| Author | Message | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2005 |
I've been reading through the personal stories about leaving the SDA church, and also various posts that jump out at me (there are so many!). I am so impressed with the love and faith shown. I noticed at least one person's name who is familar - Lisa Boyle-Davis. "HI" (waving). I am Nellie and Jim Davis' adopted daughter, Debbie. I would have written this by personal e-mail, but am not able to access the profiles. Also, Colleen, I was interested in your story of how you and your husband had a home church after leaving the Adventistism. Can you tell me how you did this? My husband would be willing to do this (even though he's an Adventist) - but I have no clue as to who to invite. Everybody is busy with their own churches. Who did you invite? Neighbors? I thought of inviting members of the Adventist church (and call it a vespers) but they are already so obligated to various offices and activites within the church. The nice thing about home churches is that there is no money or obligation involved. I imagine all it needs is a head elder who leads out. Once the group got too big, it would split. But, what does this group think of home churches? Debbie anisohedral@yahoo.com | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 268 Registered: 5-2004 |
Debbie, When we first started coming out we met with friends at home for quite awhile. There's actually several former SDA families in this area and even now once in awhile we will get together for "home church" on a weekend afternoon and cook tons of food and spend the day sharing experience and great Bible studies. I wouldn't think you would need an official Elder or anything. Just someone who is willing to lead out and pick what to study. My advice would be to keep your topics to straight Bible study. Pick a book like Hebrews, or Galatians (that's the one we did first...wow), or one of the Gospels. Then just go through verse by verse. It really is an awesome experience! Good luck! | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2005 |
That sounds wonderful, Esther! What area do you live in? I live in Minnesota in the Twin Cities and we have been here only five and a half years and know only the people at the Adventist church plus my husband's co-workers. How did you meet the other former Adventists in your area? Debbie | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 733 Registered: 7-2000 |
Debbie2, we met as a home church after leaving Adventism and consider it to have been a mistake. Our group was small, only 4 adults, and we had all been SDA. So there we were as a clump all still carrying the same SDA mindsets, same errors. There was no one else there to challenge us to move beyond where we were. We'd privately studied ourselves out of SOME of the errors of Adventism. However, our SDA arrogance was still in place. WE couldn't go to THEIR churches, because they met on Sunday, the wrong day. If they had rejected the sabbath, then clearly they were just plain wrong and clearly had nothing to share with us....the profound ones who had it all together. Did the Lord meet with us there? Certainly, and we made some progress. But in all honesty I can look back and tell you that the bulk of the progress stopped within the first year. After that, we had our new set of what we believed and we weren't going any further. It's a problem of the very small group I think.....you're all friends and no one wants to offend you by challenging you if they DO disagree. Now....remember, we were considering ourselves a church. That was our only spiritual outlet. Getting together for "Bible study", that's a whole different issue! If you are a group, like the FAF group, that is getting together to meet for study, you have other outlets the Lord can use to challenge you and prod you to grow in those areas that you frankly don't care to take a look at. I don't think the problem is unique to former adventists, by the way. I have known of at least 3 other "home churches" that quite obviously ended up with the same closed/exclusivist mindsets. Perhaps a large part of the problem is that the group is only answering to itself and no one else. So, my advise is, Bible study yes, home church NO! | ||
| Madelia Registered user Username: Madelia Post Number: 149 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hi Debbie, I live in the Twin Cities too!! | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 161 Registered: 3-2005 |
I agree with Lydell! We still meet with some of our small group that started out together questioning the SDA doctrines. We meet to fellowship and share our experiences. But - the best thing my husband and I did was to find a new Church to worship with. We have learned and grown so much since joining that Church. They have been understanding of what we came out of, and willing to answer our questions. I don't think I would have come as far as I have in healing from the SDA experience if I had only hung out with formers. That has its place, too! But the influence of solid Christians that haven't been corrupted by the SDA Church was what really helped me make the transition in a healthy way. It just seems more positive to be studying INTO NEW knowlege and understanding rather than OUT OF THE OLD! It is just a different focus! And seeing the JOY IN THE LORD and the ASSURANCE OF SALVATION that these fellow Christians have has been such a good experience! It helps me to KNOW that I have made the right choice in leaving the SDA Church. It's contagious - in a good way! It's such a blessing to worship with fellow Christians - true Christians that know Jesus! So as Lydell said, "Bible study yes, home church NO!" -tisha | ||
| Benevento Registered user Username: Benevento Post Number: 70 Registered: 4-2005 |
