| Author | Message | ||
| Catalyst Registered user Username: Catalyst Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2005 |
Where I am at: 1. I am a Sabbatarian - 2. I am a vegetarian - just because I have never eaten meat and it does not appeal to me - - 3. I believe in the SDA version of state of the dead - it makes sense to me but - honestly it does not matter to me. 4. I do not believe in EGW - 5. I hold no animosity toward SDA's specifically - I feel that they really have missed the target corporately. 6. I am a recovering legalist. 7. I love Jesus and nothing would disappoint me more than to get to heaven and find that my family was not there and a whole bunch of my friends. 8. I would not spend 40 years (a short time) here on this earth with a mean vindictive arbitrary woman - why on earth would I want to spend eternity with an all powerful, omnipotent, all seeing mean vindictive arbitrary God? My view of God/Jesus is that they are the opposite of what we make of them frequently - To be honest - it has taken me a couple of years to get to the point where I realize that Club Adventist is toxic to me - but like squashing a bug - it is yet fascinating and I have to "watch". I am definitely a "cultural Adventist" - I am so much so that I will have great difficulty in becoming anything else. Well - now - do I think that it will do me good to join a bunch of other recovering SDA? <grin> - possibly - maybe not - maybe they would not want me either <grin>. My other worry is that I do not want to become a bitter, sour person whose only goal in life is to shoot at others - I really feel sorry for the places where SDA's have perverted the message/Gospel/Christ's love - but they end up with the poor image of God.... Well - enough introduction - oh - and you can call me Bill. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1623 Registered: 3-2004  |
Bill, Welcome to FAF. You will hear what adventism has done to us and how we escaped its grip. You will hear how we are getting to develop a relationship with Jesus. That is the most important relationship a person can have. Each of us has a different story and journey out of adventism. Join in on any of the discussions. Diana | ||
| Lindylou Registered user Username: Lindylou Post Number: 62 Registered: 1-2005 |
Hi Bill, Welcome to the forum. I haven't signed on here in a few weeks - but am glad I did today - to make your online acquaintance. Your introduction made me smile  I think that you will find this to be a safe place. I have yet to hear anyone on this forum pressuring anyone else to change the way they are. It can be a good place to vent and a great place to get needed encouragement as you continue in your spiritual journey. "The Lord has anointed Me to preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound." Isaiah 61:1 May you find true liberty in Him! lindylou | ||
| Catalyst Registered user Username: Catalyst Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2005 |
I have been reading for a while. I find the "vortex" that keeps me inside "adventism" to be strong - all my friends etc. We all like each other - then there is the idea of why is it necessary to leave - other than I disagree with what is said - does it really matter to me and my salvation? No - it is no salvific. so why bother leaving - I have been involved with a more liberal church for some time (adventist) and they got a new pastor. That was the final straw for me - no grace - salvation by works - roll eyes. But - where does one go to? There are things that I disagree with in Sunday churches as well - If you live in a LARGE metropolitan area then there are options - but there are none where I live. Bill | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 765 Registered: 10-2004  |
Bill, Welcome to the forum. We're glad you've joined us. You mentioned that there are things you disagree with in other churches. I see what you're saying, but isn't the Gospel the most important thing? In other words, it's important to at least find a church that teaches the essentials of the Christian faith, such as salvation by grace alone through faith alone, the truth about God and who Jesus is, and that believes in the Bible as God's Word and the sole authority for our lives. These things should take precedence over some of the other issues which are more minor. As the quote attributed to St. Augustine says, "In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity." Anyway, I'm sure God will guide you in your journey with Him, and His timing is always perfect. Just keep letting the Holy Spirit lead you in the study of His Word and in your daily life. God bless, Jeremy | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 516 Registered: 7-2004 |
No one here will tell you that you must remove yourself from your current church/friends. That becomes a matter of personal choice and should be between you and God. We will keep you in our prayers, however. My own experience was that once I realized that the SDA model--based on the EGW writings--was a house of cards, I had to go in search of another place to worship. The longer I've been away from SDAism, the harder it becomes for me to put myself inside of the SDA mindset. I've learned that Jesus loves me and has saved me, a completed action. There is nothing about me that deserves saving, but he chose to put his life on the line for me, for which I will be eternally grateful, and I find it easier to worship with a group of people who will acknowledge that salvation is a real, now kind of experience for the people of God. In SDA, I was taught that I could, and should never lay claim to salvation. That simply is not what scripture teaches. Belva | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 122 Registered: 2-2005 |
