| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1879 Registered: 12-2003  |
I've often marvelled at the irony of Little Debbies as well. Not only do the McKees have a library named after them, but they wield a great deal of conservative power in church politics by virtue of their deep pockets. It's all so ironic. Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 549 Registered: 1-2003 |
I attend a church now that is Southern Baptist and they teach alcohol abstinence, which bothers me... but I love the church so much I still go. I know no man-made organization is 100% right, but they do have the Gospel 100% right...and to me that is what matters. You know, the Jews use wine in their feasts...they children even drink it. I was talking to my husband the other day about how wine/drinking is handled differently in Europe...I too am convinced the "forbidden" aspect of alcohol makes it so much more attractive to teens. If it was just something you had with a meal or in the evening to relax and not such forbidden fruit, it would be demystified instead of glorified. About eating and drinking. I recently bought an Indian cookbook. In India there are Hindu's etc. and you go from some Indians who only eat vegetables, some eat no beef, some eat no pork, and when they got to the no pork they listed the Jews and Muslims, then they got to the Parsi's and Christian's and said, "They will eat anything." I immediately thought of Paul and his counsel to eat anything sold in the meat market...and a sense of freedom washed over me that I couldn't explain. All these other groups are tied to dietary restrictions. Interesting. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 239 Registered: 3-2005 |
Has anyone seen the cover of TV Guide for the week of May 1-7? It looks very similar to the front cover of the Signs magazine which started this thread. I just saw it today. The caption is "duel of destiny" with the two light-sabered fighters. Anything resembling the Great Controversy? I still can't believe that Signs cover! Stan | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 48 Registered: 1-2005 |
Youíre right about cigarettes being bad for you. But ironically, obesity is set to overtake tobacco as the leading cause of preventable death in the U.S. within a year or two. Also, diabetes is becoming a pandemic health issue, with 1 in 3 kids born today who will develop it at some point in their future lives. Our eating habits are killing us! But for all the SDA talk about the health message, their version will do little or nothing to cure people. I have known many obese SDAs who strictly adhered to the health principles. I even think that some of the things they teach encourage these very two conditions. From the start, humans were meant to eat both plants and animals, in my opinion. Another part of it is the ěforbidden fruitî thatís been mentioned. And a lot of what we kids used to call ěveggie pork fried in veggie lardî was very unhealthy, but it was ěokayî to eat. Many say that if it tastes good, itís bad for you. Come to think of it, thatís the one sentence that completely sums up the Adventist health message, at least as far as how I learned it. I actually weigh less now then when I was at the Academy. And Iíve been out of the Army for a long time now, and exercise rarely! | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 860 Registered: 7-2003  |
B says 90% of all diseases are preventable and related to lifestyle. Does adventism really teach that at such a high percentage, or is B an extremist in even the SDA circles? He has been dumping the milk in my frig, I've noticed, when he's there to visit our son and I leave. How rude is that? I thought about dumping all his vegetarian stuff he brings and see if he notices. I think he'd probably think we ate it since I tend to not waste things... | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 391 Registered: 7-2004 |
How rude! Dumping the contents of someone else's fridge. You weren't sending the milk home with him to feed him with it. You might have had it available for your use only. Again, how rude. When someone comese to my home and does something like that, they are forbidden to come again until they can learn some manners. Belva | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 393 Registered: 7-2004 |
Not to be flogging a dead horse, but I've known so many SDAs that appeared to believe their ticket to heaven was the content of their stomachs. Theirs was a gospel of the dinner fork. Sadly, though, they had the diseases that every other member of society has. Perhaps they lived a few years longer, but they were no healthier in those remaining years. I'd rather flame out early and not leave around a demented shell for my family to have to care for. Belva | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1884 Registered: 12-2003 |
B's view is straight out of Ellen. Adventists who are into "lifestyle" and diet tend to believe that how they live controls their afflictions. (And I agree with Belva--he has NO BUSINESS dumping out your milk! Quite astonishing, actually...) While many diseases may actually be related to "lifestyle", I suspect the relationship is more associated with stress hormones and with outright lifestyle abuses, not merely the type of food we ingest. When Jesus healed people, he told them to go and sin no more. He didn't tell them to work less hard, to eat better balanced meals, to get 8 hours of sleep, etc,--not that these things should be ignored! I find it fascinating, however, that sin seems to have a physiological effect on our bodies. I suspect sometimes it may actually be a direct effect, but my hunch is that living a life outside of faith produces far more anxiety and stress hormones than does a life of surrender and trust. Ultlimately God heals our hearts. Our bodies are not, apparently the MAIN THING! Our bodies will be fully healed at the resurrection. No, Stan--I haven't seen the latest TV Guide. I'll look for it! Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 616 Registered: 10-2004  |
Growing up, my family used to think that Little Debbie was "better" than Hostess cakes, because they didn't contain lard or beef fat. Little did we know that the hydrogenated oil in the Little Debbies is much more unhealthy than lard! Speaking of obesity, the soy products the SDAs eat can cause hypothyroidism which can cause weight gain. That is why so many vegetarian SDAs are overweight! Colleen wrote...
