| Author | Message | ||
| Derrell Registered user Username: Derrell Post Number: 66 Registered: 10-2002 |
I am sitting here in my living room with the TV on TCT, a religious network that is doing their telethon. A blonde preacher from Indiana is crying out that we are currently in the atonement time and that if people call in and give their atonment offering they will receive a double portion, they will have God's presence, their sons and daughters will get off of drugs, all sickness will be healed, and blind people who call will see. I'm sure everyone has seen these things. "Cast your bread upon the water and it will return to you all puffed up with interest when you give me your money." "When you send in a copy of your mortgage along with an offering of $5,000.00 we will burn that mortgage on this alter of burnt sacrifices and tomorrow the bank will have no record of your debt. If you don't have the money, take out a loan and send in a copy of that note for us to burn and it will disappear." The people who fall for this horrible fraud are usually the people who can least afford it, and they live in poverty while the @#$@#$%@ televangelists fly around in private jets, live in expensive houses, and drive luxury vehicles paid for by the sacrifice of the poverty stricken! On the basis of false promises made in God's name!!! Did the disciples drive around in luxury chariots? Did Paul travel in his own yacht? Did Jesus even have a place to lay his head? How dare they!!! There is nothing wrong with wealth, but gaining it in this manner is deserving of nothing more than a bolt of lightning. Now some woman is on there singing that that "He'll give you a miracle." This monster is prophesying that some viewer is being attacked by the devil right now because God is stuck with the Hebrew calendar and the person is going to get an unbelievable blessing if a large offering is given to TCT before October 12. If you only give what you can afford it is an insult to God because it doesn't show faith. O.K., my blood pressure is throught the roof and I have to go shut this garbage off. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 230 Registered: 8-2004 |
Ever hear Ray Stevens sing "Would Jesus Wear a Rolex"? | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 776 Registered: 3-2005 |
Mary, another great Ray Stevens song is "They sell you salvation, while they sing amazing grace" Derrell, You are absolutely right. I am not familiar with TCT network, but it sounds very similar to the blasphemous programming found on Trinity Broadcasting Network, (also known as Heresy Broadcasting). It is really sickening. This is what happens when so much of the gullible "Christian" world doesn't study their Bibles. They follow every wind of doctrine according to what their itching ears want to hear. The "god" of these people is some cosmic Santa Claus who if you just have enough faith in your faith, then you can have luxury cars, yachts, and whatever. The popular church today is market driven and purpose driven, instead of led by the Spirit diligently studying the Word of God. If Christians were really studying their Bibles, alot of these popular ministries and books would not be selling like they are. So-called Christian TV is an abomination to God. What Derrell is describing is "golden calf" and "high places" worship. Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2526 Registered: 12-2003  |
Derrell, I understand your anger, and it has legitimate cause. Frequently I pray that God will reveal the true natures of people who are scamming others this way. I believe it is always a Biblical prayer to ask that the truth be known and that God deal with the unrighteous and the deceivers. I worked for an Adventist televangelist once, and what I learned while I was there shocked me and caused my parents, at least, to stop sending support. I have to take solace in the promise that God is just and merciful. I have to leave the injustice that abounds in His hands and focus on my own surrender, asking Him to protect me from self-deception and rationalization and praying that He keep me faithful and growing. I have to give up my right to get even and pray instead that God will thwart evil and glorify Himself through the circumstances and in my own awareness. I have to ask Him to keep me grounded in truth and truthfulness. Derrell, I empathize greatly with you, and you and yours remain in my prayers. Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 640 Registered: 1-2003 |
Yes. Imagine how rich Ellen would have been if there had been tv in the 1800's. As it was, she died with a vast estate from her written words. I just finished reading a book called the Devil in the White City. It's about the Chicago Worlds Fair and life before the turn of the century...people were easily led and duped. I can see how Ellen gained such a foothold back then...but NOW? I would like to think we are smarter and more educated now... | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 95 Registered: 4-2005 |