I'd like to make a suggestion--I think a home church would work if there were some guidelines-- like Bible only--some of us used the little study books that Zondervan and others put out, got them from local Protestant Boook Stores--We did one on Galations, it was wonderful, then we did another wonderful series, on the life of Christ, the harmony of the Gospels--I think there are about 7 books in that series and they were a real blessing.I'd like to do the Life of Christ series again!! Another thing you could do is each print out(pick a book) that Colleen has put on the web site, they are so deep and one a week would keep you busy!! The booklets have suggestions for ;eaders. and they have other books on leading small groups--it is more work than it sounds but if you have people really hungry to study the Word, it could work. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3034 Registered: 12-2003  |
Debbie, our home church consisted of us and our neighbors' family. They were Christian--never Adventist--and we met together for two years after meeting weekly for Bible study. Because they had never been Adventist, our studies with them were extremely helpful in our beginning to see the Bible accurately. In hindsight, I believe the Bible studies were the most helpful part of our venture. Our home church was wonderful in many ways--one of which was the deep Bible study we did when we took our turns to lead. One of the problems we bumped into was the fact that these neighbors, whom we loved, were nonetheless disillusioned with churches. They could never find a church that met all their criteria. Consequently, we increasingly began bumping into certain rigidities and annoyances that we felt we had to placate. Not good. Richard and I have come to believe very strongly that exiting Adventists should not meet exclusively together for church. Lydell has explained the reasons well; I could not more strongly agree with her. Bible study--YES! Home Church--no--unless there is some very clear divine intervention that makes it happen. In general, though, I believe God helps us find churches where we can grow. We need the "cross-pollination" of studying with people who have never been Adventist. Accountability and Bible teaching are so important, and as fresh "formers", none of us really knew how much we had to learn. Colleen | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 380 Registered: 7-2004  |
I love our small Bible study group (where most of the people have an SDA background). There is great support and closeness in having a shared background. But it just isn't a substitute for church. When we only spend time with others from our own little group we develop a very myopic view of the world and of God. Our experiences within SDAism have generally impacted us to have a more narrow outlook and if our only fellowship is with other formers we just continue this, albeit in a slightly different way. Besides I think it is a healthy step to overcome the "one true and perfect church" syndrome. | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2005 |
Thank you for all the good suggestions. And, Madelia, I would love to meet you! Please feel free to e-mail me at: anisohedral@yahoo.com Debbie | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2005 |
Here's another question - what IS church? If you look at Paul's advice in 1 Corinthians 14:26-35, this is what church would be (which sounds like a Bible study to me): - take turns - women be silent It doesn't sound planned or in any certain order (like prayer first; then singing; then serman; then prayer). No, it sounds more like the men are taking turns. One speaks; then another may feel inspired to led out in a song; and then another. But, it's by turn with no one person "hogging" the spotlight each time (like a paid pastor). And, it's not planned. There's no obligation. I don't say this in condemnation of organized churches. I recognize the good in them. I answered my own question about what "church" is, but I am still very interested in what all of you think of this. Debbie | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 734 Registered: 7-2000 |
You're right, I think, Debbie. It IS a Bible study! You have been in something that was most definitely NOT a "church", as God intends one to be. Now you have to get with God and get into the Bible to find out what He intended "church" to be. For instance, some hold rigidly to the "women be silent", others of us see things in the New Testament that indicate that women were involved in leadership as well. You and God can figure that one out. One mistake we made when we went back to look at the question of "church" was in noticing that all these groups were meeting as "home churches". Ah ha! we thought. There is our validation for what we were doing. We never stopped to notice that these were not solitary islands. Instead, they were connected. The apostles visited them, letters were passed around, the were in communication with each other, they took up offerings for each other. There was accountability. It is the rare "home church" these days, at least in our country, that is doing those things. That's an example of one of the things we needed the input of other Christians to see. In your study of "church", do keep in mind the historical setting of what you are reading as well. For instance, "home church" works quite well in an aggrarian society. But that is not our society today. For instance, in our church we have folks who come from as far as 45 miles away to come to church. Those folks are friendly with neighbors close by their home who are Christian as well. But there are differences in their styles of worship and a few differences in doctrine. Neither is right or wrong, just different. The advantage of their driving such a (relatively speaking) long distance to go to church is that they are now in a kind of church that allows them to freely express their worship from their own, I guess you could call it "heart language". They had been in a church with these folks before, but felt that something was missing, they were being forced into a mold of someone else's worship style. So, notice the historical setting, but also ask yourself if everything you see in that setting MUST