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Catalyst
Registered user
Username: Catalyst
Post Number: 47
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 7:51 am: |     |
I am sorry that many of you have had a vision of SDA's as "sheep stealers" - that is not something I have seen - I guess that it would be an easy leap if you believe that you are the "remnant" and others are lost.
I also am not familiar with the theology of "you must be SDA to be saved". Just simply never seen that.
But - honestly - let not make it like other churches don't "sheep steal" or treat people rudely - or even feel that they have "God in a box". When you see that at other churches you simply go and visit and attend another church right?
Think of this as a divorce - you have figured out that you and the SDA church are not a good match - it is not necessary to disparage the other party on the way out the door is it? It does not make you look more Christian or help them in any way - "What soever things are true. . ."
Bill |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 238
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 9:12 am: | |
Bill:
In Adventism (which I was in almost all my life) I often heard people commenting about various non-Adventists, "What a wonderful Christian! They really have potential if they could just get 'the message' and become SDA!" That was the norm, not the exception.
You wrote: "I guess that it would be an easy leap if you believe that you are the "remnant" and others are lost."
Exactly! And that's what the SDA church actually DOES teach. They say that they are the fulfillment of Revelation's statement, 'Here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus' and that the rest of the Christian world is either 'That whore' or 'her daughters'.
In MOST Protestant Churches (and I have been around lots of those too) that attitude is very rare or non-existant. Of course human nature is human nature. There are rude people where ever you go. I don't believe that 'prejiduce whereever you go' is an excuse for remaining in 'aparthied'.
I don't know where you were in SDAism to miss the 'SDA to be saved' attitude. Well maybe you've heard the people who are not SDA may be saved, but you have to become SDA to be sealed and to live thru the time of trouble'?
I personally knew a number of people who struggled with the idea that if 'the world' (including or especially Christians in other churches) didn't know the SDA message they would be saved according to 'the light they had' but if they were exposed to and rejected Adventism they would be lost. People would come to me and ask if it wasn't better to NOT 'share the truth' because it would cause people who would otherwise be saved to be lost. It really puts a damper on the missionary spirit!
"Whatsoever things are true" - an apt quotation! The point is that the basis of Adventism is NOT truth! The very beginning of Adventism was the deception of timesetting that they claim God was in on! Yes, there are SDAs who have apparently moved on, but they haven't turned from the basic attitude of any method of means to the end.
Yes, leaving Adventism could be equated with divorce - but I think it could be even more aptly with discovering the fact that your 'spouse' was no true husband at all, but rather an unnatural substitute. Should we not be allowed to grieve?
Should others who might fall for the same thing be warned?
Religion may be a smorgasbord, but Reality is not! Reality and Phantasm are not two equal alternatives. And God inhabits and invites us to Reality.
RE: sheep stealing
Yes, there are other churches who 'steal sheep'. Most of the ones I'm aware of have some of the same problems Adventism has: the idea that they are superior to the rest of the world, that THEY have the truth to the exclusion of all others, a tendency to major in minors, a tendency to dictate what members ought and ought not to do, a prescribed book list, a loss of the realization that we are saved by Grace ALONE, etc.
However, if we tried to mention EVERY instance of a particular problem every time we talked about ONE we would soon cease to be able to discuss anything.
The more common attitude I've found is, 'Thank God you've found somewhere to fellowship with other Christians - never mind if it's not the same church as where I go, we are brothers and sisters in Jesus.'
As you see even on this board, there are many different understandings about 'hard points', and about which church to attend, and about particular points of behavior and doctrine. But between Christians those can be discussed and disagreed over while the participants in the discussion continue to remain siblings in Jesus.
RE: disparage
Definition as found at http://www.brainydictionary.com/words/di/disparage155594.html (I just wanted to make sure I was using it right):
"To match unequally; to degrade or dishonor by an unequal marriage. To dishonor by a comparison with what is inferior; to lower in rank or estimation by actions or words; to speak slightingly of; to depreciate; to undervalue. Inequality in marriage; marriage with an inferior."