I have not worked for any tele-evangelist, but I did work for the former George (golden tongued) Vandeman as his song director and singer. I feel I hold the distinction of probably being the only other minister whom he kicked - physically kicked - three times! In self-righteous anger! When I was a teenager working for the VOP, and he came to Glendale for the first time, I idolized him. I talked to him about entering the ministry. I thought he was as saintly as Paul. Years later I discovered otherwise. All Glory is to go to Abba Father, the Sovereign God Eternal; not a drop is to go / come to us! These ordained crooks will someday reap their due reward. (I'm not including Vandeman in this group.) Jess | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 642 Registered: 1-2003 |
Why on earth would Vandeman kick you in self-righteous anger? I must know, if you are willing to share. I heard he went through hell with one of his sons. My husband got an invitaton to attend Doug Batchelors meetings here in FT. Worth in Oct. I had to laugh at his picture...he is posing, gazing up to heaven with a bible in his hand looking rather saintly. They had a filter on him for that soft heavenly glow...all that was missing was the halo! Why can't he just smile for the camera like a regualar guy???!!! | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 1058 Registered: 7-2003  |
They do that with a lot of older folks ... to hide the wrinkles and make them look "younger". It's funny when you see an interview of someone older with someone young, one "filtered" the other not. Is anyone surprised someone older has ... wrinkles??!  | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 96 Registered: 4-2005 |
Well Pheeki, It was like this: We were conducting a series of meetings in New Jersey. A very small attendance. He started out on the large platform on stage in this auditorium. Stopped his sermon to give an angry "You are disrupting our meeting, can't you see that? Please just leave NOW!" to a workman who was trying to fix the PA system. The next night we were on the main floor. At the close of the sermon I sang the "appeal song." I knew how to sing appeal songs. I was singing softly, reverently. At the very close I SOFTLY went up on a higher note to end the song. While holding the note, I felt three sharp, hard kicks to the back of my calf. WHOP! WHOP! WHOP! I managed to end the song gracefully and sat down. After the meeting he said nothing more to me, given the confusion and bustle associated with gathering up supplies and everyone leaving for the night. I had a rather long drive home so not seeing him I went home. Shortly after telling my wife about it, around 11:00 that night, the phone rang. It was Elder Vandeman. He was very angry. He asked me what I thought I was doing singing like that. I was confused. "What do you mean?" I asked. "Showing off like you did at the end going up on a high note." He continued to lecture me on the sin of pride and that it was a grivious wrong I had done to be so proud as to show off my singing abilities during his meetings. I assured him that I was not showing off, by the simple fact that I had sung it so softly. For me to show off I would have blasted that high note! He would not believe me! I was shocked! I said, "Elder Vandeman, I can honestly say before God that God knew my heart was in the right place and I was trying to sing with deepest meaning the message of that song and ended it in a most reverent fashion, suitable for an appeal or closing prayer." He said something to the effect that I should never pull a "stunt" like that again while singing for him. I once more said I was sorry he thought I was showing off but I knew I was not whether he believed me or not! I said, as a singer I use my talent to express the meaning of the song as best I can. He said nothing about kicking me three times nor did he apologize for kicking me or his anger. A year later he phoned from a mid-west city where he was conducting meetings and requested I come to be his singer. As it happened, I did have other responsibilities at that time and said I would not be able to come. That was the last time I ever spoke to him. My wife and I attended Academy with both his boys. One boy committed suicide. I met his oldest son, George Jr. in 2003, and briefly mentioned this story. He said, "I'm surprised he didn't kick you even harder!" I've changed the words of the love song, "Three coins in the fountain," to "Three kicks to the leg bone!" LOL So NOW......you know the REST of the story! LOL Jess | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2532 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jess, I can imagine how stunned and confused you must have felt. Praise God He has you safely in His hand and out of that truly rarified environment of Adventist show-biz/evangelism. At least you can know that God, who DID know your heart, used your song to touch hearts open to Him. What a memory! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1855 Registered: 3-2004  |
Jess, I do not know what to say except, Thank you God for taking Jess out of that environment and into Your presence. You are awesome in how you bring individuals to you. Diana | ||
