| Author | Message | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 384 Registered: 7-2004 |
Now wait a minute. Didn't God create the cucumbers, mustard, apples, and all of those lovely spices. A resounding YES! Hasn't he said that he wants to give us good gifts. Those things are really good to the taste. What is more is that I still feel Jesus working in my life, so here's one big raspberry to that! Pthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Love you, Free. Belva | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 385 Registered: 7-2004 |
I'm in earnest here--when I was SDA I remember reading what EGW wrote about condiments and spices and I would think, hey, those things are plants. They grow on bushes and trees, like fruits and vegetables. How can they be bad? Same goes for coffee and tea--they are plant products. In the Bible the whole economy was seemingly based on wine and olive oil, didn't anybody besides me notice that? The story of Gideon has Gideon thrashing wheat in a wine press--hello, is anyone else awake? If you look through scripture compared with SDA theology you will keep running into these dichotomies. In the scriptures people are encouraged to enjoy a little wine, but warned about becoming a drunkard. All things must be taken in balance, without any one thing taken to excess. Since I was never exposed to alcholic drinks I never really developed a taste for them, so I can take them or leave them. However, I was raised in the Southwest, and I still crave chili--lots of it. Every time I had some, though, I wondered, is this the pepper we are to avoid (I was really small when those questions went through my head)? Now I try to eat smart, but I eat. Belva | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 359 Registered: 5-2002 |
The kingdom of heaven is not about food or drink. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1874 Registered: 12-2003  |
It's amazing how those prohibitions imprinted so many of us--and have you ever stopped to think how embarrassing and/or crazy they sound to Christians in general? A couple of months ago at our Bible study leader's prep meeting, Elizabeth Ingrig mentioned that someone (a Christian who attends Trinity Church but works at LLUMC) mentioned that the cafeteria at Loma Linda had just started serving pepper and mustard. (I haven't yet been abel to confirm this as a fact, but that's the report!) Several women turned to me and asked, "What's wrong with pepper and mustard?!" Well, there's no way to make an answer seem logical to modern, logical people. "Uh, they're stimulants, and they excite the animal passions," I responded. It went downhill from there! As someone commented a week or so ago--if Ellen really had a true "health message", why didn't she give advice about pastuerizing dairy products and washing the hands as means of preventing disease? Avoiding pickles and vinegar and mustard might make people feel holy, but it does nothing to generally improve the status of a society's health. Colossians 2:20-23: "Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 'Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!'? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence." Jesus is the one who redeems our behavior and creates His likeness in us! Praise Him! Colleen | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 227 Registered: 7-2000  |
In condemning those things, Ellen was just copying and repeating the views of some of the wacko doctors and practitioners of her day. One has to wonder if the woman ever had an original thought worth writing down. Bob | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 45 Registered: 1-2005 |
I wonder what she thought about the cravings of pregnant women? Don't they often include pickles? | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 182 Registered: 8-2004 |
Here's a sample: "Diseased children are born because of the gratification of appetite by the parents. The system did not demand the variety of food upon which the mind dwelt. Because once in the mind it must be in the stomach is a great error which Christian women should reject. Imagination should not be allowed to control the wants of the system. Those who allow the taste to rule will suffer the penalty of transgressing the laws of their being. And the matter does not end here; their innocent offspring also will be sufferers."--2T 383 (1870). {1MCP 133.3} "Unwise advisers will urge upon the mother the gratification of every wish and impulse as essential to the well-being of her offspring. Such advice is false and mischievous. By the command of God Himself the mother is placed under the most solemn obligation to exercise self-control. Whose voice shall we heed--the voice of divine wisdom or the voice of human superstition?--ST, Feb. 26, 1902." {1MCP 133.4} | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 610 Registered: 10-2004  |
But in another place she wrote that a pregnant woman should have been given a whole list of foods whichs she had forbidden, including wine!
Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on May 02, 2005) | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 183 Registered: 8-2004 |
Ok, so which did she mean? | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 228 Registered: 7-2000 |
Ellen White has a wax nose. Bob | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 339 Registered: 7-2000 |
Several women turned to me and asked, "What's wrong with pepper and mustard?!" Well, there's no way to make an answer seem logical to modern, logical people. "Uh, they're stimulants, and they excite the animal passions," I responded. It went downhill from there! -------------------------------------------- Wait---my story is even worse! I gave the same response, but it was to a group of non-SDA folks whose primary language is Spanish! Try explaining 'animal passions' in Spanglish.... | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 856 Registered: 7-2003  |
B's explanation about pickles was because they were in vinegar, which is bad for you. A little is okay, but too much can "cause health problems." I've searched high and low and I can't find a single support for that in the medical literature any where. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 857 Registered: 7-2003 |
I'm still trying to figure out what "vital force" is..... Don't spices drain that too? | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 47 Registered: 1-2005 |
Ok, I meant that whole "pregnant women" and "pickles" thing as a joke! Sorry, I forgot you can't joke around the holy (or should I say "holey") writings of EGW. It reminds me of that expression, something about not mentioning the absurd, or it will come true! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 611 Registered: 10-2004 |
In EGW's day "too much" vinegar may have been a problem, as it seems that vinegar may have been quite alcoholic sometimes, in those days. But Ellen herself was addicted to vinegar: http://ellenwhite.org/contra9.htm No wonder those "testimonies" don't make any sense--she may have been drunk when she wrote them!! Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on May 02, 2005) | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 235 Registered: 3-2005 |
If you want to be healthy, just eat or drink everything EGW says is bad for you. Pepper has many health benefits as does mustard. Coffee and tea in moderation is good for you. The only thing she copied from her health contemporaries that was correct was about cigarettes and sugar. Ironically, the SDA food industry came up with all these highly refined foods, which are worse for you than pure sugar! The Apostle Paul was absolutely correct when he advised Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach, and many infirmities. The large number of different health problems that improve with moderate wine(especially red wine) use is increasing in the medical literature constantly. The taboos against wine drinking among EGW, SDAs, and sadly many other fundamentalists--including Calvary Chapel, where my wife and I attend-- are unbiblical, and are based on the idea that you will be more spiritual if you avoid these things. The whole American Christian doctrine of abstention from wine, comes from the work of the pagan Womens Christian Temperance Union, which was anything but Christian, but its views were adapted by most fundamentalist churches, and is very much alive and well today. That is why I believe the Reformed churches really have it right. Martin Luther railed against thoswho would set up artificial tests of spirituality. In fact, his wife ran a brewery, and that is how they supported themselves for ministry. It is very clear from the Bible that Jesus drank wine, and he provided wine at the wedding of Cana. I heard Chuck Swindoll talking about this wedding, and he was great saying what a life of the party Jesus must have been! He went on to say that we in America have become too uptight about this issue, and that we unnecessarily set up barriers to others in not associating with them. It would be absurd to say wine drinking is a sin, if indeed Jesus drank wine, as then he would not have lead a sinless life. One of the great things about going to school at PUC was its association with the rich wine vineyards. Our Sabbath afternoon entertainment would be touring the wineries, and then trying to maintain at sundown vespers. I was lucky, and never got caught. Admittedly there were times when we would indulge too much, which of course was wrong. I remember thinking, though, about how wine really is one of God's good gifts to mankind. Yes, man abuses all of God's gifts, (sex, food--you name it), but at the same time to automatically avoid wine because it might be abused, is not the right way to go. It can be demonstrated that much alcoholism in this country is attributed to the "Touch not, taste not" mentality that Colleen alluded to in Col. 2 18-23. If, like in Europe, children were taught the right use of wine (with meals etc.), then I am convinced that we would see a lot less alcoholism. In my profession, I see so much the results of alcohol abuse, my job would be much easier if we had prohibition! I also believe, we need to follow Paul's admonition in Romans 14, about "not eating meat or drinking wine if it causes your brother to fall" Notice he equates eating meat with drinking wine. Now, try putting grape juice in that equation, or in that text of Timothy, try "drink a little grapejuice", and see how much sense it makes. We do need to abstain from wine, especially if we know people will be offended, or has a known problem with alcohol. Stan | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1441 Registered: 3-2004  |
And when one is drunk they see all kinds of things that are not there, if the person is an alcoholic. AND I BELIEVED ALL THAT FOR A LONG TIME! YUCK!!! Thank you God for taking me out of it. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 388 Registered: 7-2004 |
Why do we even care about all of this ridiculousness now? They are elemental things, and we are becoming more and more spiritual every day, right? | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1445 Registered: 3-2004 |
I can only say, that I care about it because people I love are still caught up in it. As I say that I am thinking it just might be better if I talked about what God is doing for me now, instead of ridiculing EGW. My humanity kicks in every so often. Diana | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 612 Registered: 10-2004 |
Stan wrote:
Also, ironically, the Little Debbie products are owned and manufactured by (and were even founded by) an SDA family--the McKee family. And they are just sugar combined with hydrogenated oil/trans fat and white flour! It goes totally against the Law of Ellen and the SDA "health message"--very ironic. But the McKee family even has a library named after them at Southern Adventist University. Jeremy |
