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Message |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 447
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 1:23 pm: |     |
Dear Redhorsewoman, for a long time my church was Sunday morning TV. Now it is frequently DrGeneScott.com on my computer. I'm in the process of getting divorced and am not anxious to run into my soon-to-be former husband, so I worship at home. My bible study group is my "body of Christ" for the moment. I know I'll have to find a new church, but sitting in a pew with my bad back has been trying--my recliner has all the cushions in the right places so I don't have to take a pain pill in order to endure a sermon.
We can be your "body of Christ" for you until you are ready to reach out to the larger world around you. It is good, though, to have the human touch put on worship, so I suppose you and I shouldn't wait too long before finding a church to become a part of. I'll pray for you, and I ask you to pray for me.
Belva |
Lydell
Registered user
Username: Lydell
Post Number: 680
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 1:35 pm: | |
I do understand what you are saying, Redhorsewoman. And I absolutely have no doubt that God has been with you! Aren't we glad he keeps at us! 
But, we found, from the personal experience of attempting to meet as a "home church" with friends for 8 years, that it really is not at all the same thing as being in a "church". During that time we definitely were saying what you have just said, that assembling together doesn't necessarily have to be in a church setting.
What we found was that, when we were meeting in our very small group, we had no one to challenge us. Oh, we would bring up topics, have lively discussions, disagreements, etc. But when it all came down to it, we all had basically the same problems theologically. We had all been in the SDA's....and frankly, our theology was still screwy.
We will all absolutely tell you that yes, the Lord met with us there, beyond doubt. Unfortunately, he could only take us just so far spiritually because of the baggage we were carrying. Staying out there meant that we were cut off more than we realized from the rest of the Christian community.
Now we had other friends who were Christians with whom we spent time. But it just is not the same as being convenanted together as a church body. God does work corporately as well as individually with us.
Out there we were cut off from those who could have confronted our screwy thinking, could have brought up the scriptures we were conveniently overlooking, could have mentored us in our walk with the Lord, prodded us to deeper Bible study, encouraged us with their prayers, and so much more. In other words, we were cutting ourselves off from tremendous blessing....AND we were not allowing the Lord the opportunity to really use us in His kingdom work. That work happens, or certainly SHOULD be happening, on a one-on-one basis. BUT, he does also work corporately....
Please don't take this as coming down on you....that is definitely not intended. Just prodding you into thinking.
You have birds? We have a cockatiel here....and just how DOES one live in peace with a cranky cockatiel?! If you know, I'd love to hear it! |
Tealeaves
Registered user
Username: Tealeaves
Post Number: 231
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 1:57 pm: | |
redhorsewoman,
My husband usd to be devout SDA, and after he left the SDA church, he too had a hard time thinking of joining any other church group. He has continued to study the New Covenant with a small group of men (they have an accountability grou/bible study.) And we have been a part of some "home church" groups who just focus on loving Christ and supporting and praying for each other, rather than on doctrine.
After about 2 years of not having a formal church home, we have finally just begun to attend a Sunday service for the last few weeks, at a wonderful spirit-filed local church.
But our thinking is that the small group of families that meets at our home on thursday nights for dinner, prayer, and fellowship is more of our church family than is the Sunday group we meet with.
Our small group doesnt get into doctrine, we just share what God is doing in our lives, where we see need, where we have seen answered prayer, and generally support each other.
the bottom line is that "church" isn't a building or a group. Being connected to other Christians is what being a pert of the body of CHrist is what church is all about. I pray that you find this.
-tanya- |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 449
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 2:47 pm: | |
Tanya, you have once again hit the nail on the head. The body of Christ, the Church, is the people in the church, not the building. It is so much easier to discern which part is yours to play when there aren't so many other people there that you can easily disappear. The church that I was attending up until a few weeks ago is a wonderful place, full of the joy of the Lord, and fully supportive to its membership, but there are 7000+ members, and a good number of those people attend regularly. There are five different services, two on Saturdays, and three on Sundays. Some people hop around from service to service, so it is hard to get used to who you will see at any given time. That takes us back to small groups where if you are missing, you are missed. My small group of 10 women who are in love with Jesus is my "Body of Christ." We have seen so many answers to prayer, for our kids, for others, and for ourselves that it is overwhelmingly obvious to us that there is strength and power in prayer, and we absolutely know that Jesus answers prayers, every single one of them.
