| Author |
Message |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 320
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 5:44 am: |     |
I thought this was interesting, in the GC's list of suggested initiatives:
quote:Focus on six to 12 year-olds for evangelism. Current research suggests that this is vital.
Of course it's vital; how else will they reach their membership goal? That age group can't possibly understand the issues enough to know what they're becoming a member of! |
Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 303
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 6:59 am: | |
Colleen, I did not know that about the Sr. Editor. I was thinking about writing a letter to the editor voicing my opinion as stated above. With your information in mind it would probably be a waste of my 37 cents.
I loved the article you linked as it said they need to provide web sites and feed it content. Talk about feeding the beast |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 692
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 8:29 am: | |
If you click on the link above...notice what is at the front of the church...it isn't Christ in any form but the 3 angels...it's angel worship pure and simple. It's sickening and I don't know why I didn't see what a powerful cultic symbol this is...it should have been a warning. The church I left also had the 3 Angels at the front made of stained glass. No cross, no picture of Jesus anywhere. |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 975
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 8:46 am: | |
I agree Colleen, that David Neff, editor of CT is part of the problem of muddled evangelical thinking today. If I am not mistaken, he left SDA for Episcopalian, which sometimes can be quite liberal.
Stan |
Windmotion
Registered user
Username: Windmotion
Post Number: 226
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 10:54 am: | |
Well, in all fairness when you drink in a tavern (bar, club, whatever)you are intending to drink more than just "in moderation." And at least in the United States bar atmospheres with the singles looking to "hook up" and the fights that break out, I would consider the atmosphere to be unchristian.
Familiarly,
Hannah
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Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 976
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 1:04 pm: | |
Well Hannah, where would you draw the line on what is unchristian? Is dancing in a nightclub inherently unchristian or worldly? See, this is where going beyond scripture can be dangerous, because someone is telling me what is unchristian based on some preconceived notion. What about going out to a night club to hear great jazz music? That is one reason I'm glad I am no longer SDA. I no longer have to worry about someone defining to me what is unchristian.
Stan |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 2053
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 2:00 pm: | |
I will put in my two-cents worth on this topic. I live in what generally would be considered a small town, a town of around 13,000 population. At my town the bars/nightclubs tend to be community gathering places. In fact, it seems to me that most the regulars at these places live close enough that they generally walk to the pubs, thus are no danger in causing an accident from drunk-driving home. I personally know nurmous people who are nightly regulars at these community spots and very seldom have more than two drinks. There is one country-westeran nightclub in my area that I like going to but I think I like that one more than the others because they keep the lights on in that one and I don't like not being able to see who I'm visiting with. Yeah, I guess there is some of that "hooking up" going on in these places but my observation is the folks tend to all know each other already and frankly, kereoke is fun. And, in California smoking is not allowed in the pubs anymore and that aspect alone makes those places more fun to go to. The biggest problem from what I've seen is that the local cops sit outside of the pubs and when the folks leave to go home the cops arrest them WALKING HOME with a drunk in public charge. The partiers just can't win. Can't drive home as that can be really super dangerous and can't walk home because drunk in public lands one a night or several nights in county. But, really, the pubs don't have to be dens of sin. Folks can go there and just have a good time. Some of the places even have darts. It's $4.00 per hour to play darts. And, there is pool and dancing and kereoke and dominos and cards. One place has oldies night. That's a good one, too. |
Windmotion
Registered user
Username: Windmotion
Post Number: 227
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 2:32 pm: | |
I don't think I said going to a bar is unchristian (although there are many who think that.) But if those people in that town are convicted about it (i.e. if they are tempted to do unchristian things there like they did before they were saved) then they shouldnt go. And if the tavern owners see their "regulars" disappearing, understandably they would be worried. Now if the adventists and baptists are preaching from their pulpits "going to the tavern is a sin" I would disagree with that, and maybe that was what happened. But not necessarily.
