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Noticeofappeal
Registered user
Username: Noticeofappeal
Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 9:05 am: |     |
TDF,
You said: "My experience teaches me that many SDAs have their Adventism so closely tied to their identity that when someone challenges Adventism, they view the challenge as a personal attack." I couldn't have stated this better myself. In my opinion, this can be the most difficult part of leaving adventism. Even those of us who are formers -- for myself, at least -- have some difficulty escaping the consuming SDA influence in the formative years. It becomes part of our identity... which perhaps makes it all the more enjoyable to shed ;-).
I would also add that a "challenge" to adventism can be the act of leaving the church, etc., or jewelry, wine, smoking, dancing, etc. -- acts or events even directed at the particular SDA family member in question... and yet they are seen as a direct personal attack.
My own family has gotten used to my continued "friendly" sniping at Ellen (as well as my enjoyment of good wine, sabbath breaking, for that matter ;-). It was funny last Christmas, however, when my sister's new SDA pastor fiance' didn't understand that all my EGW asides and comments weren't an invitation to serious discourse on the history/future of the brethren. "I wonder how beautiful Ellen White would have been if she hadn't been hit in the face with a rock?" he asked, as I choked on my veggie-turkey stuffing and knew the family would never be the same again.
CB |
Tdf
Registered user
Username: Tdf
Post Number: 79
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 9:55 am: | |
LOL!!! I think my family has had similar family get-togethers where awkward silence was filled with giggles stifled by choking on rubbery veggie meat. Hahaha! I'm looking forward to the day when I can make little side comments about Adventism and my family simply roll their eyes. :-) |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2142
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 11:41 am: | |
Tdf, depending on your family, that day might not come. You're right about Adventism being so much a part of their idedntity they take leaving as a personal rejection.
It seems that how much acceptance there can eventually be depends upon how committed people are to actually knowing Jesus. If an Adventist really wants to know Jesus, I believe they become more able to accept those who leave.
If ADventism is a consuming identity, however, they may never come to terms. The "former's" beliefs are too much of a challenge to the Adventist's identity and comfort and life and world view.
In the case of the part of Richard's family who are very observant Adventists, I've come to the conclusion after our being out nearly eight years, that they will never be able to reconcile themsleves to it unless a miracle occurs.
Their displeasure is not merely disagreement. It's profound anger. Although they see us regularly, the comments and sarcasm slip out--especially if there are other people around as well.
I think part of the anger results from their belief that "if they'd done a better job" of teaching Adventism, this wouldn't be happening. Nothing Richard says can relieve that guilt. They are somehow responsible for his defection.
Another part of the anger is that he has embarrassed them to those in the church they admire. By being a "former", he has put them in a "bad light". (You know how it is--people with wandering kids were often looked at as somehow having not quite measured up.)
Richard has told them that if one of his boys became immersed in a pagan religion and came to him to talk about it, he would read everything he could in order to understand what they believed so he could discuss it. His relatives refuse to read any of the matieral important to Richard.
This refusal tips their hand, I believe, to the fact that they are scared to know the truth. To discover that they might be wrong would uncover a LOT of things in their lives they don't want to look at. They want the status quo; they don't want to KNOW.
No, there's no "friendly sniping" with our Adventist relatives. In fact, there's no discussion of anything deeply significant when we are together. It's uncomfortable and painful like a chronic injury that never heals properly.
We've had to learn to set boundaries so they don't release their anger and sarcasm on non-family guests who might also be present. We've had to learn to be consistent and attentive to their true needs without feeling hurt. We've had to give them to God (over and over, even!) and ask Him to deal with their hearts and to help us love them for Him.
We've had to establish some emotional distance and remember that Jesus said that His family are those who do the will of His Father.
Yes, leaving Adventism divides people because the gospel divides people. Those who deeply desire truth will be drawn to the gospel wherever they see it. Those who fear losing what they know will resist the gospel. And for them, it is personal. They simply do not have the eyes to see that from our perspective, it's about Jesus, not them.
Only the Holy Spirit can heal these wounds and open spiritual eyes.
Colleen |
Tdf
Registered user
Username: Tdf
Post Number: 80
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 12:43 pm: | |
Colleen,
Thanks for your post. Much of your experience resonates with me. Although we've been out for much less time than you and Richard, we're beginning to prepare ourselves for the possibility that an improved relationship may happen very, very slowly (if at all).
I definitely understand what you mean by "anger." We remain on the receiving end of lots of anger. Although we are aware of the root of the anger, my parent's anger is really creating a wall that is difficult to scale. And, at times, I don't even have the energy to try.
I agree with you that one of the roots of the anger is guilt. My wife's mother has commented that, if she had only been more consistent in her Sabbath-keeping, my wife would not be a "back-slider" (don't you love that term?). My parents seem to be soaking up the pity of their SDA friends, but I wonder how long that will last. I'm sure they are embarrassed by us.
One thing is certain--my daughter will probably not grow up to be a carbon copy of my wife and me (nor do I really want her to). I'm hoping that I respond to her differences with more warmth and love than my parents have.
We're still learning to "set boundaries" and our initial efforts haven't gone very well. There is definitely a learning curve to becoming a former.
I know that God isn't finished with any of us, and I pray daily that God will make Himself real to me and my family. More than anything, I just want them to see Christ for who He really is. |
Patriar
Registered user
Username: Patriar
Post Number: 43
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 10:18 pm: | |
Tdf & Colleen:
Oh how I understand what you're saying. This journey out has become very very lonely and painful at times. My mother-in-law flat-out told my husband that we were taking the "easy" road. He told her that if she thought this kind of pain is 'easy', think again. Easy would be to close our eyes and plug our ears to the Truth. Easy would be to go on going to church in our comfortable way with the comfortable people we've always known with the comfortable padded pews and the easy sermons. Easy is thinking that I've got the truth already so I don't need anyone else's version of it. No, this is definitely not the easy road.