(As an aside, I found it interesting to see how intimately that word is connected to marriage!)
Now on to my thoughts: Disparage by it's very definition implies IMPROPERLY valuing someone (or some entity). It implies in it's very core a dishonest slanting, or inventing of the facts. Now this is only my own understanding, but speaking the truth in love is NOT the same thing.
I stand ready to be corrected!
Blessings,
Mary |
Windmotion
Registered user
Username: Windmotion
Post Number: 194
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 10:12 am: | |
I agree with you Mary. If leaving the Adventist church could be considered a divorce, then the justification would be spousal abuse. What kind of husband tells his wife that if she leaves him he will kill her? (read doom to hellfire)And like a jealous husband the SDA church is angrier if you form a relationship with a new church then if you just stayed single. Also, when you leave the church it is rather like leaving a domestic violence situation in that you leave such a large part of your life behind. I guess you could call FAF a domestic violence shelter! (I could go on with my analogy, but I think you get my point.)
Metaphorically,
Hannah |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 241
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 10:23 am: | |
LOL! and not so metephorically too! What kind of husband tells his wife that if she disagrees with him (read disagrees that 'God gave him his doctrine') she's better off dead and in the bottom of the sea?
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Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 647
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 11:33 am: | |
Helovesme2 writes: Exactly! And that's what the SDA church actually DOES teach. They say that they are the fulfillment of Revelation's statement, 'Here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus' and that the rest of the Christian world is either 'That whore' or 'her daughters'.
And Pheeki says: There hasn't been one human yet that keeps the commandments of God!
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2540
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 12:00 pm: | |
Mary, thank you for your articulate insights. It's great to read a long post from you--I think this is the first time you've actually shared your deep convictions about Adventism, your experience with it, etc. Thank you so much for sharing--and I praise God that He is bringing you to confidence and safety in Him!
Great analogy, Hannah--I totally agree with you and Mary.
Colleen |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 966
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 12:53 pm: | |
Regarding "sheep stealing," Doug Batchelor admits to this, in the quote posted on this thread!
At the 2000 GC Session, the SDA church admitted that 96% of their "evangelism" is targeted at Christians!! This does NOT happen in non-cult churches! Christian churches are more concerned with fulfilling the Great Commission and reaching the unsaved--not the saved!
Jeremy
(Message edited by Jeremy on September 14, 2005) |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1066
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 2:24 pm: | |
The very fact they do "Revelation Seminars" says who they're trying to attract. MOST non-Christians don't give a rip about what Revelation says or any end-times scenarios.
MOST genuine evangelical churches are not putting brochures on their neighboring churches cars during service to get them to drive next door. MOST of them are seeking to attract the unchurched and the unsaved. I like my church's motto: "Not the only christians, but christians only".
I hope they don't all come to my church. Parking is hard enough to find as it is  . |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 248
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 2:30 pm: | |
GOOD point Melissa!!
Mary |
Catalyst
Registered user
Username: Catalyst
Post Number: 55
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 4:16 pm: | |
Helovesme - Re: Exactly! And that's what the SDA church actually DOES teach.
I agree - that is why I said it. <grin> That is why that would be an easy leap. I just never heard it myself, and I was apologizing because I can see how hurtful that would be.
Re: you have to become SDA to be sealed and to live thru the time of trouble'?
No - I never heard that either - not to say you didn't - just that I never did. I always thought that it was dumb to have a department in the church whose job it was to keep church and state apart when it was believed that Christ could not come till they were together <grin>.
Re: Should we not be allowed to grieve?
Sure - no problem there - just that hate/venom and nasty things said just tend to drive people away.
Re: disparage - to lower in rank or estimation by actions or words; to speak slightingly of; to depreciate; to undervalue
You don't think that many of the things said tend toward the disparaging? Not that I don't feel them myself at times- it is frustrating I agree. I guess that the problem is that in person we love and care for people who are Adventist - it is the frustration at the "corporate" adventist that brings on the irritation.
