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Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1181
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 8:41 am: |     |
I was reading on CARM just "for fun" and found an interesting comment by someone. I thought I'd post it here to get it dissected a bit. Here was HIS take on what the "true" 10 commandments "should be", if I understand him correctly. Anyone ever heard this argument??
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ìMolten gods you will not make for yourself.
The Feast of Unleavened Bread you will guard. Seven days you will eat unleavened bread as I instructed you at the time in the month of Abib for in the month of Abib you came forth from Egypt.
Every wombís offspring is mine and all your male herds, the offspring of oxen and lambs ñ and a donkeyís offspring you will redeem with a lamb and if you do not redeem it you will break its neck. All your firstborn sons you will redeem ñ and none will appear before me empty-handed.
Six days you will work and on the seventh day you will rest ñ in the plowing and in the harvest you will rest.
And the Feast of Weeks you will make for yourself ñ the firstfruits of the wheat harvest ñ and the Gathering Feast at the yearís circuit.
Three times in the year all of your manliness will appear before the Lord, Yahwehfor I will dispossess nations from before you and enlarge your territory and no man will delight in your land when you go up to see the God of Israel, the face of Yahweh your God three times in the year.
You will not slay with leaven the blood of my sacrifice.
And the sacrifice of the Passover Feast will not stay the night to the morning.
The beginning of your groundís firstfruits you will bring to the house of Yahweh your God.
You will not boil a kid in its motherís milk.î
And Yahweh said to Moses: ìWrite for yourself these words for upon the command of these words I have cut a covenant with you and with Israel.î And he was there with Yahweh forty days and forty nights, he did not eat bread and he did not drink water and he wrote upon the tablets the covenant words ñ the ten words.
Exodus 34:17-28
http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=106&topic_id=24424&mesg_id=24424&page=&topic_page=3 |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1046
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 9:53 am: | |
This may be of some help:
quote:Goethe advanced the view that Exodus 34:10-28 originally contained a second decalogue.
Wellhausen (Code of Hammurabi, 331f) reconstructs this so-called decalogue as follows:
(1) Thou shalt worship no other god (Exodus 34:14).
(2) Thou shalt make thee no molten gods (Exodus 34:17).
(3) The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep (Exodus 34:18a).
(4) Every firstling is mine (Exodus 34:19a).
(5) Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks (Exodus 34:22a).
(6) And the feast of ingathering at the year's end (Exodus 34:22c).
(7) Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread (Exodus 34:25a).
(8) The fat of my feast shall not remain all night until the morning (Exodus 23:18b; compare Exodus 34:25b).
(9) The best of the first-fruits of thy ground shalt thou bring to the house of Yahweh thy God (Exodus 34:26a).
(10) Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk (Exodus 34:26b).
Addis agrees with Wellhausen that even this simpler decalogue must be put long after the time of Moses (Encyclopaedia Biblica, 1051).
Now, it is evident that the narrative in Exodus 34:27f, in its present form, means to affirm that Moses was commanded to write the precepts contained in the section immediately preceding. The Ten Commandments, as the foundation of the covenant, were written by Yahweh Himself on the two tablets of stone (Exodus 31:18; Exodus 32:15f; Exodus 34:28). It is only by free critical handling of the narrative that it can be made to appear that Moses wrote on the two tables the supposed decalogue of Exodus 34:14-26. Moreover, the law of the Sabbath (Exodus 34:21), which is certainly appropriate amid the ritual ordinances of Exodus 34, must be omitted altogether, in order to reduce the precepts to ten; also the command in Exodus 34:23 has to be deleted. It is interesting to observe that the prohibition of molten gods (Exodus 34:17), even according to radical critics, is found in the earliest body of Israelite laws. There is no sufficient reason for denying that the 2nd commandment was promulgated in the days of Moses. Yahweh's requirements have always been in advance of the practice of His people.
óInternational Standard Bible Encyclopedia
Chris |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1047
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 9:54 am: | |
While I was at it I also came across this excellent entry. Although it doesn't adress the question of Ex. 34, it is an excellent explanation of what the Decalogue really is:
quote:TEN COMMANDMENTS
Although many people refer to the ìDecalogueî as ìthe Ten Commandments,î this is unfortunate for several reasons. First, it obscures the fact that this is not what the OT calls them. Wherever it is referred to by title it is identified as aseret haddebarim, ìthe Ten Wordsî (Exod. 34:28; Deut. 4:13; 10:4). This sense is captured precisely in the Greek word decalogos. Second, in both the original context in which the Decalogue was given (Exod. 20:1) and Mosesí remembrance of the event in Deut. 4:12 and 5:22, the Decalogue is presented as a set of spoken words rather than a written set of laws. Third, ìTen Commandmentsî obscures the fact that the Decalogue is a covenant document whose form follows ancient Near Eastern treaty tradition. Fourth, as a code of laws the Decalogue is virtually unenforceable. For all these reasons, although the 10 statements are in the form of commands, we should follow the lead of the biblical texts and refer to them as the ìTen Words/Declarations,î the 10 fundamental principles of covenant relationship. The stipulations revealed in the ìBook of the Covenant,î the ìHoliness Code,î and other parts of the Pentateuch represent clarifications and applications of these principles. Presumably the stipulations of the covenant were reduced to 10 principles so they could be easily memorized.