The SDA response would be that not doing those things you listed is sin!  Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on May 03, 2005) | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 49 Registered: 1-2005 |
You're right, Jeremy. I knew the verse about our bodies being the temples of God long before I was taught John 3:16. That pretty much sums up Adventists' health emphasis. | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 50 Registered: 1-2005 |
Melissa, Bís take on diet and health certainly seem to be the norm of SDA ideology. I was always taught that vegan was the best to go, no matter what contradictory evidence there was out there. The worst of lies contain some grain of truth. At Weimar, there is a health-spa program called N.E.W.S.T.A.R.T. (Nutrition, Exercise, Water, Sunshine, Temperance, Air, Rest, and Trust in divine power). There was also hydro-therapy, massages, hiking trails, and a strong emphasis on your state of mind (we used to call one of the doctors there ěDr. Endorphinî.). These are all great concepts, but the vegan diet was terrible, in more ways than one! And the forbidden fruit was way too tempting for a lot of us. Iíll never forget the endless discussions we had over B-12, and how you could only get it from milk products or meat, and how could we as vegans get this vitamin and blah blah blah blahÖ At least at MBA we were lacto-ova vegetarians. That greatly eased my mind over the B-12 thing. He he heÖ Personally, I think that if we are going to be intelligent about our diets, we aught to look at the historical perspective. Humans have always been omnivorous, so to bust out with a vegan diet seems silly to me. The other thing is moderation, as Colleen alluded to. Itís not natural to cram too much of one food or of one type of food into our gullets. Again, humans have always had a varied diet. Looking back, I just donít get it. EGWís rambling and idiotic ěhealth messageî is so obviously a rehash of 19th century quack medicine that I canít believe any modern would buy into it. Yet millions still do. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1450 Registered: 3-2004  |
I am thinking, again!! I have to be careful  MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, the SDAs overeat because of the cognitive dissonance they sense in their lives and do not understand it or have any idea what it is. I am sure that is part of the reason for my eating disorder. Overeating is an emotional response to things going on in a person's life. I have had this disorder all my life and God has given me the victory over many things I used to eat over. Because of all the cognitive dissonance caused by the SDA doctrine and not knowing what is bothering a person and why, can cause a person to do all kinds of things. Extra food quiets the dissonance until the food is digested. Just my thoughts on the subject. Diana | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 556 Registered: 1-2003 |
Yet they won't baptize a smoker or an alcohol drinker...but gluttony as evidenced by obesity...A-OK! Not to cut anyone down...if I were a pastor, I would baptize anyone who professed faith in Jesus Christ and wanted to outwardly declare his allegience! But we all know that doesn't happen in an SDA church, there must be weeeeeeks and moooonnnths of indoctrination and subduing of the flesh before one can partake in baptism, and then it isn't into the Body of Christ but a sect! One even has to profess belief in a human. Sick! | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 864 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yesterday, Oprah had one of Bill Clinton's cardiologists on and they were talking about colon health and things to eat that not only benefit the heart, but the colon...as there are other systems besides cardiac (which seems to be the focus of that CHIP program). He actually said about 24 oz of coffee a day was considered "good" for you (helps things move along, so to say) assuming you don't have heart palpitations and a couple of other issues as it is still a stimulant. He said the studies showed it prevented liver cancer, parkinsons and alzheimers. He also talked about the benefits of eating fish and drinking red wine. I know B has been on this "natural and raw" kick since doing CHIPS, but it was fascinating to hear this doctor talk about the benefits of certain foods being cooked (for example tomatoes...you can eat 12 table spoons of cooked tomato sauce