| Author |
Message |
Taybie
Registered user
Username: Taybie
Post Number: 26
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 1:33 pm: |     |
Hi everyone! I hope this little blurb of mine finds you well and enjoying our Father's peace. I was wondering if anyone is going thru a phase like the one I am currently walking in. Does anyone ever feel sorry for Adventists? I mean, sorry like sorrowful?
My former college roommate and I used to be great friends...until I walked away from SDAism. She claims it was me that withdrew from our friendship, and though I could not disagree, I still have felt a great gap between the two of us since my baptism in September of last year. She once asked me what I believed, (when I was still trying to figure it all out myself) and I gave a blurred, jumbled answer, which only pushed the wedge deeper between us. Part of me wants to show her all that I have found, (now that I can actually verbalize it all) and yet, I still feel the need to hold back.
Though I have reached out, i feel really alone in this thing. Don't get me wrong, I am HAPPY about the choice I made to live in Jesus, but I still feel this hurt for those I love that are still "bound".
Am I alone in this feeling?
I am beginning to think I am totally nontrusting of ANY persons and I don't want to be like that. The Lord and I have had our conversations about this whole subject, and yet I want to send copies of Proclamation to everyone I know. Would that be intrusion? |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1721
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 7:23 pm: | |
Taybie,
This is when you pray and pray and pray and pray some more. Then, unless God definitely lets you know what you should say, you keep your mouth shut and just love your family and friends. You show your love just by being you, doing things for them when they need it and it is all done because you love them and not trying to win them to Christ. When the time is right, God will do something, like what He did with my oldest sister.
Yes, I feel so sad for my family that are still bound by the bonds of the SDA church, but I have to leave them in God's hands. They are so much more capable than mine are. Just be happy in Christ and love and pray for your family and friends and leave the rest to God. He has not forgotten them and knows best how to work with them.
He is so awesome.
Diana |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2287
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 9:00 pm: | |
Taybie, you are completely normal in your experience. The process of leaving and of finding where all one's relationships will land takes some time, and the likelihood is that most of your SDA relationships will alter. This is a natural result of the cultic nature of the church--and, I believe, one of the clearest evidences that is IS cultic.
Diana is right: pray and pray and pray. God is dealing with your friends, too. He will also bring you into fellowship with other believers that will nourish your heart.
If your friends show any interest, Proclamation might be a good thing. Let God direct you!
Colleen |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 207
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 - 11:36 pm: | |
Diane,
Amen,
Amen,
and Amen.
Richard |
Jan
Registered user
Username: Jan
Post Number: 36
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 8:34 am: | |
I hear what you all are saying, but still this thought runs through my head constantly:
I wish someone would have sat me down earlier and told me straight out about the New Covenant message. Not sent me magazines, but showed me in the Bible. I might have fought it, but at least they would have tried! If a friend has a disease and I know a cure, don't I want to tell them? Or should I just smile--in all my health--and pray they will find out?
I see Paul as being very bold. But, then, not everyone has the gift of evangelism! So help me sort this out: Wait--or warn? Be cautious--or be courageous? I know so many people who need to know what I now know. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2291
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 10:04 am: | |
Jan, you make a good point. A good friend of mine recently made a similar comment to me. She said that she wishes someone had explained the new covenant and Biblical truth to her long ago.
I think that we are asked to share this good news with those who need to hear it. If someone really doesn't want to listen, that's one thing; if someone needs to hear it, however, and is willing to sit and listen, I do believe we have an obligation to share.
After sharing, if they don't want to talk about it anymore, we can let the Holy Spirit water the seeds. Many people, though, do have questions later.
I'm not sure there's a formula to follow; I do agree, Jan--we do have the great privilege of being able to share something so life changing that it is the difference between life and death.
Actually, I believe that when we begin to "see" and start leaving Adventism behind, we have a rare and unique opportunity to do this kind of sharing because the people we know will wonder why we are making these changes.
We do have an obligation to share the "cure". We just need to be aware when someone really doesn't want to hear it! The Holy Spirit really does inform us when we're in conversation with people when to go ahead and when to be more cautious. We can trust His leading and timing.