Howdy Bill, You're a great example of why this forum can be such a positive tool. We come here from all different places along the spectrum of spiritual growth and doctrinal beliefs, yet we are all striving for the same goals...to further the cause of Christ, to grow in Him, and to glorify Him to the best of our abilities. Welcome to forum! I can certainly identify with you, Bill. My wife and I are currently transitioning out of the SDA church, going to church on Saturday and on Sunday. Both of our families are firmly planted in Adventism and the roots run deep. On top of that, ALL of our closest friends are staunch Adventists and, with only one or two exceptions, the only friends our son has ever known are his friends through church. This definitely is NOT taking the "easy way" out as some Adventists might say, and I can empathize completely with any reluctance to leave the comfort zone. But in the end, our main reasons for leaving are two-fold: 1) To acknowledge Christ's rightful and true identity as our Savior who fully atoned for our sins as a perfect sacrifice in 30 AD rather than acknowledging Him as Example first as vindicator of God's perfect Law, and then as Savior; 2) To prevent our children from being conditioned to "major in the minors" and from being taught doctrines that are at odds with what we are trying to instill in them at home and that are, well, at odds with the Bible itself. We don't want them to have to constantly be reconciling the differences between the two and living in a state of "cognitive dissonance." We want them to know that they are saved and that they live securely under God's grace. To me it seems like living under grace is what gives the Christian joy and having joy is what gives you the ability to love your neighbor as yourself. This is just my experience. With that being said, I know several SDA friends and family who truly love God and I have a hard time seeing that they won't be saved, of course in the end it's not up to me. As Jeremy stated above, just keep listening to the Spirit and you won't be led astray. Grace to you and peace, Heretic (Message edited by Heretic on June 18, 2005) | ||
| Patriar Registered user Username: Patriar Post Number: 46 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hi Bill: I'm pretty new here too. I don't have much to add except to say that 3 years ago, I told my family I would NEVER give up the Sabbath even though I had discovered that EGW is a false prophetess. Now, after many hours of studying and praying and praying and studying some more...I am very happily out of the SDA church and no longer a Sabbatarian. (though still a vegetarian) Blessings to you! I will pray for you also. God is leading you...trust Him. Patria | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2149 Registered: 12-2003  |
Bill, welcome to the forum! We're really glad you're here. I understand your position; you have to have a clear direction from the Holy Spirit before you leave the church. Like Heretic, our kids were the catalyst that finally "pushed us over the edge". We looked at each other one day and asked, "How can we teach our boys to be honest and to have integrity if they don't see us acting on what they know we believe?" Leaving has been one of the best things that ever happened to our kids. BTW, have you read Dale Ratzlaff's books, especially Sabbath in Christ? If you haven't, I think you'd find it really insightful. At any rate, you've come to a safe place, and we're glad you're here. I'll also be praying for you and your family. Colleen | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 689 Registered: 7-2000 |
Bill, can I offer something to ponder? You said that you have no options for a church to attend where you are. But, how big is God? Does He know where you live? Did He know that you would arrive at this point in your life and need a church? God is passionately involved with the mission of His church (to evangelize the world). That passion of His extends to the area where you live. He also passionately loves you and we know from His word that He sits the lonely in families...that definitely includes spiritual families. God does not lead His child into the freedom of the gospel only to abandon them to live out their life alone, or chained by legalism. The Christian life is about relationship. Not just relationship with Him, but relationship with brothers and sisters in Christ. I know when we leave Adventism we all first feel alone. But God is big. We are NOT the only people in our area, any of us, who believe the truth. God most definitely has a safe place for you to worship where you are. And you, in fact, need fellow Christians around you who understand the freedom of the gospel to mentor you. The difference between being a part of a Christian church and being a part of the Adventist denomination is huge. The freedom and joy in the Lord are just incredible. I don't know where you are in your transition period. But when we first left the denomination we were convinced that there was nowhere to go. You know, it took us a long time to finally be willing to admit that our problem of "no where to go", was actually our arrogance in believing that, "WE have ALL the truth and they don't understand". What an incredibly small view of God we had to believe that "we" would be the only ones in our area whom had been taught truth by the Lord! Finally we had to let go of our exclusivist mindset (definitely learned in Adventism!). We had to reach a point of being willing to admit that maybe there was some stuff we were still wrong about, maybe some things we still had to learn, and maybe the truth was that "they"-non-SDA's were right and we were the ones who were still clinging to error. I think all of us here will tell you that we have shared the experience of learning from our new churches. As was said above. We have to learn to cling to the essential truths of Christianity and keep our minds open to listen, study, and learn about the minor stuff. So there's my questions for you to ponder in seeking God's will for your family during this transition time and in finding a church, "how big is God? And does He or does He not know exactly where you live?" | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1627 Registered: 3-2004 |