Apart from Mosesí citation of the Decalogue in Deut. 5, the OT gives little if any evidence of giving the Decalogue greater authority than any of the other laws revealed at Sinai. This does not mean that these tablets were not treated as special. On the contrary, Moses notes that the Decalogue contained the only revelation that was communicated by God directly to the people (Deut. 4:12-13; 5:22) and committed to writing on tablets of stone by Godís own hand (Exod. 24:12; 31:18; 34:1; Deut. 4:13; 5:22; 10:1-4). All subsequent revelation at Sinai was communicated indirectly through Moses, the covenant mediator. The special status of the tablets is reflected in the fact that these tablets (and these alone) were deposited inside the ark of the covenant (Deut. 10:5; 1 Kings 8:9).
St. Catherineís Monastery as seen from atop Mount Sinai where Moses received the Ten Commandments.Two forms dominate Israelite covenant law. Casuistic law is framed in the third person, usually deals with specific situations, often cites consequences for compliance/non-compliance, and is cast in the following form: ìIf a person does X, then Y will/shall be the consequence.î Apodictic law by contrast is framed in the second person, usually deals with general principles, rarely sets conditions or cites consequences, and is cast in the following form: ìYou shall/shall not do X.î The Decalogue belongs to the latter category.
The Decalogue may be interpreted legitimately as a Bill of Rights, perhaps the worldís first Bill of Rights. Yet unlike modern bills of rights, this document seeks not to secure my rights but to protect the rights of others. I am perceived as a potential violator of the other personís rights. Understood this way, the significance of the 10 declarations may be summarized as follows:
(1) Godís right to exclusive allegiance (Exod. 20:3; Deut. 5:7).
(2) Godís right to self-definition (Exod. 20:4-6; Deut. 5:8-10).
(3) Godís right to proper representation by His people (Exod. 20:7; Deut. 5:11).
(4) Godís right to His peopleís time (Exod. 20:8-11); a householdís right to humane treatment by the head of the house (Deut. 5:12-15).
(5) My parentsí right to respect (Exod. 20:12; Deut. 5:16).
(6) My neighborís right to life (Exod. 20:13; Deut. 5:17).
(7) My neighborís right to a secure marriage (Exod. 20:14; Deut. 5:18).
(8) My neighborís right to personal property (Exod. 20:15; Deut. 5:19).
(9) My neighborís right to an honest hearing in court (Exod. 20:16; Deut. 5:20).
(10) My neighborís right to secure existence in the community (Exod. 20:17; Deut. 5:21).
The first four statements protect the rights of the covenant Lord; the last six protect the rights of the covenant community. The Decalogue calls on the redeemed to respond to the grace they have experienced in salvation with covenant commitment, first to God, and then to others. This is the essence of ìloveî (íahab) as understood in both the OT and NT. See Law, Ten Commandments, Torah.
Daniel I. Block
óHolman Illustrated Bible Dictionary
Chris |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2888
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 10:02 am: | |
Melissa, the study notes in my NIV Study Bible comment that this passage is sometimes referred to as the "Ritual Decalogue" because it can be convincingly divided into ten sections. Verses 18-26 are very similar to the directions given in 23:14-19.
Colleen |
Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 256
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 10:21 am: | |
I guess what made my heart ache the most about being around SDA's (I went to an SDA college), was that they sat around discussing all theoretical and theological STUFF while there are people out there who just NEED JESUS!
Talk about majoring on the minors!
Christ came to DO! He came to SAVE! He instructs us to LOVE others, not to philosophize ad nauseum.
Sorry, I got on my soapbox a bit there. But just remembering that brought back that feeling of desperation and frustration I felt in college. There is no hope in clinging to the Old Codes and Laws. And it takes their attention away from the only Hope which is Christ!
-tanya-
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Lynne
Registered user
Username: Lynne
Post Number: 72
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 11:38 am: | |
Thank you Tanya. Christ is not raised and praised in spirit in the SDA church since there is no separation of the flesh and the spirit. Christ is mostly spoken of in word by SDAs, thus theoretically. Adventism is basically a secular religion with members following laws for self improvement and self exaltation. I'm in Ephesians 10-20 making sure that I have the Whole Armor of God, since I was tricked and deceived and ensnared by the devil into adventism 18 years ago. I have salvation now and my mind is clear, the Holy Spirit has taken up residency in my heart and I'm praying for strength in the Lord and I will persevere in spirit and in truth. I'm going through the studies here in this forum and appreciate them being here. I'm also reading about the State of the Dead so I can rethink my teachings. No complex argumentive theology, just the bible. Theoretically speaking, it is either truth or error and a cult is a cult. |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1184
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 2:38 pm: | |
Thanks for that feedback. I had never heard of it. |
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