I guess that when you meet with a number of people who are divorced it is natural to have them talk lousy about their ex-spouse. I am further along that line of grieving and so probably ought to just leave you alone. I am over that part of the process and so do not relish the rehashing of the mistreatment - RARELY do I have the level of anger and frustration that I see voiced here. I guess that I would rather be part of something lovely than continuing to meet and talk about past transgressions.
Bill
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Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1070
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 8:20 am: | |
So, Bill, do you not have SDA family? I can't remember, but have you actually left the church publically so that SDA family knows? And do they treat you the same regardless? I know some on here who are years out, but have family that continue to badger them for "leaving the truth". How do you put it in the past and walk away from family that continually pokes you with negativity and contentions? I am still trying to figure out how to compartmentalize my emotions to the point that those barbs have no impact on me, and that the fears my older son occasionally talks about are somehow not supposed to affect my life or my perception of adventism. Yes, on some level, it's the "corporate", but let's face it, the corporate is supported by its membership. If I didn't like abortion, it would probably be wrong for me to be a member of planned parenthood just because they provide cheap OB/GYN services for those who need them. Ultimately you support the whole of the organization, for better or worse. And no SDA would let me say ... well, I disagree when they call Sunday the sabbath, but they're serving God otherwise. It seems a double standard, that I personally know B practices regularly.
I suspect most people who come here do so to heal. Those who are just angry at the religion aren't trying to make a new life in Christ and re-learn all they "know". But you have to get the poison out of the system somehow. I think it is very healthy mentally to have a support system for such a process.
I've been hanging around her a little over two years. I've seen some come and go through that time. I've never seen anyone that was here just to wallow in their anger. But if the "old timers" weren't here to be a beacon of hope to those who've just left, I'm not sure this would be a true place where people could heal and move on. If you can put it all behind you, and never deal with anything in that regards again, you have something to teach others. But I know for me, and some others, it's not just a past event. It is also a present event any time you deal with family. |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 293
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 8:54 am: | |
Good points, Melissa. While I've never perceived myself as being particularly bitter or angry (or only mildly so), it does feel like there's never closure, particularly each time there's interaction with SDA family and friends. I think it's hard for there to be closure because most SDA's don't accept a former's decision as being okay. They either are praying/trying to convince them to return, or have written them off as apostates doomed to annhilation. In addition, I still find it difficult to share as much of my current life with my SDA family and friends, because there's always a nagging feeling that I might be either offending them or opening the wound some more. For example, I don't feel comfortable telling my SDA family about the latest church we've been to and how excited I am to go back because just maybe it's the church God has in mind for us. I can't tell them that, because they would most certainly not share in my excitement; instead they would know that can't possibly be God's church for us because it's not SDA. No matter how you look at it, there is always a huge dividing wall between SDA's and non-SDA's, and that's what makes closure and moving on so difficult. |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1071
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 9:19 am: | |
Raven, I used to tell B that I knew God had lead me to my church, how I'd prayed to find a church and tried all these churches and talked about some of the reasons why I knew I was at the church God wanted me to serve in. His response was always the same: what "spirit" are you following? Because it's outside his realm of "truth" that "God" could lead someone to a non-SDA church, he could never believe God really was leading me. His reasons for being SDA have to do with being part of the remnant church, keeping commandments, studying the "whole" Bible, and being a part of the "true" church. Do you see my eyes rolling...how is THAT following the Spirit of God? I've figured out he thinks the same of my position as I think of his. He thinks he is right, and inversely so do I (who intentionally does something he knows is wrong??) So, after years and hours of arguments, no one mentions church. And it's amazing how little I have to say if I can't talk about my faith. My faith impacts everything from the book I'm reading, the friends I have, the activities that I give my time to, prayer, etc. It's almost surreal trying to find a "safe" topic of conversation that is void of religious overtones. |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 252
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 10:09 am: | |
I can sure identify with that Melissa!
