| Author |
Message |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1031
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 8:34 am: |     |
That's interesting, Julie. I really haven't heard of that. Perhaps it is a "norm" thing, as I was raised with the idea of eternal hell. So, it is the non-eternal hell that is "strange" to me. I still find it hard to understand why someone would reject salvation and God because of hell. Not remembering your situation at the moment, do you think your husband would accept Christ if there were no hell? That's all I mean by excuses. That there are no circumstances they would accept Christ, and hell is the one that gets the mention. Just 'cuz I haven't heard of it, doesn't make it less real. I was not intending to offend....
As Chris mentioned in one of his posts, it's hard to express your thoughts in two dimensional words in a way that doesn't sound harsh. Discussion and debate is great, but demeaning and degrading becomes pointless. I'd like to avoid the latter myself. |
Wooliee
Registered user
Username: Wooliee
Post Number: 41
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 6:59 pm: | |
Melissa,
I guess what I was trying to say with my husband, is that he grew up with a pulpit pounding preacher type of stern view of God. There were more contributing factors than hell alone, and I can see why you are confused! I see your point better now, and I wasn't making much sense. Sorry about that. I don't consider you to be offensive. I always enjoy reading your perspective on things!
Julie
P.S. My husband knows and loves Jesus now. God is amazing! |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1032
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 10:43 am: | |
I'm glad your husband is a believer. It can be a trial when not. We've got so many new people, I can't keep all the situations straight! I appreciate the clarification, and the chance to clarify! Glad there's no ruffled feathers, too.  |
Catalyst
Registered user
Username: Catalyst
Post Number: 25
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 8:02 am: | |
One more question - still working on this -
If there are people in hell now (obviously that is true since Jesus preached to them - right?) then they must have done something wrong - correct?
If doing something wrong makes you go to hell right now when you die, why is it that Satan is free and not currently in hell?
Bill
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Brian3
Registered user
Username: Brian3
Post Number: 9
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 8:46 am: | |
My first logical response would be that Satan is not dead, yet. |
Catalyst
Registered user
Username: Catalyst
Post Number: 26
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 9:20 am: | |
Thanks Brian - it is Hell that is going to make him dead then? Or will he ever die - since he burns forever? |
Brian3
Registered user
Username: Brian3
Post Number: 11
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 9:29 am: | |
I don't know that I have any answer. I seem to recall that there is a "special" place (lake of fire?) reserved for Satan and his angels. I think Hell is only spoken of in the context of human beings, not angels. If angelic beings are endowed with immortality could they die? |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 951
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 11:01 am: | |
Well, Satan is not a physical being (despite EGW's claims to the contrary!)--he is a spirit being. Therefore you can't really compare his situation with humans experiencing physical death.
Bill, if what you're thinking is that people shouldn't have to be punished longer than Satan, the truth is that they aren't. Since the punishment is eternal, then mathematically it's not any longer for those who started being punished years before others started being punished.
But actually the Bible describes the current "hell" (hades) as merely a temporary waiting place for the wicked until the day of judgement. The real "sentence" is the eternal lake of fire. Sort of like how criminals wait in jail until their trial--but that jail time isn't their "sentence." The Bible says that people and some fallen angels are in that holding place. Why isn't Satan? Because that's not God's will, obviously.
There are several Greek words that are translated "hell" in English. Hades is the temporary waiting place that I mentioned above. Gehenna is the eternal lake of fire where both fallen angels (including Satan) and unsaved humans will experience eternal death--eternal separation from God.
Jeremy
(Message edited by Jeremy on September 06, 2005) |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 255
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 1:34 pm: | |
Jeremy, just curious . . . does this mean that they get 1/2 baked in the temporary wating place before the final judgement when He returns?
Richard
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2504
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 4:01 pm: | |
Just as the righteous dead go to be with Christ after they are "uclothed" by death (see 2 Corinthians 5) and are with Him until the resurrection when God brings them back with Jesus (1 Thess. 4:14) for the bodily resurrection, so the wicked dead go to "Hades" where they await their final judgment.
Revelation 20:13 says that death and Hades give up the dead in them at the final judgment when they will be judged. Those whose names are not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire.
It seems that the Bible shows that the spirits of humans go either into the presence of Jesus (the righteous) or somewhere away from Him (the wicked) at the time of death. At their resurrections, the righteous will be given glorified bodies and will be forever with the Lord, and the wicked will also be given bodies and will be given over to the lake of fire.
It is interesting to note that both the righteous and the wicked are resurrected with bodies before experiencing their eternal destiny. Clearly, however, the "essence" of the dead is either with the Lord or not with the Lord from the time of death to the time of resurrection. Until their respective resurrections, neither the righteous nor the wicked are freely roaming physical bodies, although the Bible shows them to be aware of their positions with or away from God. They are spirits awaiting their resurrections.
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1843
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 6:51 pm: | |
Richard,
I am LOL with your statement of the wicked dead being "half baked". It really struck my funny bone.
Diana |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 1043
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 9:13 pm: | |
Okay, a couple of weeks ago, I was reading and thought about this question. But I didn't want to look stupid so I refrained from asking. But since this topic is still active, if I could kindly let my ignorance hang out here, I'll see if I can put it to words....
I was reading 1 Corin 15 and came across this verse and it struck me with a question (fascinating how they reach out and grab you that way...) 42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body." It goes on to talk about the last trumpet and the dead being raised imperishable. I've always presumed that this is speaking about the bodies of Christians, but what if it's just speaking in general there about raised bodies? Is there a difference in the body that the Christian is raise with and that of a non-Christian defined in scripture? Or is it safe to presume that all bodies that are resurrected, regardless of final destination, are raised imperishable? It's hard to read the text of chapter 15 and not think it is specifically addressing the Christian, but could these statements regarding the body be more general and talking about all? Anyone "know" anything definitive about that garbled pondering? Certainly those who think scripture teaches people cease would say that the resurrected bodies between the saved and unsaved would have to be different because you can't have an imperishable body perish, those on the reverse side would say the other. But is there something in scripture that could help untangle that question regardless of doctrinal predispositions? Or is this one of those eternally silent areas?
My apologies if it's really obvious and I've just missed it. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2505
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 06, 2005 - 10:14 pm: | |
Melissa, if you missed it, I missed it to. I've pondered the same question. I'm not aware of any text that differentiates between the nature of the wicked or the righteous ones' bodies.
I do know that Paul talks about us being glorified and our bodies redeemed, and I'm sure neither of those categories would apply to the wicked resurrected. But what I've found myself contemplating is that there is something significant about the dead being RAISED for destruction. Perhaps they do have eternal bodies, but they're destined for hell?
Actually, I'm speculating. I'm not aware of any texts that clarify this issue completely. Does anyone know something Melissa and I haven't noticed re: this?
Colleen |
Helovesme2
Registered user
Username: Helovesme2
Post Number: 231
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 12:23 am: | |
I know that what ever happens to the wicked I want to miss it!
Mary |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2529
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 10:19 am: | |
Mary, that is so succinct! Thanks!!
Colleen |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 259
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 3:25 pm: | |
Mary, "right on", whatever happens, eternal or not I want to avoid. I rejoice in my relationship with my Lord and Savior and want nothing to come between us.
Richard |
Violet
Registered user
Username: Violet
Post Number: 251
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 9:51 am: | |
What do you think of the place that Korah went to when the ground swallowed him up in Numbers 16? |