Colleen |
Windmotion
Registered user
Username: Windmotion
Post Number: 167
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 11:24 am: | |
Colleen, I think that would work if the adventist is a strong Christian to begin with. But if the adventist only has a vague idea of what they believe in the first place, then they will disagree with you based on emotion while you are trying to explain facts. Or they will lead you to the facts they do know and try to get you to disagree with those.
Like you said, you have to be very sensitive to the situation. Even when they say they are "willing" they may not be!
Peacefully,
Hannah |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 209
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 1:44 pm: | |
One of the things that makes a big difference is the attitude of the person talking.
Is the approach one of your wrong and let me correct you or one of I love you and I want to share how God is leading me. Acknowledging that you don't have all the answers but God is working with you yet.
I know God is working with me on a daily and moment by moment basis and I can only make one promise to God. "Lord I'm your servant and I ask that you unfold your will in my life." "Oh yes Lord if it's ok with you please be gentle.  "
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com
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Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 962
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 2:39 pm: | |
Maybe a "loving" approach works for some, but with every loving effort I made, stupidly thinking the person just "didn't know" and would care if they knew, they saw it all as me being deceived ... and said I was following an evil spirit as I tried to frame up the amount of prayer I had put into my study and was sure this was the Spirit leading me...the response came back "what spirit?" Maybe for some attitude matters, but for those I've tried to talk to (albeit, few) all the compassion I could muster (and I had more then than I do now) was met with insult and anger the likes of which I never could have imagined. I can only liken it to a friend who tried to share with her sister that she saw her husband in a compromising situation with another woman. My friend told her out of love and care for her sister, knowing she would want to know, but her sister couldn't hear it, and talked bad to the rest of the family about my friend, long after the husband left the sister for his affair with the other woman.
I've shared my relationship with Christ with pagans and gotten a more respectful response than when I tried to share my relationship to an SDA. If the Holy Spirit has not prepared the heart, I really don't think there is a word we can say that will have an impact no matter how loving we approach the subject. The only one I've ever seen with the attitude of "your wrong and let me correct you" has been from the SDA side. Everytime I've ever shared, I've always said I don't know everything. But the SDA side has always said their religion had the blueprints and they had it all figured out. Once I was asked how I could view a certain verse a certain way, so I got out 4 or 5 version of the Bible, my greek dictionary and started studying the context of the verse and the verse and the definitions of the word and put together a very detailed, Bible only explanation of how I viewed his question. His only response was I didn't study it right, or hard enough because I didn't come up with his answer. When I've done the same (asked him how he came to a conclusion regarding a verse), he has never sat down with a Bible to explain his answer...just attacked my intelligence for being stupid enough to ask the question to begin with. So, I don't think the "problem" always lies at the "formers" feet for being "correct", though that may be some time.
I'm with you, Jan. I wish someone had told me years ago... but they didn't. And I think the anger I have sprout up occasionally is just a continual part of the grief process of moving on. The SDAs I know feel as sorry for me for not "accepting the truth" as I feel concern for them that they don't "know the gospel".
It reminds me of the very first former I talked to and asked what scripture helped her see...and she said I wouldn't like her answer... it wasn't one verse, it was the Holy Spirit. She was right, i didn't like the answer. I was sure that the word of God could do the work of God...in my time table. Now, I understand that the most thorough scripture analysis, study, honest heart-felt, loving sharing will not sway someone who doesn't want to hear. That's hard to accept. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2292
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 4:51 pm: | |
Yes, Melissa, your story is so similar to what I've experienced. I've shared when asked; otherwise, I haven't, generally speaking. With family, though, I have shared--some have accepted it with good will, some appeared to at first and then closed off. If you're really close to someone, I think it's almost impossible not to share or it becomes the BIG SECRET between you that no one will address.
With friends, my sharing has depended upon their openness. I guess I resonated with your sentence, Melissa, "I don't think the 'problem' always lies at the 'formers' feet for being 'correct', though that may be some time."
It has always been the Adventists (or the marginal Christians) who have shut me off rather than I them. And I do respect their desire not to talk.
I've found that knowing Jesus really IS a great dividing point. Have you experienced this, also? Knowing Him means that His Spirit opens up the Bible, opens up my hidden places that I need to surrender, exposes reality and truth in my life and in Scriptureóand that "knowing" is not a "maybe". When the Holy Spirit convicts us and teaches us, the result is not tentative. Adventists, for the most part (and non-Christians in general) don't like our confidence and certainty about Jesus and salvation and the new covenant. They would feel much more comfortable with us if we were tentative.