to get the health benefits from 124 raw tomatoes...). He also talked about the importance of milk (low fat) for vitamin D and calcium, but said most of us don't get enough magnesium with our calcium, so we get too constipated for the colon to function properly. If you could get over the giggle factor talking about things "normal" people don't talk about, it was very interesting. He also made the point of moderation and listening to your body. Of course, B wouldn't give him credibility to speak about health because he isn't properly "educated", but he had actual human samples of healthy tissues (kidneys, aorta, colon, lung) and damaged tissues. I'd never seen such things before.... Anyway, I just thought the SDAs listening to him say 3 cups of coffee per day was actually considered "good" for you would have quite a crisis if they gave any serious thought to what he said at all (after all, I'm presuming he discredited himself when he contradicted EGW). As far as B-12, B says I over estimate it's need. I asked him why we had bodies that needed b12 if God didn't intend for us to eat animal products (that original diet thing, you know). His response was you could get B12 in seaweed....to which I asked how much seaweed he ate. After researching that, I found the form in seaweed isn't in a form humans can utilize, so it's irrelevant that it's present there. Somewhere else history is mentioned, and I know B says just because a lot of people do something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, so to him, history is just stories, not lessons. I wonder what SDAs in poor and deprived countries do with their "health" message. As my favorite AOG pastor says, God doesn't have one gospel for us in America, and a second for those in the poorest, remotest parts of Africa. The gospel is the same everywhere, for everyone, for all time. It doesn't change by culture, socio-economic status or space in time. I am absolutely convinced B spends more time reading about "health" than he ever spends reading scripture...and he only listens to those giving a pro-vegetarian message, so if there are legitimate contradictions to what he has chosen to believe, he would never give them credibility. It is just more of the stuff that people get caught up in to take their eyes off Christ. Frankly, the only reason I pay attention to it as much as I do is to be able to talk to my son when he gets old enough to start hearing these things from his dad. I think it is incredibly sad, in reality though. The SDAs I've seen are no different in size and proportion to the rest of the general population. I wonder about the guilt they must live with privately. It sure makes meals a hassle when he's around. You can just feel the disapproval. And the day my 2 year old asked for more chicken (though I hadn't served chicken with his dad there), the silence was almost deafening! What a twisted environment this little child has to deal with! | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 558 Registered: 1-2003 |
My SDA in-laws and my sister-in-law (God bless 'em) spend huge amounts of money on health. They fall for the latest fad...their counters are full, fulldoyouhearme, of supplements. I am not saying some of these supplements aren't beneficial...I actually found one iron supplement that increased my hemoglobin from 10 to 11 in one month with no constipation...all made out of spinach, etc. No animal products. It's called Hemoplex, and it works. But for every ONE that works, how many don't? I know at one point my sister-in-law was on a pygnogenol binge. She gave it to her kids even...and grape seed extract...or is pygnogenol grape seed extract? I can't remember??? One of her kids won't touch dairy of any kind...consequently, he has broken several bones...my kids eat cheese like they are mice and have never had any broken bones. My sister-in-law is obese. She is a strict vegetarian, almost vegan...and her health is terrible. She has the look of future diabetes, by the way she is gaining her weight. I feel sorry for her. I know she is trying to live the Ellen way, but seriously...I think the average SDA diet will kill you. Think about what is presented at potlucks. White flour, pasta, cheese, soybean food, rice. No wonder their digestive tract is sluggish and full...no fiber! Not to mention all the hydrogenated fats used to fry the vege meant and in cooking...why didn't Ellen warn about that? That is the worst thing you can eat and