Bill, When I decided not to rejoin the SDA church through baptism, I started visiting other churches that met on Sunday. It felt strange at first, but I had learned that we rest in Jesus every day and not just one day a week. I did this for 4 months. I was also praying about where God wanted me to go. This was last year. During the week after Mother's Day last year God spoke to me and told me to go to the big church off 95, on Russell Road. So the following Sunday morning I drove to the church. I got there a few minutes late. I walked in and sat down and, praise God, I felt like I had come home. I have always liked large churches, because it is easy to get lost in the crowd, but I have not done that this time. I immediately signed up for there Starting Point class and their DiscoveryE class. The first teaches the essentials of Christianity and the second expands on the subject. I jumped in with both feet and have not regretted it. God has been so good to provide me with friends, who love God. So, God has a church prepared for you and your family. Just keep praying about it. Our God is truly an awesome God. Diana | ||
| Tdf Registered user Username: Tdf Post Number: 81 Registered: 11-2004 |
Bill, Welcome! I first posted on this site in November 2004. At that time, I was in exactly the same place that you've described (identical in every point). To be honest, I found reading posts on this site to be difficult at first. Some of what I read seemed too harsh and critical. I felt that certain doctrinal positions taken were too dogmatic. Let's just say that much has changed in my understanding of Scripture during the past eight months. If you're experiencing any of these emotions/reactions, I completely understand. The point that excites me most about your post is the sentence where you stated "I am a recovering legalist." I, for one, have no interest in convincing you to abandon the sabbath, vegetarianism, to develop bitterness toward SDAs, etc. Heck, I'm not even 100% convinced at this point regarding the state of the dead. My understanding of Scripture leads me to believe that there are two central beliefs that are first and foremost: salvation by faith alone and extending love to God and others. I would encourage you to ground yourself in these foundational teachings. Beyond that, you might want to study to answer the question, what is the new covenant, how is it different from the old covenant and what does it mean to me? There's no need to become bitter. Realizing that your culture is toxic involves some hurt, and some need for healing. Hopefully, though, you are gaining a sense that outside of that toxic culture is an understanding of a God who loves you immensely, who has been pursuing you since before you were born, who longs to have you by His side, who isn't interested in your perfection and who is only interested in YOU. There is peace and joy in understanding Christ's grace and this joy transcends any of the hurt that comes from realizing that Adventism is mortally flawed. When I am grounded in this, I am not bitter. Bill, I don't know how long you've been an SDA. What I do know is that the process of an SDA opening his eyes is a slow one. Take it at your own pace. Follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. He will not only show you truth, but He will give the strength to accept and to act on it. None of us who post on this site can tell you what is best for you to do. Each of our journeys has been unique. Yours will be too. Please know simply that God loves you, that we love you, that we long to partner with you through this journey and that our only desire is that you grow in a relationship with Jesus Christ! Your brother in Christ, tdf | ||
| Jwd Registered user Username: Jwd Post Number: 34 Registered: 4-2005 |
Flyinglady, That Russel Road you mentioned ~ was that in Alexandria, Virginia by any chance? Jess | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1632 Registered: 3-2004 |
Jwd, I know where the Russel Road in Alexandria, VA is as I lived in Alexandria for many years and attended the SDA church on Russell Road. That was the church that took my name off the church books for non attendance. Thank you God. The Russell Road I speak of is in Henderson, NV. What do you know of Russell Road in Alex, VA??? Diana | ||
| Marcell Registered user Username: Marcell Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2004 |
I have come to the place where I feel angry at the ENEMY - not ever at my dear SDA family. They are decieved just as I was. If it has flesh and blood - it's not the enemy!! If it has flesh and blood, it is someone for whom Jesus died and commanded me to love and ascribe unconditional, unsurpassable worth to. When I focus on that, I just want to spend my time lifting HIM up and loving on those who are still in bondage - it breaks my heart, and I can't feel bitter towards them at all. Marcell | ||