Belva |
Freeatlast
Registered user
Username: Freeatlast
Post Number: 382
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 3:15 pm: | |
I totally agree. For nearly 5 years, I have held firm to the philosophy that I will NEVER AGAIN devote myself to an institution of religion. I am devoted wholly to Jesus Christ, and Him alone. I understand that His body is there to minister to me, and to be ministered to by me, so I do attend worship services and have a network of Christian people who minister to and pray for me and are ministered to and prayed for by me. It's a true statement that there are no "Lone Ranger Christians" for I do not know how I would get along without the ministry of the body of Christ. However, I don't believe I will ever be able to commit myself to a single church congregation again. I certainly do not believe that Christ is calling me to do that at this time.
I struggle with how to answer the question "what church do you go to?". The honest answer is Pasadena Calvary Chapel, Agoura Bible Fellowship, Scottsdale Bible Church, Victory Outreach International, Highland View Pentecostal Assembly, and I attend mass from time to time at Nuestra Senora La Reina de Los Angeles where my daughter was baptized and Our Lady of Assumption in El Paso, Texas with my wife's family. I watch In Touch with Charles Stanley, Harvest with Greg Laurie, and any Billy Graham crusade I can find on TV. I listen to New Life Live with Drs. Arterburn, Cloud, and Townsend, as well as Renewing Your Mind with R.C. Sproul, Insight for Living with Chuck Swindoll, Truth for Life with Alistair Begg, etc. etc. etc.
I support any and all of these ministries with prayer and/or finances on an ad-hoc basis, as I am led by the Spirit.
Church? I go to the body of Christ. I belong to Christ. Period. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1997
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 3:30 pm: | |
I'm reading a borrowed book entitled "Is the Father of Jesus the God of Muhammad?" In the intrduction the author, Timothy George, quotes author Simone Weil who wrote a little book entitled "Waiting for God" in which she details her own torturous pathway to Jesus.
George writes, "In her little book Waiting for God, she broke through to a clarity that is almost shocking the read. 'Christ,' she wrote, 'likes us to prefer truth to him because, before being Christ, he is truth. If one turns aside from him to go toward the truth, one will not go far before falling into his arms.'ì
That quote rang true. I have pondered often, over the past few years, that the desire for truth is the desire that God always honors. The desire for truth, however, must be really TRUE. In other words, desiring truth ultimately means being willing to KNOW truth when God reveals it.
The classic example is the contrast between Peter, who told Jesus He was the Son of God, and the Pharisees, who claimed to own truth--and they completely missed Truth when He came to them directly.
Redhorsewoman, as long as you are truly desiring to know Truth, God will guide you to it and to places and people that will nurture you.
With prayers for you,
Colleen
(Message edited by Colleentinker on May 19, 2005) |
Jwd
Registered user
Username: Jwd
Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 11:41 am: | |
Dear Redhorsewoman,
Well, I just finished quite a tretise to you which involved your emotional posture regarding "church involvement". I clicked when I should have clucked, I guess....or something;
for my entire message disappeared and I'm not inclined to attempt to repeat it all.
Perhaps it was not meant to be read. I simply related to your feelings. Most are acquainted with Heb. 10:25 but we are all walking in our OWN moccasins. Haddon Robinson said, "Life is what happens to us while we are making other plans." Just as God adjusted the agenda of Abraham and Sarah, so He can and will outline our own agenda and life according to His timing and His wisdom. Meanwhile I am secure in allowing Christ to be "ALL and in all." Col 3:11.
I hope this forum gives you some real fellowship, encouragement, enlightenment and some "sunshine of Living Joy."
From one horse-person to another, may PAGL* fill your consciousness in Christ.
JWD
* Peace, Assurance, Gratitude and Love |
Redhorsewoman
Registered user
Username: Redhorsewoman
Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 8:16 pm: | |
Interesting thoughts, all. Thank you. I have a book (which I really need to complete) called "One River, Many Wells."
The basic thought reflected in this work is that spirituality is a river and the various religious sects are wells tapping into that river.
No one well contains all truth or all spirituality, but each one contains some truth. Spirituality, however, is outside of, but yet encompasses the "wells."
So far, I've been "churchless" for twenty years. I do sometimes think about attending services at one church or another, but just haven't done anything about it yet. I think I need about 48 hours more per day in order to fit everything in.
As far as Cocatiels go....sorry, but my birds are finches. Not too noisy and no attitude problems, so I can't give you any suggestions. LOL Just had two batches of babies, though. They are adorable. |
Lindylou
Registered user
Username: Lindylou
Post Number: 56
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 8:39 am: | |
Welcome Redhorsewoman. My husband's family has Paso's. What a smooth ride they are! We have a couple of Walkers. There is no going back to enduring the jiggly trot of a "regular" horse! My 14yr old daughter is really the horse gal in the family. I just enjoy looking at them grazing in the back pasture.