| Derrell Registered user Username: Derrell Post Number: 68 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jess, I was at the GC Sessions in Indianapolis in 1990. The event was held in a pressurized dome, so the main doors going in and out were rotating doors, but the ones to the loading docks were not. I was in a media truck out in a loading bay when I saw Vandeman's face peering throught the small window in the walk-through door. I went over and opened it, and the pressure just blew him out onto the dock. He straightened himself out in an attempt to regain his dignity, and found to his dismay that the person he was looking for was not there. Now he had to go back through that door, only this time bucking the pressure. Being a man of small stature, he was having a difficult time, so I put my hands on his back and heaved him through the door, whereupon his hair cracked and flipped back. Poor guy, I pretended not to see as I shut the door. Biting my tongue, I went back to the truck and exploded in peals of laughter. I guess it is human nature that when the dignity of those who have no humour is shaken, we are amused. Had I known your story, I might have been tempted to use a foot instead of my hands to help him along. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 643 Registered: 1-2003 |
I love the song "3 Coins in the Fountain"! I had to laugh out loud when I read how you modified it!! (I have the CD "Mob Hits", which contains the song...if you don't have it, I suggest you get it. It's full of Dean Martin, Frank, Louie Prima...I love it.) I would be absolutely dumbfounded if I was kicked while performing...I can't believe you held it together. So Vandeman had Ellen's gift of reading peoples hearts and knowing their supposed sins...wow!!! Thanks for sharing. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2538 Registered: 12-2003 |
Derrell, I admit your story amused me, too. The televangelist I worked for used to study Vandeman's tapes and tried to model himself after him. In retropsect, there's plenty to laugh aboutóand I'm so glad that God can protect the hearts of the innocent who are deceived. Praise God He is our Judge and Redeemer. Colleen | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 100 Registered: 4-2005 |
I enjoyed all your remarks, comments and personal experiences. I doubt anyone of you will read this - being I'm so late in posting. Been very busy with family issues, remodeling work, etc. Although when I recall and recount that experience today, it seems more humerous than ever. At the time my wife and I were so shocked I had a hard time fitting it into the firmly established mold of almost "star worship" I had of the man. No doubt not having a father helped promote my love for him to a degree. When we heard of the problems involving his two sons and finally the one boy's suicide, I have wondered a lot over the question that if he possessed so little self control over his anger in public as to physically kick someone - although he sat close behind me and the pulpit - in public! What could his demeanor have been at home with his sons and wife behind closed doors? Once more we retreat to the relief of knowing we are not the judge of anyone else, save He Who IS Omniscience! J. | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 672 Registered: 7-2004 |
When I think of Vandemen's smooth delivery, what kind of restraint must he have had to keep that image so flawless. I agree that there had to be another outlet through which the undesirable aspects of personality must have flowed. Families often must face and absorb that less desirable stuff. It's not right, just turns out to be the way things are. | ||
| Derrell Registered user Username: Derrell Post Number: 75 Registered: 10-2002 |
Anyone here familiar with 3ABN? What is your experience with, or knowledge of them? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2581 Registered: 12-2003 |
Nothing direct--only what I see via the internet and what I occasionally hear. I know that I have a really hard time taking Danny Shelton seriously. Call me jaded, but my confidence in SDA televenagelists has worn pretty thin... Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1921 Registered: 11-2002 |
The only Christian tv station I have any tolerance for is EWTN and even it gets a little spun every so often. My favorite tv program comes on at ten pm Pacific time on EWTN. It is called Coming Home or something like that. | ||
| Derrell Registered user Username: Derrell Post Number: 76 Registered: 10-2002 |
At least the good sister doesn't use donor funds to fly around the world in private jets, purchase luxury cars, and live in expensive houses... she is a nun. | ||
| Wooliee Registered user Username: Wooliee Post Number: 45 Registered: 6-2005 |
Derrell, I had the opportunity to go to 3ABN campmeeting this summer, and the speaker I saw was really good. Can't remember his name. I was only there for one meeting. As far as 3ABN's leader, Danny Shelton, I will take the "If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all" road. Julie | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2583 Registered: 12-2003 |
