| Author | Message | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 88 Registered: 12-2004 |
My wife and a friend were chatting this evening and wondering what Ellen White was really like. My wife began our journey out of Adventism by searching the internet for what was going on during that time period.Anyway, my wife and a friend were talking this evening and were wanting to know if anyone had ever read what she was like. Was she funny, serious, gruff? What kind of a person was she? | ||
| Yossariana Registered user Username: Yossariana Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2004  |
Goldenbear, if you have time and interested, I recomend you David S. Katz and Richard H. Popkin, "Messianic Revolution: Radical Religious Politics to the End of the Second Millennium", New York: Hill and Wang, 1999. It's a well written and researched book inspired by what happened at Waco in April 1993.  | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1766 Registered: 11-2002 |
I would say that her focus was 'looking out for numoro uno'. I say that because of her will. The White Estate, as I understand will be getting royalities on the works of EGW into perpetutity. She also wrote a letter to her husband that is internet accessable where she says there is yet to be a lot of money to be made by their pens. She also said to not bothering to pray for the ones who have turned their backs on her truth. In the Bible we read that even the heathen love their own families but Jesus said to love and to pray for those who persucate you. EGW said the opposite. I don't knopw where it is but in one place she said that for parents who raised their children in the SDA truth and those children leave the truth those children should be eliminated from the parents wills and the estate should go to the church, the true body of God who promotes truth, something like that. My guess is that her own children and grandchildren were most likly greatly loved by her. That's human nature. BTW, Adloph Hitler was vegetarian. Can we conclude by that that he had ultimate compassion because he didn't slaughteer animals? | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 182 Registered: 7-2000  |
Of course,the SDA myth is that she was "the little old lady with white hair who always spoke so lovingly of Jesus." However, here is a direct quote from D.M. Canright about his experience with Ellen and James: "Wherever Elder White and wife went they were always in trouble with the brethren, and the best ones, too. I came to dread having them come where I was, for I knew there would be trouble with someone or something and it never failed of so being. "I saw church after church split up by them, the best brethren discouraged and maddened and driven off, while I was compelled to apologise for them continually. For years about this time, the main business at our big meetings was to listen to the complaints of Elder White against his brethren. Not a leading man escaped: Andrews, Waggoner, Smith, Loughborough, Amadon, Cornell, Aldrich, and a host of others had to take their turn at being broken on the wheel. "For hours at a time, and times without number, I sat in meetings and heard Elder White and wife denounce these men, till I felt there was little manhood left in them. It violated my ideas of right and justice, and stirred my indignation. Yet whatever vote was asked by Elder White, we voted it unanimously, I with the rest. Then I would go out alone and hate myself for my cowardice, and despise my brethren for their weakness. "Elder and Mrs. White ran and ruled everything. Not a nomination to office, not a resolution, not an item of business was ever acted upon till all had been submitted to Elder White for his approval. Till years later, we never saw an opposition vote on any question, for no one dared. The will of Elder White settled everything. If any one dared to oppose anything, however humbly, Elder White or wife quickly squelched him." (from Canright's 1889 book, Seventh-day Adventism Renounced) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1364 Registered: 3-2004  |
And sadly, the SDA church still does not oppose her and she is dead. The members will misquote the Bible and say "that is not what it means" but will defend EGW and she is not around. That is very sad. Diana | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 183 Registered: 7-2000 |
Ellen White was a plagiarist - a thief. That is a serious sin and a crime. Plagiarism is comparable to breaking into someone's home when they are not there, and taking their cherished possessions, things they made themselves. Ellen White was a liar. She brazenly claimed that the intellectual property of others was really her own, and that God gave it to her directly! When her plagiarism was exposed to the public, she made excuses for it, or blamed it on her staff. Ellen White was a hypocrite. For many years, she did not practice what she preached on many issues such as vegetarianism, unclean meats, wearing of jewelry, and tithing, to name a few. I dare not trust the formation of my beliefs, or my eternal salvation, to the direction of a lying, thieving, hypocrite. Give me Jesus alone, and His infallible Word! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 548 Registered: 10-2004  |