I've taken such encouragement from Paul who never moderated the gospel. He spoke truthfully and Scripturally. He didn't argue, but he didn't defer to to untruth or flatter people with his own tentativeness. He was, of course, sensitive to his audienceóI've always thought his Mars Hill sermon about the unknown God was brilliantóbut he was not tentative about knowing what truth was.
In writing to believers who were being seduced by heresy, he was anything but subtle. Galatians and Colossians are "out there" with calling a spade, a spade, so to speak. He was loving; he acknowledged his brothers in Christ as brothers; he called them to live up to the gospel they first accepted. But he was not subtle about declaring heresy to be deadly.
On the other hand, when people did not want to hear the gospel, as when Jesus sent out the disciples into the cities of Judah, he told them to leave and to shake the dust from their feet. He also told them not to cast pearls before swine--harsh language.
In other words, I see our calling is to be bold and truthful, but if people don't want to hear, don't be a nuisance and keep talking!
Colleen |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 573
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 7:53 pm: | |
Dear FAF Friends,
I have just now returned from a trip to Anaheim to take my grand-nephew to Disneyland (he's 8). We had a wonderful time, thank you, and I have returned home completely spent.
I'm writing here because I have a dear friend who lives in Riverside. She is a teacher at a SDA school in Orange, I believe it is. We were roommates in academy, and like all friendships from that period of time seem to suffer, we lost contact with each other from time-to-time. We found each other again about three years ago when a reunion was being planned, and I've done my best to keep the contact going since then. My almost former husband wanted to introduce my g-nephew to Disneyland all by himself for a day, so I took off in a different direction and went to Riverside to see my friend. She graciously provided a bed for my daughter and me for the night and we got the chance to visit.
She's a lovely person, always has been. Her father was a missionary to the Orient (she was born in India) and upon returning to the US he bacame a conference official in the '60's. She, herself has worked for the SDA church all of her working life as a grade-school teacher. She is now 59, and holding on for dear life to finish out so that she can get her 30 years in and qualify for retirement.
In the course of our discussion a couple of nights ago she mentioned that she has noticed that sincerity can come from people who have not been exposed to EGW. One of her favorite quotes from EGW is that at the end of time there will be but two groups of people -- those who trust and have faith in Jesus, and those who do not. Then she mentioned that while searching for videos one time she had found a video produced by the people who produced the "Left Behind" series. She was very impressed by their sincerity and what looked like a scholarly approach to scripture.
Please pray that I will know what to say and when to say it--if it is I who is supposed to be the one who says anything at all. She is the only remaining vegetarian teacher in her whole school, and that is only one of the issues where she is the only one still adhering to the classical SDA behaviors. She owns a house that is not in the same community that the school is located in so she can be near her daughter and grandchildren, and she is very lonely for friends of her own there, or at least that is the feeling I get while talking to her. She is a dear person, and seems open to truth, but is heavily basted in SDAism, both with regard to family and education, and then being dependant upon upon them for her livelihood. She has also been heavily marinated in EGW and will more likely than not quote her rather than scripture. She see's me as being sincere if pitieable, and has asked that I come back to see her again for a visit. I think she might be open to discussions so I ask for your prayers that I will recognize the opportunity if one comes, and that I will speak with courage.
Belva |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 211
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 8:43 pm: | |
Melissa, I enjoyed your comments and believe it or not I can understand many of your feelings. When I say do it in a loving way I don't mean it can't be with passion and emotion and conviction. I hope it would be.
You said, "Now, I understand that the most thorough scripture analysis, study, honest heart-felt, loving sharing will not sway someone who doesn't want to hear. That's hard to accept."
Yes it is very hard to accept. BUT we must surrender everyone we speak with to the convicting work of the Holy Spirit. I don't believe any words will win someone to the gospel, except the Holy Spirit is working on a persons heart.
May God bless you and your heart for those you want to share the Gospel with.