You did a really good job of describing how communication works (or rather doesn't) in relationships between at least some SDAs and their significant others.
Mary |
Leigh
Registered user
Username: Leigh
Post Number: 37
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 10:33 am: | |
Raven, you mentioned that there's never closure when you have interaction with family and friends who are still sda. So true. At times I'm not sure what to say for fear of them freaking out (you did what last Saturday!? ) or an arguement starting.
Melissa, it is so hard for an Adventist to comprehend that the Lord would lead anyone anywhere except to the Adventist Church.
I remember telling a family member that the Lord led me out of Adventism and that now I have a deeper relationship with Jesus. This person laughed and in a mean spirited way said "I doubt that."
I can relate to what you said:
"My faith impacts everything from the book I'm reading, the friends I have, the activities that I give my time to, prayer, etc. It's almost surreal trying to find a "safe" topic of conversation that is void of religious overtones." |
Esther
Registered user
Username: Esther
Post Number: 246
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 10:47 am: | |
I can identify also...
The family is always either ignoring any religious expression because now that I've left the church I obviously don't have any connections with God.
or spending long hourse composing letters and/or clipping great "tidbits" from the early Adventist pioneers to send to me to convict me of my rebellion against God's laws and my accountability for allowing myself to be misled by polluted springs (this in reference to my use of a quote from Canright) and then leading my husband and a close friend down the path to destruction (my husband finds this extremly offensive as it implies he had no choice in this decision himself).
Though I count it all nothing on account of Christ, and I have dealth with, and feel no animosity towards my SDA family and friends...I now know that it's smarter to keep my mouth shut, and my spiritual blessings to myself while in their company. And i do agree with Colleen and others who've expressed that Adventism isn't founded on truth. Though there are those who are committed and seek truth in the denomination, the organization is not of the light. |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 253
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 11:57 am: | |
In regard to Canright, I admit I haven't read much he wrote, but I did find a letter written by EGW to be exemplary of her attempts at rationalizing her lack of following her own counsel.
The letter is long, but she starts discussing the 'grave charges' Canright had written to her husband in 15MR 245.3 (I looked it up on the White Estate's searchable database) and goes on to 15MR 248.4
She seems to go back and forth, quibbling over definitions, assuring one thing at one moment and stating almost the exact opposite in the next.
I'd be interested to see what Canright actually wrote in that letter to her husband. Were he and his wife actually the tempters they were made out to be?
Here are a few tidbits. Feel free to go to the actual letter for context!
"In regard to our diet, we have not placed butter on our table for ourselves for years, until we came to the Rocky Mountains. We felt that a little butter, in the absence of vegetables and fruit, was less detrimental to health than the use of much salt or sugar, sweet cake, and knickknacks. We do not use it now, and have not for many weeks." {15MR 245.3}
Hmm. No butter for years. Oh we used it in the Rockies recently, but no butter for a mane WEEKS now!
"In regard to our using spice, I plead not guilty. We have not had spice in our house for ten years, except a little ginger, which we have always used to some extent." {15MR 246.1}
We don't use spice, unless you define ginger at a spice? So who difines what a spice is?
"I have not had, to my knowledge, a particle of pepper in the house for ten years. When Lucinda went up to Mr. Walling's mills, I said to her, "Get me a little pinch of pepper, and I will try to eat some beans." I thought the pepper would perhaps prevent them from causing me to have the colic. But I think so little of what I eat, it never entered my mind that there was any pepper. So much for pepper." 15MR 246.3
???????? So which way was it?
"In regard to corsets, there is nothing in my use of corsets contrary to what I have ever spoken or written against. I do not practice wearing them except when bloated with dropsy, to press down my abdomen and give me a chance to breathe." {15MR 247.1}
So if you had a medical reason you could wear corsets?
Sounds like the arguement I've heard about coffee from SDA friends - "Coffee? Coffee! That's one of the things we're not supposed to drink." Then later, or maybe not so much later, "You have a migraine? Drink some coffee. It always helps mine!"