Conciliatorily,
Hannah |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 978
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 2:53 pm: | |
That is where I agree with you Hannah. The Holy Spirit will convict those whose motives have been to get drunk and whatever else. And it would be appropriate not to frequent the Taverns if that is the case. But, if you look at American history and the days of Charles Finney, who was a contemporary of EGW, well the focus in that day was preaching the message of staying out of the bars. Finney used to brag about being able to close down an entire town's bar industry with his preaching. He also used to brag that he could get anyone converted if you would set the right mood. In this situation that CT reportd on, I am a little suspicious if it's SDAs and Baptists preaching the message. Once the focus of preaching comes off of Christ alone and Him crucified, and then focuses on certain behavioral changes that the preacher judges is wrong, then it is like sweeping the house clean of one spirit, but then seven more coming back in its place, as the parable says that Jesus told.
Stan |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 347
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 4:44 pm: | |
I don't think that being in a bar or "tavern" is sinful or wrong in anyway.
I do wonder if I'm totally sold out to my Savior what my behavior and actions will be while enjoying the company of others in the bar?
Will others see that my greatest passion is my abandonment to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?
I need to ask, "Is my relationship to Jesus Christ my greatest passion in life??" I love the quiet time spent with Jesus and wonder how I change when I'm in public? Is He still Lord of my Life in all that I do? Do my actions and words give testimony of my passion?
My prayer is that my words and actions do. He is my closest friend and the one Person that makes life totally worth living. I have no problem at all enjoying a glass of wine and allowing my love of Christ to "bubble" out of me. Those of you who have met me know I don't bubble easily, I guess I'm a quiet bubbler (sp?). I know it is a subject I love to talk about and share and do wish I was more social and it was easier for me to bubble.
In Christ,
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 695
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 7:31 am: | |
A few years back...there was a minister who held Sunday night services at a bar here in town (Called the Pig & Whistle). Apparently, the bar wasn't too busy on Sunday night so they gave him the go ahead. Before this, he had been going into the bar, having beers with the patrons and sharing the Gospel...anyway...I thought, how like Jesus this man was. He went to straight to the ones who needed to hear it the most.
Not a bad ministry idea. |
Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 307
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 9:07 am: | |
The town in Mexico where this story happened was concerened about going bankrupt because a mass conversion would stop all the drinking. That leads me to believe they were going in there and telling them to stop right now. The you must not have "issues" before we can baptize you. If they would of went into the town and shared Jesus and Jesus only the Holy Spirit would of gradually worked on the people and lead them in the way He wanted them to go. In other words if the Holy Spirit had wanted the bars to shut down He would of provided other ways of supporting the town. Jesus is not going to leave us without food or shelter He loves us too much. The problems come when we try to rush His timeline and "fix" it ourselves. IMO this is when you get into trouble by adding to the gospel ie "you must stop sinning to let Jesus in your heart" quoted from our dear friend EGW. |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1179
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 10:21 am: | |
Amen, Violet. They always focus on the "sins" they can see, when the most harmful and difficult are those hidden well away from public view. |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 982
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 11:37 am: | |
Pheeki, Martin Luther and many others shared the gospel and read the Bible over a pint of ale in the local pubs. The gospel has nothing to do with closing down bars per se.
Here is another story that someone shared at a Billy Graham crusade. This man went out to a bar to meet girls and dance. He danced with one girl, who then shared with him a book by Nicky Cruz the gangmember who came to Christ thru Dave Wilkerson's ministry. This man became a Christian and has a powerful ministry now. God works in many ways.
Stan |
Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 308
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 11:54 am: | |
Stan, you said it brother! We have to be ready to meet people where they are then give it over to the Holy Spirit. He is the only one who can convence anyone to change.
Praise the Lord that we have Firemen willing to enter a burning building! |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 348
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 12:43 pm: | |
Pleehi, that is a great idea.
A few years ago I was involved in an idea called "Man Church". (not head of it) We met each month in a local Mexican Resturant/Bar and had a very nontraditional worship experience where we could bring friends who might not otherwise come into a church. There was no denominational connection to any church, just a bunch of guys with a passion to share Christ with other men. We met early on Sunday morning and some men really came to know Christ in a practical way for the first time in their lives.
In Christ,
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com
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