I will add to Bob's list. Ellen White was abusive and an unrepentant murderer. She has caused people to die by her "counsels" about not going to doctors, not taking quinine, diet rules, rules for Santitariums (including for specific cases sometimes), etc. She has also caused depression, mental and emotional problems, and suicide by the whole of her religion, rules, perfection being required for heaven, etc. She also caused her assistant Marian Davis to die and drove her other assistant Fannie Bolton to mental illness, by having them be part of her deception, plagiarism, etc. Once, when Bolton complained about the deception, Ellen got angry at her and slapped her on the face. Once, a woman at an SDA Sanitarium was dying and could not eat anything but chicken broth, and Ellen said she could NOT have chicken broth, although Ellen would eat chicken broth herself and once commented about eating "a good hot chicken broth"! Adding to the part about her being a liar--she would also lie about God telling her stuff when other people told her. Such as the Salamanca vision, etc. Also, adding to her hypocrisy--she did not follow her own instructions regarding photographs, debt and wills. She wanted to purchase (and perhaps did purchase!) a negative of James White that cost about $7,800 in today's money, when she said photographs were a sin and idolatrous! Ellen White was a very greedy person, and a scam artist. She got angry when they wanted to reduce her royalties so they could get more people to buy her books and she told them they had to keep her royalties at a high level. She told people they had to buy her books in order to be saved and to wear out her books so they would have to buy more! She got people to give her money for a "reform dress" pattern which she and the Review sold, and which dress she said the women had to wear or else they would go to hell. Ellen White was a bigot and a racist. This can be documented from her own writings, etc. I may think of more to add later. Jeremy | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 178 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jeremy, Frederick Hoyt at a San Diego SDA forum in Nov.'03 related a story in which EGW was traveling from Australia on a ship, and demanded the best suite for her entourage, and she actually prayed for a storm to hit the ship, because the captain and people wer partying too much, and as the story goes, a storm did hit, and some people were killed. Can you verify this story from your research? Stan | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1757 Registered: 12-2003  |
Bob, thank you for the Canright quotes. Canright was my first thought when I read Goldenbear's question, too. His books (one online and one available from Dale Ratzlaff) were extremely eye-opening. My dad read Canright's book about EGW--Her False Claims Refuted a couple of years before he died. He had suffered from mini-strokes, and his ability to find words to say what he was thinking had diminished. I will never forget walking into their house one day. Dad was reading Canright, but when I came in he put down the book and stood up. (You have to know that my Dad had been a STAUNCH and loyal Adventist until the mid to late-80's.) He gestured toward the book and said, "She was a wicked woman!" Colleen | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 549 Registered: 10-2004 |
Stan, I hadn't heard that story before about the storm, but I have read an account from EGW's own writings about how she had the best room on a ship--according to her diary or whatever, her son Willie had gotten her the best room with every luxury she could ever want, or something like that. I just found the quote on truthorfables.com, and it is from Arthur White's biography:
Wow, I kept reading and Arthur gives the account of EGW being upset with all the partying and how she was praying for a storm, etc. Here are some excerpts:
Notice the occultic ocurrences with the fragrance of flowers, etc. Jeremy | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 180 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jeremy, Wow! Thanks for that!! There it is again, the sweet fragrance of flowers, all the mystical stuff of what New Age imagery is all about. Jeremy, as i have said before, you are our walking EGW encyclopedia! Stan | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 371 Registered: 6-2004 |
Whever I watch the Wizard of Oz, I think of EGW. "I get you my litttle pretty....AND YOUR LITTLE DOG TOO!" | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 400 Registered: 7-2004 |
PW, I also have such a fun time reading your humor. Thanks for sharing your insights. You are special. And as always, Jeremy, you are such a dear to share so much with us! What an incredible account! | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 374 Registered: 6-2004 |