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Esther
Registered user
Username: Esther
Post Number: 247
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 1:05 pm: | |
Interesting letter! Canright also wrote a book in which he exposes many of his struggles with Adventism. He was on the forefront with the Pioneers for many years, left several times, came back several times, and then finally made a clean break. As I've recently learned, he wrote prolifically and was published in things like the Review and Herald almost as much as Ellen. But then, he also was at the forefront of championing the gospel for all who left in the early days.
All in all, it's obvious his break with the church came painfully for him, but that in his last days he lived in the glory of the gospel. Now, if only my co-correspondent would see it that way |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 255
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 1:12 pm: | |
Well, if you accept EGW and believe what she says about him (I haven't yet substantiated or debunked her take on him) it seems to me it would be almost impossible to see him in a good light.
I am looking forward to reading more about (and by) him.
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Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 787
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 1:43 pm: | |
Esther, you are right about Canright's last days, but of course The SDA smear and slander machine ginned up stories about Canright giving up his Christian faith, and admitting on his deathbed that he had given up the truth. These slanderous charges have been totally debunked. Dr. Walter Martin actually contacted Canright's daughter, who swore an affidavit that these charges were untrue.
Stan |
Alnadean
Registered user
Username: Alnadean
Post Number: 5
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 8:51 pm: | |
Hi all:
I have to comment on what Bill said about not knowing that adventists believe that they are the only true church and that everyone else must come out of their churches - to be saved; so they do place quite an emphasis (an understatement) on 'rechurching the 'mischurched.
I must let you know 'in true adventist spirit' that you have never been a 'true adventist.'
Had I met you while I was there I might have rebuked you for not knowing the heart of our purpose on this earth.
You my friend are the anomaly.
Be very thankful.
I met my first non-adventist male recently, and since its been about a month since my epiphany regarding the adventist church, it felt great to not have to say 'I'm sorry I can't really talk to you for fear you might really get to like me and I could never date you (notice that I was not really worried for falling for anyone because I was definitely locked up in my beliefs)- Anyways as I shared a little about where I was spiritually I realized that he could not identify with it at all. This i swhere I wish I were like Bill because I realize how truly messed up I really am and how ill equipped the rest of the world is to understand me. He actually said 'I have visited the sda church, I think they are just another church'
Where do I begin- I knew I couldn't because I did not want to seem fanatical and yet did not want to make light of it.
So essentially the freedom I thought I had is now actually compounded. The world is no more my oyster- its a mess is what it is.
Definitely don't want to date an adventist-well I didn't want them when I was there because they just weren't spiritual enough and as for the rest of the christian world they have their own beliefs- well what can I say I need therapy!
Don't know if anyone here can identify with me
I am right back where I started. Its a good thing I had made peace with that a long time ago. Its just the irony!!! |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 256
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 9:07 pm: | |
Recognising your need is partway to fixing it!
Keep your chin up! As you learn to walk with God alone, friends will come along that you never expected.
I'm learning that from experience!
Mary |
Catalyst
Registered user
Username: Catalyst
Post Number: 58
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 9:16 pm: | |
Melissa - (I have not read all the other responses yet) - yes - I have SDA family - most of my family is SDA - I am actually considered a good Christian - no there is no one that has scolded me.
The difficulty that I have had is that when I went to other SDA churches outside of our state there was only older generation and I could not sit through the dumb sermons that I disagreed with - but I had convinced myself that the church was changing (witness the church that I attended). The problem is that the church got a new pastor and until that time I had never heard the things that you are saying - this pastor ushered in a whole new feeling in the church of negativity. He said things that were un-Christian in my book. So I realized that maybe - I WAS the anomaly. <grin>
Alnadean: In our church there was a few year ago the joke about St peter showing someone around in heaven and saying here are the southern baptist group, and the catholic group, and the (fill in the blank here). And then he says SHHHH.... be VERY quiet - over this hill are the Adventists and they think that they are the only ones here.