| Tisha Registered user Username: Tisha Post Number: 90 Registered: 3-2005 |
Well said, Marcell! -tisha | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1856 Registered: 11-2002 |
Welcome, Bill. In my area there are several other churches that hold Saturday servicesa. The Nazarene has a Saturday afternoon service. All the Catholic churches have Saturday masses and several Lutheran churches also hold a Saturday afternoon service. There are options of being able to attend church on Saturday and not having to attend the SDA. Some areas have the Seventh Day Baptist. All these churches teach way different on the dead that you believe but if you don't go to a lot of funerals you won't hear too much on that topic. Again, welcome. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 441 Registered: 3-2005 |
Welcome Bill to FAF. This is a great place to discuss issues. I was exactly where you were about 20 years ago, and remember what it was like. My theology has changed a whole bunch of times in those 20 years, but I find that the Holy Spirit is a great teacher. I just have a question about your point number 8 above. I wasn't sure what you meant by an "all powerful, omnipotent, mean vindictive God, and wonder if you could expand a little on what view of God makes you uncomfortable? Stan | ||
| Catalyst Registered user Username: Catalyst Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2005 |
What I hear when I go to church is how we are not good enough and must be better to come to God - I believe come as you are. I hear of an "works" God - that is/seems arbitrary or mean or vindictive - This is not my picture of God. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1635 Registered: 3-2004 |
Catalyst, Rom 3:10 says...There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; no one who seeks God. Rom 3: 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. And there will be a time when God displays His anger. Read Rom 2:5. I have read this before, but today it hit me in the head when I read it. There will come a day when God will be angry. So, as long I as keep on believing and developing my relationship with God, I do not worry about his anger. But as you say above, He is not a "works" God. Thank Jesus for that. He is awesome, Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2159 Registered: 12-2003 |
You're right, Diana. We do not come to God by becoming "Better". We can't BE better! We come to God when He draws us to Himself and softens our hearts to recognize the truth. You're also right that the day is coming when God will be angry. His justice and wrath against sin are parts of Himself, and if His attributes of grace and mercy are eternal, His attributes of wrath and justice must be eternal as well. He cannot divest Himself of Himself. The miracle is that He gave Himself to pay the price for the sins of an entire planet's existenceóand he took on Himself all the sin of the entire human race. He suffered God turning His back on Him at the crossóthe wrath of God against sinóand he died an agonizing death of pain and spiritual abandoment and mental and emotional laceration. He did thisóso we do not have to experience it. Yes, He is just and merciful, full of wrath against sin and full of forgiveness for all who believe His promises and accept Jesus' shed blood of the eternal covenant. Salvation is a mystery too great to comprehend. We can only stand back in awe and say, "I praise you, Father!" Colleen | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 525 Registered: 7-2004 |
Has anyone here been listening to Gene Scott as he teaches on Romans. He goes back to all of the original NT biblical languages, reads what they say, and compares the original texts to the current modern translations. I've said all of that to make a point clear that Gene beats it to death because he wants all of the people he teaches to understand that the outpouring of grace through the Lord Jesus Christ is all of/from him and none from human endeavour. Romans 3:22, as originally stated should be thus in the NIV: The righteousness of God comes through "the" faith "of" Jesus Christ to all who are "faithing." Gene also teaches extensively on "Bible Faith" or as he calls it, the A-B-C's of Bible Faith, which is Action, based on Belief, sustained by Confidence. We are called to express the kind of faith that Jesus expressed when he went to the cross for us. We have far more promises than Jesus did that we will be able to reach beyond the oblivion of the grave. He had the one promise from the Father, that if he would go to the cross, after having become law for us, and as law to die upon that cross, the Father would raise him up on the third day. That means that like David we must say, "Though he slay me, yet will I trust him." | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1640 Registered: 3-2004 |
When I stand back and contemplate God and what Jesus did for human kind, all I can truly say is, "God, you are awesome." Diana | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 373 Registered: 9-2004 |
Lady Diana! I am soo happy that you found a church home!! Hallelujah!! All my love to you! Tracey | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 374 Registered: 9-2004 |
Catalyst, I love #4! LOL! I was too! and I wasn't even SDA! | ||
| Tracey Registered user Username: Tracey Post Number: 375 Registered: 9-2004 |
Oops! I meant #6 How do we edit posts? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2165 Registered: 12-2003 |
At the top right corner of the thread, there are the words "edit profile". Click on that, and you can edit your post if you do it within 10 minutes of posting. Colleen |