Well, that's good to know as sometimes my sense of humor flies over like a lead balloon. I have to admit that was quite a story Jeremy posted above. The part about the scent of flowers was really odd. My guess, somebody probably sprayed some Glade in the room thinking EGW was laying there for far too long, probably thought she kicked the bucket. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1764 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ha! You make me laugh, Pw! Thanks for sharing that quote, Jeremy. Are the rest of you as overwhelmed as I am that we "bought" Ellen's inspiration for so long, not primarily because of her messages, but because of the phenomena that accompanied them? Her messages were just plain scary, condmening, and sometimes "dorky", but those convincing phenomena... Now when did Isaiah or Ezekiel ever convince the Israelites that God had spoken by recounting tales of fragrances, handsome young men, punishing storms to relieve their own discomfort--when did the Bible prophets EVER have prophecies whose central purpose was their own vindication? Really, in retropsect, it's sort-of embarrassing! We believed Ellen (and were taught to believe in her) primarily because of the phenomenon, not primarily because of the messages. When did her "messages" ever uphold the shed blood of Jesus as central? I've been discovering that while she wrote a lot about "salvation" and judgment, her core messages about God were primarily that He is loving and will be vindicated. The Biblical focus of salvation and judgment are the shed blood of Jesus and His worthiness because He is the Lamb that was slain. Ellen managed to "denature" the entire atonement even though she cleverly wrote words that sound as if she's promoting it. Praise Jesus for being the Lamb slain from the creation of the earth! Colleen | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 320 Registered: 7-2004 |
Actually, you might say that God didn't always treat his prophets well. Hosea became a living statement of the condition between God and the people of Isreal by marrying a whore. Ezekiel became a laughing stock by following God's instructions. He was high priest, yet God had him walk around naked for a period of time, lay on one side for 40 days (ouch), then lay on the other side for another 40 days (double-ouch), he was dropped into a well where he stood in mud up to his waist. Doesn't sound like the best state-room on the ship to me. The prophets of God became living pictures of the relationship between God and His people. I'm having a hard time discerning the message God had for his "latter day" people if Ellen's life was a living example of the relationship God shared with them. Okay, the reform dress she designed and wore for a while was strange and peculiar--peculiar people. Where, pray tell, does the rubber meat come in when it talks about relationship to God? Belva | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 551 Registered: 10-2004 |
And then to find out that the phenomenon was occultic...! Years ago, we heard that my mother's cousin's girlfriend called Ellen White a witch. Now we've found out that she was absolutely correct! No wonder that witch that Susan_2 met loves to read Ellen White's writings! Jeremy | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1371 Registered: 3-2004 |
I am amazed at myself, how I let myself be led by the nose, so to speak, down the road to perdition. But, I have to remember, God had to teach me certain things before I could really give up EGW and the church in which I grew up. Thank You God for leading me all these years, when I thought it was me doing what was different. You are awesome. And Jeremy, Thank you so much for all your research on EGW and your positive influence on the R/S web site. Diana | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 526 Registered: 1-2003 |
And when did any of God's Prophets ever make a profit off of what he told them? | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 527 Registered: 1-2003 |
If Ellen had been sincere, she would have given her books away...or if she couldn't afford to have books made, she would have traveled around and simply spoke what God had told her. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1773 Registered: 12-2003 |
Great point, Pheeki. There are records showing that she struggled with the Review and Herald to protect her royalties when they tried to discontinue paying royalties to their authors because of inability to stay in the black financially. She had no trouble edging out other books to be sure hers got published. Colleen | ||
| Greg Registered user Username: Greg Post Number: 94 Registered: 2-2005 |
I'm sure some of you have seen Ellen White's last will and testament before, but for those who haven't see it here. Notice how every detail concerning the profits from the sale of her books was carefully planned. And here is her counsel to those who would die before her:
Greg | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 532 Registered: 1-2003 |
Oh yes. My mother and her siblings didn't get a dime from their parents...it all went to the SDA church...every cent. But Ellen sure took care of Willie and company! | ||
| Pw Registered user Username: Pw Post Number: 381 Registered: 6-2004 |
How sad. So much for following the Bible and taking care of one's family as the Scriptures teach. |
