| Author |
Message |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 369
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 10:09 am: |     |
Speaking of the Reformation, I listened to a very informative radio program last night, and anyone can listen to this program that is interested, by downloading it off the following site, www.whitehorseinn.org. On this program the panelists that are pictured on this link, held a round table discussion of what the new Pope is all about. SDAs have no reason to fear from this pope. He wants to undo much of the ecumenical direction the papacy has taken. He wants to be sure that the Council of Trent which affirmed that Luther's doctrine of Justification by Faith alone is ANATHEMA, becomes even more strongly entrenched. These panelists, who have done such a great job on this radio program aired in S. Cal on KKLA 99.5 FM, at 9 pm every Sunday night now for the last 15 years, made some very important points about how protestants have become overly tolerant of RCC and have forgotten that RCC is incompatible with the true gospel. Adventism has the same doctrine of faith plus works that RCC has as documented so well by Geoffrey Paxton in his book "Shaking of Adventism" that can be read online at a link provided by Drpatti on the thread "The book that propelled me out of Adventism". As true Protestants, we must continue to be vigilant in opposing all systems that strike right at the heart of the Gospel, and tries to take away our assurance. Galatianism comes in many different forms, and is also alive and well in much of American Fundamentalism also.
Stan |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 2088
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 11:28 am: | |
Stan, I'm glad you summarized this particular panel's assessment: "that RCC is incompatible with the true gospel". I have believed this for quite a while also; in fact, the more I understood Adventism, the more I realized what the real problems with Catholicism are.
It's been interesting to me to see our own pastor and his wife (I actually hear Elizabeth say things more than Gary about this subject because of my involvement in women's ministry leadership) take Catholicism increasingly seriously.
Many women with Catholic backgrounds come to Trinity's women's Bible study, and Elizabeth is diplomatic but clear whenever we study passages that directly teach truths contrary to Catholicism. Their theology does stand in opposition to the gospel just as surely as Adventism does.
All of which is not to say people don't find Jesus in Catholicism--just as in Adventism. But I believe their growth can be limited if they continue to hold to Catholicism (or Adventism) in spite of what they learn the gospel of grace is really about.
Also, Stan, good point about Galatianism also being in much of American Fundamentalism as well.
Colleen |
Bob
Registered user
Username: Bob
Post Number: 298
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 2:27 pm: | |
For those of you who like to read, I have a great book to recommend to you. It is "Free At Last: Experiencing True Freedom Through Your Identity in Christ" by Tony Adams (2001, Moody Press).
Bob |
Bob
Registered user
Username: Bob
Post Number: 299
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 7:03 pm: | |
I goofed in my previous post, and I apologize. The author of the book "Free At Last" is TONY EVANS.
Bob |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 380
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 1:11 pm: | |
Martin Luther stood for the purity of the gospel, and at times he could be very vitriolic towards the papacy. But that "Here I Stand" spirit has been missing among politically correct evangelicals such as Hank Hanegraf and others who will not point out the true nature of either Adventism or Catholicism. There have been exceptions such as R.C. Sproul, and I just ran across this article by Dr. Robert Morey, author of "Death and the Afterlife", and wow, there is no politeness or political correctness exhibited here: www.faithdefenders.com/ministry/deskof/drmorey/Pope+John+II+is+on+Fire+For+Christ.htm See what you think. Is Dr. Morey being hateful? Or is there a better and more loving way to say the same thing? Any comments?
Stan |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 381
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 1:16 pm: | |
For some reason the link doesn't appear to be working, but if you type in the web address directly, I know it works.
Stan |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 831
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 5:34 pm: | |
Well, compare the tone taken by the discussion group in the WhiteHorseInn link you posted recently with the tone taken by Morey.
Both are frank in stating that the RCC is not compatable with the Biblical Gospel. However, I would dare say the WHI guys were frank but loving while Morey came off in a way that is likely to obscure his message. If both messages are essenially correct, you have to ask which is more effective?
Accusing Christian headmasters of evangelical Christian schools of running whorehouses isn't exactly my idea of civil Christian discourse.
Chris |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 386
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2005 - 7:03 pm: | |
Chris,
I believe you are right again. I thought it was too much, and that is counterproductive. Yes, the Whitehorse inn had it right, and thanks for straightening out Morey twice today, so Morey looks to be 0 for 2. Thanks also for reviewing both articles today.
Stan |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 394
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 3:41 pm: | |
Martin Luther was the biggest star of the Reformation, but there were other great reformers as well. John Calvin was also a great thinker, and modern shortened translations of the "Institutes of Christian Religion" are now available. However, Calvin seems to be the most misunderstood, and misrepresented figure of that time. Calvinism has become an evil word in some Arminian circles. It is unfortunate that some who are in the Calvinist camp act very unchristian toward their Arminian brothers, and in some cases won't have fellowship, and accuse them of preaching a different gospel. As former Adventists, most of us know the effects of where extreme Arminianism takes us.
I admit my bias. I am a TULIP Calvinist, but we attend an Arminian church, because we love their praise and worship, and I have no problem with it. I don't like the mean-spirited hyper-calvinism I have seen. There is a very readable summary of what Calvinism should be like that is authored by John Piper, author of "Desiring God", on his web site www.desiringgod.org/library/topics/doctrines_grace/tulip.html This article presents the 5 points in an easily readable and winsome way, emphasizing how these doctrines of grace enhance evangelism and missions, and the presentation of the gospel. There are some great quotes from Spurgeon, and other giants of the faith expressing how these doctrines have helped them. This is not supposed to be dry orthodoxy, but should transform us to better honor Jesus Christ and His gospel.
Stan |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 406
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 10:14 pm: | |
The White Horse Inn folks had another great discussion tonight discussing how Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren relates to Reformation based theology. You can listen to this panel discussion radio program at any time by going to www.whitehorseinn.org. This group of panelists gave a fair and balanced critique of Rick Warren's theology. They acknowledge that while this book is not heretical, there are still significant problems that need to be addressed. I know this was discussed at length on another thread. These panelists are informative and entertaining. Their major concern was the confusion of law and gospel in this book, which at times bordered on works righteousness, and leanings toward Roman Catholic ideas. They also acknowledge that Rick Warren listens to their program on the radio in S. Cal, and corresponds with them. So this was a friendly but interesting conversation on Purpose Driven Life and the emphasis on being seeker sensitive.
Stan |
Tisha
Registered user
Username: Tisha
Post Number: 80
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 12:00 pm: | |
There were a few times when our Church study group was watching the Rick Warren video that I brought up the theology as bordering on the Works orientation. However, it seems like those who had not come out of a works-oriented view-point did not take it that way, although they could see what I meant when I pointed it out. So, maybe it still comes down to the "lenses" we wear.
I'm going to go to that link and read the discussion when I get time later. Thanks for posting it, Stan.
-tisha |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 410
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 4:48 pm: | |
There is so much great reading online you can do of the great classical authors of the faith. I happened across the web site dedicated to preserving the writings and sermons of that great preacher Charles Haddon Spurgeon today, and linked to an article he wrote on the great Reformation doctrines of grace having to do with election, and perseverance of the saints, as well as many other topics. Here is the link www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm
Stan |
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