
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 6:09 pm: | |
Sabra,
Praying for you as you "endure".
Diana |
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