I have tried to figure out "church" myself. I find that my personality is such that I don't need to socialize with a crowd. Give me time with one or two spiritually minded soul mates and I am delirously happy.
Someone recently introduced me to the reflections of "Al Maxey" and he had a recent article about "assembling" together that was refreshing. It isn't about going to a building.
No one should feel pressured into going to church. When a person is looking to Christ - they will do the right thing for them. I admire your commitment to a spiritual relationship with Christ over these last 20 years after having walked away from the cult of JW. Too often, people look at church attendance as a measuring stick of one's spirituality. How far from the truth that can be!
So glad you joined this forum. Your input will add fresh insight. Sincerely, lindylou |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 794
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 3:24 pm: | |
Redhorsewoman, welcome to the forum! It's good to have you here.
As I was reading through your post above, it struck me how alluring the idea of ìall roads lead to Godî sounds. Itís easy to like the idea of being able to pick any path we wish to travel secure in the knowledge that whatever path we prefer to follow weíll arrive at the same destination. Many people throughout the ages have believed this, however, Jesus of Nazareth wasnít one of them.
In the words of Jesus,
John 14:6
6 Jesus said* to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.î
Not only did Jesus claim to be the ONLY way to God, but He made it quite clear that apart from Himself there is only condemnation. Again, in Jesusí own words, speaking of Himself He says,
John 3:18
18 ìAnyone who believes in Him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the ï One and Only Son of God.î
So based on Jesusí own claims for Himself, He is either the only way to God, or He is none of the ways to God. In other words, He is either exactly what He said, the only way of salvation, or He is a liar (or possibly a mad man) and cannot be trusted. I see nothing at all in any of Jesusí teaching to suggest that He was either a liar or a madman. I see no reason not to take Him at His word.
Not only can we take Jesus at His word, but using simple logic it is apparent that diametrically opposed ideas and systems cannot be equally true. Let me give you just a couple of examples to illustrate the point.
It was not possible for the Israelites to serve the one true God and serve the false god Baal. It is not possible for modern people to serve the one true God and serve the many demon gods of Hinduism. Either ìAî or ìBî are correct. Either ìA: there is only one God, there are no others (Deut. 6:4, Is. 45:21)î or ìB: There are many godsî. It is not possible for both ìAî and ìBî to be true. One must be truth and the other must of necessity be false. One leads to the true God and the other leads to false gods.
While it is true that no one human organization contains all truth, that is not the same as saying there is no objective truth. Full truth is not found in any organization of human founding, but in the person of Jesus Christ who is Truth itself according to His own claims (see John 14:6 above).
At this point itís important to understand that ìThe Churchî is not a building, itís not a denomination, and itís not an organization. It is rather a collection of people who have been born again in Christ Jesus and who are now indwelt by the Holy Spirit. In this sense, the Church is a repository of Truth as all those who are found in Christ have His Spirit in them. They are the Body of Christ on this earth.
To be sure, The Church often imperfectly reflects Christ and has even at times garbled the Truth it has been given, but to the extent that The Body accurately reflects the Head (Christ), True Truth is being proclaimed.
I hope to hear more from you RHW. Keep posting!
In love and respect,
Chris
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Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 135
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 3:55 pm: | |
Redhorsewoman, thanks for your comments.
You said:
"The basic thought reflected in this work is that spirituality is a river and the various religious sects are wells tapping into that river. "
I know that for me this means we are all "plugged into" the river of Life in Christ Jesus. I attend a number of different churchs and been enriched in different ways in each. I have my core group of friends who I can be in deeper fellowship and who hold me accountable in my walk with Jesus. I've been meeting a couple of times a week with a fellow Christian who goes to the Church of the Nazerine (sp?) He and I can share anything and hold each other accountable and are willing to "speak hard truth" at times to each other.
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com |
Redhorsewoman
Registered user
Username: Redhorsewoman
Post Number: 11
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 7:47 pm: | |
Lindylou, are your husband's family's Pasos Paso Finos or Peruvian Pasos? Mine is a Peruvian. They tend to be heavier built than Paso Finos, but just as smooth. Getting a horse when you're older means that you don't like to be jostled as much. Hablador is like riding on a couch....until he spooks, that is. LOL
I thank you all for your experiences. I know that just talking about things here is "assembling" together in a way. :o) |
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