Well - that joke was told in our church from the pulpit to point out that this was not true. We HAD a person (later certified mentally unstable) that went to a Baptist church parking lot on Wednesday night and put fliers for our church on THEIR parishioners windshields.
Our pastor met with the other Pastor and things got back to normal - we assured them that we were NOT proselytizing but actually working for NON-Christians. This was brought up at church board and everyone in attendance agreed that we were looking for the "unchurched" and not those that had a relationship with Jesus already. So - you see - I came by my views honestly - whether or not they are indicative of the entire church I cannot say - only that where I was it was not the prevailing attitude until this new pastor.
What did amaze me was that when my wife and I tried to start another church we had LOTS of the people that we went to church with that wanted to start it with us. They had great talk about starting a non-denominational church - that was not associated with the SDA church (since most of them gave to the local church and NOT the hierarchy this did not surprise us). However, when the local officials of the conference came and looked us in the eye and said that we would be disfellowshipped (did not bother my wife and I) almost to a person all of the other people backed down. Amazing how removal of membership from the SDA church was equated with salvation. . . Never realized that myself. Many of the group were fearful of reprisals at work (hospital nearby etc.)
Well - I have rambled on enough...
Bill |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 544
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 1:38 pm: | |
Alnadean,
Your SDA background will be used by God! Trust me, I speak from experience. Because of our background, I firmly believe we have a desire and an appreciation for God's grace that is stronger than most Christians. Hang in there. The man you meet someday will be better than the "cream of the crop" BECAUSE of your SDA background - it's all part of God's redeeming grace (Joel 2:25). I want you to be sure and tell us when that day comes. Because you are standing firm for Jesus, He will not leave you or forsake you. Mr. Perfect, who puts Jesus first, is looking for someone like you!!
You didn't ask...but...here is my old married lady advice...find a strong, Biblically based church that has small groups. Get involved in bringing Jesus clearer and closer both in a group setting and more importantly to you personally. Make Jesus your "husband". Remember, you are His bride (no where in Scripture are we ever refered to as His wife!). Revel in the relationship. Let Him worry about Mr. Perfect. He'll do a better job than you can!
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Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2552
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 1:40 pm: | |
Bill, did you attend Adventist schools? And maybe you've mentioned this before, but I don't remember--were you an Adventist from birth?
I believe that many people converted into the church don't really know the small print on the bottom line--at least not for a few years. I also know that there are many Adventist churches around N America that are trying to become evangelical and lose the cultic aspects of Adventism. The problem is that subliminally they are still bound to Adventism . Those churches still worship on Sabbath, and they can't even expain why they CAN'T meet on Sunday. They still hold to some sort of "Great Controversy" framework for explaining the world and salvation. They still honor Ellen as historically important even if they no longer see her as a prophet. Etc.
These churches can never be truly mainstream Christian unless they squarely face their Adventist roots and presuppositions and leave those behind. That Adventist heritage colors every single doctrine and belief, even if the individual Adventist wants to "get past" all that historic "stuff". Adventism defines its members in ways of which many of them are not conscious. It's only as one walks toward Jesus alone and leaves behind the framework of the church that the contrast between the spirit of Adventism and the Spirit of Christ becomes clear.
God is faithful, though--he continues to bring us to Himself, and when anyhone desires to know the truth, God reveals it.
Colleen |
Catalyst
Registered user
Username: Catalyst
Post Number: 69
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 1:45 pm: | |
Adventist from birth yes -
Adventist schools through Academy - then College and graduate school were non-adventist.
Bill |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 545
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 1:46 pm: | |
Andadean,
I forgot to mention THE PERFECT Bible study for you..."Breaking Free" by Beth Moore. I would be happy to share more about it with you and why I think you would benefit from it. Colleen knows my email address. Email her and in her great kindness she will send your address to me (as always, Colleen, thank you!). |
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