My parents have tended to just ignore the whole thing. I call it the elephant in the room whenver we're together. I hope someday it will be funny, but right now it's just hard to endure.
That being said, this is the joyful road. We have experienced HIS faithfulness & HIS love beyond measure (as promised) because we KNOW without a shadow of doubt that we're in the will of God. That is profoundly joyful. We know that we have followed the Light.
Ephesians has become one of my favorite books and particularly this passage:
16I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledgeóthat you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
20Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen. Ephesians 3:16-21
I am so so grateful for this forum. Collen, I can't imagine all the work that must go into this and Proclamation (by the way I received it in the mail today...thanks for getting me back on the mailing list). You are awesome and are doing a wonderful work. THANK YOU!
Patria
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Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2148
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 12:00 am: | |
Glad you got your magazine, Patria!
Richard and his folks have had the same conversation you describe above between your husband and his mom. It almost laughable, really, if it weren't so pathetic; to call this the "easy way out"!
No, this is the most difficult thing we've ever doneóbut like you said, Patria, it is still the road of profound joy. God is amazing!
Colleen |
Lindylou
Registered user
Username: Lindylou
Post Number: 65
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 5:22 pm: | |
I have enjoyed reading this thread. There is so much heart in all your words! Through the obvious pain that each of you feel - there is an obvious joy in Jesus that stands out and somehow makes it all right! You are each courageous people. Thank you for sharing your stories.
Hope and peace are the common threads - Despite the pain and hurt and division and misunderstandings, there is hope for healing and peace that no matter what happens with our families - "all is well with my soul".
"Noticeofappeal" are you still living in the Walla Walla area? Would love to make contact if you are. "Dd" and I just found each other this year - and what a blessing it is to have another person to share with in person all the things that have been mentioned here on this thread.
I, too, have nearby family with staunch SDA beliefs. My mom has left the sda church but my dad (a retired conference man) has stayed. Talk about division! But I have to give my dad credit for not trying to argue with his family about their "desertion". He doesn't make us feel guilty one bit. What a blessing. My husband's family is another story! Oh boy! So I can relate to your experience. Hang in there! |
Lindylou
Registered user
Username: Lindylou
Post Number: 66
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 5:34 pm: | |
Oh, I wanted to say something about the resilency of our kids re: SDA beliefs. I have observed in my own children - and "Dd"'s wonderful kids - that we don't have to worry about them buying into SDA ism. They can easily see the contrast between this cult and true Christianity. Fortunately, they haven't been made to read the 'red books' like many of us had to growing up. So they haven't been brainwashed.
They do encounter indoctrination at school - but I have seen each of these children identify the problems with sda beliefs because they have personally experienced something better - a freedom in Jesus that some of us never had as kids. It is so encouraging to see our children far ahead of us in discerning truth. I think Colleen and "Dd" would agree. |
Benevento
Registered user
Username: Benevento
Post Number: 13
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 8:29 pm: | |
Welcome CB I'lljust add you to my prayer list and
please on't give up!
Lindylu I am in College Place today and will be here
tomorrow would love to meet you--is there a church there that you attend tomorrow? |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2150
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 12:10 am: | |
Yes, Lindylou--It is amazing to me to see the discernment and perceptions and spiritual insight my boys have at their ages--I wonder how my life would have been different if I'd had what they have at their ages.
Colleen |
Lindylou
Registered user
Username: Lindylou
Post Number: 71
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 9:11 pm: | |
Benevento, I just now read your email about being in College Place on Sunday. So sorry I missed it! "Dd" and I did attend the Blue Mtn. Community Church this morning. It would have been wonderful to have met you there! Bummer!
Let us know the next time you are in town - PLEASE. Guess that will teach me to get onto the forum more often!  |
Benevento
Registered user
Username: Benevento
Post Number: 14
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 9:33 am: | |
Lindylou I wasn't sure if you would read it but thought I would take a chance--I go over occasionaly, I have relatives there. I'll let you know next time I'm going to be there. I have a granddaughter who attends WAVA, she'll be a senior next year.
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Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 488
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 9:03 pm: | |
Benevento,
Please do let us know when you are in the area! What a blessing it would be to meet you and spend some time together in fellowship and praise for the way God has led us all in our lives! Our dear, sweet Colleen knows how to reach me via email. These summer days with my children home, I find very few snatches of time to check in on the forum. I do take a bit more time to check on my emails, though. Colleen even has my phone number (it would be fine to share that also, Colleen - and thank you as always!  ) so please do make contact the next time you head into Walla Walla territory. |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1860
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 2:47 pm: | |
My mother quotes the text that says to raise up a child in the truth and he will never depart from it to try to get me into being SDA. I think that is way far out!
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Wooliee
Registered user
Username: Wooliee
Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 5:05 pm: | |
"I wonder how beautiful Ellen White would have been if she hadn't been hit in the face with a rock?" he asked, as I choked on my veggie-turkey stuffing and knew the family would never be the same again.
CB: That comment was hilarious! I got a good laugh out of that. I have always thought that the fact that she was nailed in the head with a rock should make one question her judgement a little more. Maybe if she hadn't been hit in the head we wouldn't be here having these discussions, and the world would know her as a beauty queen instead.
I had a friend get in serious trouble when I was in Academy for plagiarism. Guess who she was accused of plagiarizing from? Yep, good old EGW. Isn't that ironic?
Julie |
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