| Author |
Message |
Anotherseeker
Registered user
Username: Anotherseeker
Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 4:32 am: |     |
I believe i read on Truth or Fables that the pope DID NOT change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday but check "The Converts Chatechism of Catholic doctrine" 1957,pg 50. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. Also the "Catholic Record Sept/1st 1923" says "Sunday is our mark of authority... The church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact" Anyone got any feedback? |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 321
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 4:55 am: | |
Dinolf, Look at Leviticus 7:15-17. It would have been impossible for there to be a vegetarian Jewish priest. Verse 15 says
quote:Now as for the flesh of the sacrifice of his thanksgiving peace offerings, it shall be eaten on the day of his offering; he shall not leave any of it over until morning.
|
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 322
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 4:57 am: | |
Actually, I'm not sure if the priest ate it or the one presenting the offering ate it, but either way... someone was commanded to eat it, and "shall not leave any of it" |
Pauls
Registered user
Username: Pauls
Post Number: 45
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 5:39 am: | |
anotherseeker: here's my take on the Sabbath-Sunday issue:
the catholic church has the habit of taking credit for whatever it can whereiver it can...if it finds a parade somewhere, it would get out front and claim the parade was for it...i could cite examples, but the Sabbath to sunday is good evidence..
Saturday and Sunday were BOTH days of worship in the early church and for several hundred years after Christ. I do not have exact dates--like was Peter, Paul, John alive when this practice originated, but it is likely they were. The church, when they finally got around to "changing" sabbath to sunday by a "catholic" council, was merely formally establishing a practice that had gone on for centuries--that of celebrating the resurrection of Christ on Sunday.....
The issue of the "mark of authority" is this:
Catholics regard Protestants as still under their authority--as they are the only church that has salvation--and view all christianity has proceeding from them. Now, even though protestants claim to be sola scriptura, the catholics point out there is no scripture suppoor for sunday sacredness and the catholic is quick to claim credit for the Sunday observance of the protestant...after all protestantism came out of catholicism and brought sunday with them--in the interpretation of Catholics...
sidebar: If you read catholic literature, they have the same issues with what you can and cant do on Sunday that SDA have with Saturday--no shopping, no sports, etc..but they honor sunday...
But, most protestants do not see any particular day as "sacred" over another--since all the OT laws were fulfilled in Christ--so they are merely choosing Sunday as a day of worship and convocation because it is convenient to the populace as a whole...
Luther said something to this effect: "The Saturday sabbath was done away with at the cross...however, as a practical matter, the church body needs a day to assemble to worship and carry on its function, and so, the church, in its wisdom has selected Sunday. There is no other reason than the convenience of the church..
so while the catholics claim authority because Sunday is a holy day, the protestant does not view it as a holy day, and does not accept the baggage of Sunday that the catholic has to bear....
I know i am parapphrasing it loosely but it sums it up and explains why most protestants do not refrain from shopping, going out to eat, etc--because it is not a Holy day. It is merely a period of time for of assembly for worship....
i hope this is helpful. anyone else who knows more or better, correct me if i erred here.
|
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 696
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 7:35 am: | |
Good synopsis, Pauls. |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1175
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 9:20 am: | |
Welcome anotherseeker. Frankly, if you go to other Catholic sources, you will find that they acknowledge the sabbath of the Bible was Saturday and that Sunday is the day the modern church worships on because of the resurrection. I looked in the Catholic encyclopedia from 1950s and one from the 1990s a few years back at our local library, and I don't think any SDA would disagree with their findings in those documents. Someone somewhere may have tried to claim that "they" changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, but I think if they do, it is with the intent of trying to keep in line with the 10 commandments rather than to disparage them. They don't understand the passing of the old covenant to the new or how worship on Sunday began and evolved, so they have come up with an answer that they think makes them square with the old covenant law (which says to worship one day in every 7). Remember, Al Gore claimed he invented the internet. So, just cuz someone says they did something, one only need check history for the truth. They also claim to have been in existance from the line of Peter. Does anyone really believe that?? The earliest records of the church fathers called Sunday the Lord's day and speak of worship on Sunday. Long before the Catholic church ever existed. All claims that Constantine changed anything are greatly exaggerated. All I can tell the man did in regards to "Sunday" was legalize what the current practice already was. He CHANGED nothing in regards to Saturday-Sunday. I think Canright's book on the history of Sunday is one of the best I've read. You can find it here: http://www.sdaoutreach.org/ then in the bottom right window, look for the PDF of "The Lord's Day from Neither Catholic nor Pagan" by DM Canright.
Regardless of any history, our practice should be based upon what scripture says, if it speaks to the subject. For that, we can see clear teaching in Romans 14 that holy days are an issue of personal preference. No moral law is an issue of personal preference. In Col 2, we are told all holy days were to serve as shadows of Christ, and after Christ has come, we really have no need for them. In Galatians, Paul is exasperated to find them observing holy days. He calls them foolish. Scripture never identifies a "wrong" day or time to worship God. Hebrews 4 is clear that what used to be the 7th day is now today. There is nothing wrong with worshipping God any time, any day, any where. Finally, we are protestants because "we" protested what the catholic church taught. What they claim or do or say has nothing to do with the truth I live with. They claim things about Mary that no protestant supports...so does that mean we are equally bound to Mary as their claims of changing the sabbath? As someone on here is fond of saying, that's a strawman argument. Funny thing is, the catholic church has mass every day of the week, not just Sunday. That is more like the early Christians in Acts who are said to have met daily.
Many of our Christian churches have services on Saturday and Sunday. If we viewed Sunday in the same way SDAs view Saturday, that would not be possible. Those are just my thoughts in brief. |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1176
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 9:24 am: | |
BTW, I don't know any catholic who observes Sunday as a sabbath of "Biblical proportion" as SDAs claim...including shopping, eating out, working on their yards, etc. There might be some...but I think that may be one of those things on paper, not practice. |
Dinolf
Registered user
Username: Dinolf
Post Number: 15
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 1:13 pm: | |
Thanks Raven! So at least the tribe of levi where not vegetarians for shure... |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2868
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 2:47 pm: | |
Welcome, Anotherseeker.
Meslissa and Pauls, great explanations.
Colleen |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 1011
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 5:24 pm: | |
In regards to Leviticus, both the priests and common Israelites were commanded in the book of Leviticus to eat meat on certain occasions. And even in the same chapter that the SDAs like to use to support their view (Leviticus 11), it says that they COULD eat clean meats (beef, lamb, fish, etc.)!
So the SDAs actually contradict the "unclean meats law" they supposedly believe is binding: The Law says you can eat clean animals--the SDAs say you can't eat clean animals!
Jeremy |
|