scripturally be applicable today. As you noticed, they all took turns. Is it scripturally required that it be that way? I don't think so. I think we all should come to church with an attitude that we have something to offer. If there are several hundred people in the church, maybe you have no opportunity to stand before everyone and speak. That doesn't mean you had nothing to offer that day. Maybe you are that day the only person who can make an observation in a study group that is worded precisely the way someone else needed to hear it spoken. Maybe you are the one person who has the responsibility to spend extra time speaking to a visitor, or someone who is struggling. We ALL do have something to offer, and should offer it, everytime we go to church. There is some kind of corporate annointing to that happens when we meet as a church. Don't think I can really explain it. But I have seen it happen, and have experienced it mayself. The best example I can come up with is when I have seen someone struggling with some personal issue. The pastor is speaking directly to their problem. But they get up and go outside to "get a grip" before returning to the service. Now, someone can go outside speak to them, pray to them, minister to them. But you know, it is only going to be a bandaid fix on their problem. What they have done, in effect, is push away the Lord's hand so that he WOULDN'T touch their need. The person who went to minister to them then offered them a shoulder to cry on, maybe even some encouragement. But it was only temporary. Had they staid and continue to listen and open their heart, the Lord could then help them get to the other side of THE thing and put an end to it. God is there is a special way in the corporate group that meets. | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2005 |
Hello Lydell. I appreciate your answer. I agree with you that it isn't required of God for us to do things a certain way when we get together. Love is what binds us. But, there is still marriage (male and female) that seperates us. On the new earth it won't be that way. Nothing will seperate us. Debbie | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2005 |
A man was walking in the woods and came across a wide river. He desired to get to the other side of this river. He began to look for the easiest way across. Down the river from him there were some large rocks; and even further down he saw a large log had fallen across the river making an even easier path. But, when he turned his head towards the other direction upstream, he saw a sturdy man-made bridge and immediatly walked to it and went across and on his way. Now, it wouldn't have been wrong for the man to cross the river by the rocks or the log or even by swimming. It was just more pleasant for him at that time to take the bridge. It was what he wanted to do. The only sin for the man would not have been in his actions, but in his attitude. Having an accepting spirit is love. Having a discontent spirit is not love. This is sin then. Not the actions. (or the doctrines or beliefs or practices) In other words, churches can choose many different paths across the river. Some may be more pleasant than others, but that doesn't mean they are inheriantly better. What makes anything better is the person's happy spirit while they are going across the river (by whichever means). Of course, this is just an analogy and can be applied to most any action - such as eating, video watching, books, music, etc.. Debbie | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 163 Registered: 3-2005 |
Debbie2 wrote: "Love is what binds us. But, there is still marriage (male and female) that seperates us." Huh? I don't get that statement. -tisha | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2005 |
Hi Tisha. What I mean by that is that we as believers have one thing in common - the spirit of Jesus - or love. All other disagreements on theology and Bible texts are unimportant. It doesn't matter if we agree on them. But, it does matter that we cling to Jesus and have His spirit of love in us. That's the only thing that we need to have in common. When I said that marriage seperates us, I meant that our flesh (not spirit) is divided into groups of different families. These families are based on marriage. One does not feel free to simply walk into another persons home unannounced. There's a definite barrier there. It's called "flesh". The spirit accepts this and clings to the hope of the resurrection where there will only be one group and no barriers keeping anyone out of the group. I keep a respectful distance in my manners towards men. I honor them as a private might honor an officer in the army (no, I do not salute them! I just give this as an analogy for how I see them in my mind). And, I see my own husband as my commanding officer. This makes for two distinct groups. This world is full of groups that seperate us from each other. It is good and fine. Age makes for more groups. I also treat elderly people with great respect and deferance. Debbie | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 1088 Registered: 3-2005 |
Debbie said "What I mean by that is that we as believers have one thing in common-the spirit of Jesus-or love. All other disagreements on theology and Bible texts are unimportant. It doesn't matter if we agree on them..." Debbie, it does matter very much about who we believe Jesus is. If we believe that he did not pre-exist (as you stated on another thread), and that he is not really God who came in the flesh, then you have a completely different Jesus, and there is not a common bond of fellowship with other believers who believe that Jesus is who He claimed to be-and that is the great "I AM" who claimed to exist before Abraham, and has always existed with God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, the Triune God. Stan | ||
| Debbie2 Registered user Username: Debbie2 Post Number: 27 Registered: 11-2005 |
I accept what you say. I will now respectfully bow out of this discussion. Debbie |