the prophet is silent on this menace!!! Ahhh...ok, I vented. I feel better. I used to try to hide that I wasn't like them...I did raise my kids to be vegetarians and now I have a lot of trouble feeding them all. One son will only eat fish and occasionally a chicken nugget, if really hungry. One daughter will only eat chicken. The other 3 eat anything sold in the meat market with out raising questions of conscience. But they all, every one of them, LOVE vege meat. So I have to drive 30 miles and buy it, or pay a huge amount up here at our grocery. The SDA market discounts it. They love those vege roasts in the pan that take 90-minutes to cook in the oven. Prime steaks, fry chick, wham, big franks...try explaining to your new Non-SDA teacher what "chicky" is! (My son took vege chicken lunch meat...you know in the roll). So I basically have a really hard time cooking to please everyone. Here is a recipe that sounds really wierd but my kids LOVE... Fry a can of vege burger and add taco seasoning and salt. Heat some hot oil and soften corn tortillas (you know 2-3 seconds on each side). Grate Klaussen (refrigerated) pickles on a cheese grater. Grated cheese. To assemble, take a tortilla, add burger, pickles and cheese. A greasy little delight!!!!! It truly is good, I could eat like 4! Help! | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 242 Registered: 3-2005 |
There are so many good points about health brought up by everyone posting above. Diabetes and obesity are becoming more epidemic than ever, and it is mostly due to increasing sugar intake, and to all the refined foods. When I do attend SDA functions, you see people making up for all the meat they don't eat, by stuffing themselves with tons of nutitionally empty carbs! I believe that the South Beach diet, is the healthiest possible diet one can follow, because it balances healthy meat and fish intake with nutritionally rich carbs, rather than with nutritionally empty carbs. Colleen made such an excellent point, about how being right with God spiritually, can be such a boon to health. That is why Paul emphasized spiritual health over physical health. There have been controlled studies showing that those who have faith, are by nature much healthier, due to physiological changes in the body that play on the mind. The SDAs are so proud of their health study, but it could be shown that any group of believing Christians when compared head to head, would live just as long, and be just as healthy as SDAs. In fact, you could probably compare any non smoking group of people and get similar results. Stan | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 621 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yes, Melissa, the "B-12" found in plants (including sea vegetables such as spirulina) is actually a B-12 "analog," which is not really B-12 and cannot be used by our bodies and may actually deplete your body of B-12! Pheeki, I agree, I also think the standard SDA diet will kill you--and a strict EGW diet isn't any better! And those soy meats are very dangerous to your health. I can't believe they think that those highly processed/refined foods with hydrogenated oil are healthier than natural meat that GOD created!! Jeremy | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 560 Registered: 1-2003 |
Jeremy...are there trans fats in the vege food? I know most crackers, chips and cookies have them, but what about vege meat? I quit using Crisco for anything!!!! So if I found out wham, etc. had it I would cut out my kid's beloved vege meat. | ||
| Weimarred Registered user Username: Weimarred Post Number: 56 Registered: 1-2005 |
I have an ex-SDA relative who was and is a vegetarian, and can't tolerate the thought of eating meat. This relative has gout (which I always associated with eating fatty meats), lupis, and a some other health problems. I honestly think the current problems are strongly linked to a bad vegatarian diet, which for a long time was the SDA version, though for several years now has included coffee and other non-SDA approved foods. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 625 Registered: 10-2004 |
Pheeki, I thought they did (but I wasn't sure!), but I just looked at a few Worthington products' ingredients, and the oil they use doesn't say "hydrogenated" so I guess they don't have trans fat. But they are bad enough, anyway, with the textured vegetable protein, soy protein isolate, hydrolyzed soy protein, etc. Jeremy |