I hear what you are saying, Derrell. I believe it is always appropriate to pray that God will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and to deliver us (including the innocent, the deceived, and the vulnerable) from evil. I had an unforgettable experience several years ago that extended over a period of two or three years. A widely loved person was privately misdirecting funds, micro-managing so that his board didn't know what his employees knew who didn't know what his administration knew who didn't know...you get the picture. (This was not an SDA organization, by the way.) There were many innocent victims along the way who got shut out or thrown out or disillusioned, etc. It became clear to several of us who were Christians that we were not dealing simply with an arrogant buffoon but with a highly intelligent person who was, quite simply, evil. For a period of about two and a half years, several of us committed to pray that God would expose this person and deliver the organization from him/her. Meanwhile, every avenue was explored to deal with the problem through "correct channels". This person was always able to manipulate circumstances to protect his/herself and implicate the complainers. We finally realized we had absolutely no recourse except prayer. Our families prayed. We prayed. For over two years we concertedly prayed, and we became aware that we were dealing with a powerful "stronghold", if you will. One person involved I will forever admire as a giant of spiritual commitment and integrity. During these years of praying, she would frequently awaken early in the AM and realize God was asking her to pray. She would quite literally pray for three or four hours before arising for work. Interestingly, during our extended months of praying, the situation became increasingly bad. The said person's compromises became more and more visible; more and more chaos ensued; the employees began to feel off-balance. One day the lady who prayed so faithfully met me outside the building and said to me, "Help is coming. I can't tell you how or what, but I KNOW. Help is on the way." She was jubilant. (Mind you, this lady is the farthest thing from charismatic that I can express. She is highly structured, lives by the rules, and is the farthest thing possible from impulsive. Her relationship with Jesus is grounded in regular Scripture reading and prayer--no outward manifestations, please!) About three weeks later, in a literally shocking, totally unpremeditated move, the board met when this person was out of town. A couple of members presented some recent information, and that entire groupómany of whom were in said person's pocket, so to speak, voted to ask said person to leave. The person was stupefied and outraged but had to leave. There was no possible way to explain this outcome except as a direct act of God. The lady who had been praying told me later that three weeks before that board meeting, God had let her know during one of her night prayer vigils that He had taken care of the situation and it would be resolved soon. Her husband, a board member, was deeply nervous as he prepared to go the fateful meeting. He had often been snubbed when attempting to bring this situation to light. As he prepared to go, this lady said to him, "Don't worry. It has already been accomplished in the heavenlies. God let me know." So, Derrell, I can only say that prayer, though it often seems to us a last resort, is truly our most powerful weapon. The God of Truth is in control. He is Sovereign. He is the God of both mercy and justice. He asks us to intercede, and He is the revealer of truth and the defender of the weak. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1922 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dear Darrell, You know why they are called nuns? Because they don't get none. Tyhey get subsistance and take vows of poverty so to those of us who are addicted to luxery is seems like they don't got none.susan_2 | ||
| Zjason Registered user Username: Zjason Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2005 |
Danny Shelton visited our church for he is pretty tight with a couple of our leaders. This was about a year after the flack between him and his wife committing "spiritual adultery", and I was in the beginnings of my disenchantment with the church in general. My take on him is that he talks alot and puts on a pretty pompous attitude (I'm doing what God wants, and how dare you say no to me...) I think that the proverbs says something about a man of many words... Jason | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 574 Registered: 4-2000  |
Zjason, I was always annoyed by Danny Shelton constantly holding Linda's hand during the TV interviews. Life has repeatedly demonstrated to me that couples who put on such continual public gestures have an unhealthy marriage--while trying to tell us otherwise. Dennis Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3334 Registered: 12-2003 |
Good point, Dennis. I have to say, though, that one expression of public affection I will never forget was seeing my flute teacher in college, Peggy Bell, and her husband, the dean of the school of engineering, Charles Bell, holding hands when they walked together. They were probably old enough to be my parents, and I had never seen any people that age holding hands. (No, they weren't recently wed, either. Their oldest son was only four years or so younger than I.) Because I was Peggy's student, I was privileged to be invited to their home several times, and the two of them always showed each other respect and admiration. Peggy died this past year, but several months before, Charles wrote us a brief note in a card mentioning her decline and how hard it was. I completely relate to your aversion to Danny's hand-holding with Linda, Dennis--but there was something so superficial and contrived about his attitude toward not only her but to life that it put the lie to the hand-holding. The Bells, on the other hand, have been an example to me all these years of a couple who showed each other support, respect, and admiration over a lifetime together. Colleen |