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com
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Karenjw
Registered user
Username: Karenjw
Post Number: 7
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 11:39 am: | |
Hello everyone
Been a while since I posted. I'm still wandering around in a daze since my eyes started opening to the SDA errors.(I don't make changes easily) I have been reading about that "shut door" belief. Do you think this is why 99% of SDAs will walk by an ex SDA without even seeing her/him? Do they still believe this? And looking back at myself, I did the same thing to ex SDAs. According to EG White the shut door theory was done away with but still there is a shunning of us ex SDAs. Another thing I realized in my treck to being an ex SDA is, all my studies about EGW were what SDAs gave me to study! So I was comparing what they said to what they said and ignorantly believed I got the whole truth.
Well I'm just venting here. Still feel so sad and frustrated and thrown away. Read an SDA magazine about some SDAs who "fell away" and they quoted scripture about people who turned away from Jesus. Felt sad and rejected again. Honestly I'll be glad when I can feel sorry for them instead of myself.
Love you all! Thanks for your support and prayers.
-karen- |
Melissa
Registered user
Username: Melissa
Post Number: 965
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 1:55 pm: | |
Belva, I remember B had that same surprised response when he came to a Bible study at my church very early on and discovered we really did use the Bible. I wasn't sure what he expected to find, but it certainly wasn't something positive from his reaction. I think he thought he was going to be able to walk out and poke all kinds of holes in the discussion, but he couldn't. He was surprised to find people who really did have a genuine relationship with Christ, sincerely studying the Bible alone. For him, however, it was never enough to make him want a relationship with them.
I will pray for your friend, and your wisdom. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2297
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 5:19 pm: | |
Belva and Karen, I'm praying for you and for your friend, Belva. Karen, I identify with your feelings. I don't know that the shunning is related to the old "shut door" theory--but I do think it's related to the spirit or attitude behind the theory.
Adventism grew out of the Great Disappointment and became a way to save face for their embracing gross misinterpretation of Scripture. Ever since then, people who question or leave are accused of "falling away" or "apostasy". I'm convinced that at some visceral level, those of us who leave for the sake of the gospel shine the light on their deception. It makes them very uncomfortable when we discover the gospel and Jesus through Scripture, when their own "Bible foundation" doesn't yield freedom in Christ.
I remember feeling personally affronted when some friends of ours left before we had come to understand. That sense of its being "personal" when someone leaves should be a red flag. Instead, that feeling of exposure and rejection is turned back onto the one leaving.
Jesus will continue to give you grace to stand in peace and confidence. Remember to put on the armor of God every day! (Ephesians 6:10-18)
Colleen |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1724
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 5:50 pm: | |
Belva and Karen,
I have put you two in my prayer list and your friend also, Belva.
I think the shunning is more about our leaving the SDA church rather than the shut door theory. For the simple reason, I had forgotten about that theory and I am sure many SDAs are unaware of it. But our leaving fulfills what EGW said would happen in the "last days". We have given up a day and have found a relationship with Jesus which is much better. The SDAs can't seem to understand that because of their immersion in EGW, even if they do not read her books. So we continue to ask God to send the Holy Spirit to teach them. God will do that, in His time and not ours. He is truly awesome.
Diana |
Taybie
Registered user
Username: Taybie
Post Number: 27
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 9:26 am: | |
****Karen****
Hello. Please know that we all have had on/still have on your shoes and really know where you are coming from. This was the site that the Lord led me to, that I might gain stregnth and encouragement when I thought there was not any to be found.
I too felt VERY rejected and sorry for myself. I beat myself for over a year for the non truths I accepted and walked in. I was VERY angry with God - for His method of showing me the way to His heart, and I felt useless. I was not confusd, but just, well...dry.
Please continue to come out to this site. Even if you do not post for a while, still visit. The people here are my friends...my brothers and sisters in the struggle to stand alone for Jesus. I praise God that you are being led and taught, and most of all, that you are being freed!
Father, I lift Karen and all of your children that are walking this part of the journey that is familiar to every Christian. I pray for them as they take a personal stand for You and against everything that are imitations and counterfeits. Bless them as they seek Your face and bless them as they confront the untruths they have lived with for so long. Father I pray that You wash over the hurts and tears with Your love and peace. I speak peace unto the readers of these words. I rejoice that You have saved their lives and will continue to bless them with right thinking and right living thru Your Word and Your precious Holy Spirit. I ask these things in the beloved name of Jesus Christ, our Saviour, Amen. |
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