| Author | Message | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 157 Registered: 3-2005 |
Jeremy, Both Graham Maxwell and Jack Provonsha denied the substitutionary atonement, and believed in the "Moral Influence" theory of the atonement--That it was just a demonstration of God's love, NOT a payment for sins. These guys taught a whole generation of medical students this heresy. This Dan Smith of La Sierra college that I referred to wrote this book in which he says, The only requirement to get into heaven is to want to go. And if you don't want to go, then don't worry, there is no hell, not even the finite time of suffering in the Lake of Fire, that most SDAs believe in. You just die. And of course he also denies the substitutionary atonement. I find it unbelievable Pacific Press would even publish this stuff. Stan | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 528 Registered: 10-2004  |
I don't find it that unbelievable--they will publish any heresy; just not the truth! The denial of the atonement of Jesus on the cross actually comes from Ellen G. White herself and the other pioneers. Ellen said that what Mr. Crosier taught (that there was NO atonement on the cross) was true light! The teaching that there was no atonement on the cross is actually what the SDA pioneers originally taught--it is historical Adventism! In the following quote, EGW says that Jesus did not need to come to earth in order for us to be saved:
Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on April 05, 2005) | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 292 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jeremy, thanks for that correction. Actually I was up all night typing and by the time I got to the Revelation quotes I was near delirious so I missed that. I also think that when I was in grade school and we were memorizing the three angels' messages that sentence was always tagged onto the end of the 3rd angel's message. You were also correct about me calling the treatment of their best ministers and scholars as evil. I have no problem with the pastor assuming I was speaking of the IJ when I said that. IJ is an evil blasphemous doctrine straight from the pit of hell in my opinion. It presumes that God is forgetful, else why would he have to review the records. It makes necessary all of the other burdensome doctrines like perfection, soul sleep,... I'm once more preaching to the choir. I'm horrified by this doctrine that denies the forensic necessity of the sacrifice of Jesus. They just keep on finding ways to deny their only means of salvation. That doctrine that says that Jesus' purpose of living on earth with us was to show us that it was humanly possible to attain perfection nearly put me in the loony bin. And that, by the time I was 10. I didn't see his perfect life as a blessing then--I saw it as an unmanageable burden. Under the circumstances given, along with all the EGW instructions on how to dress, eat, seek proper entertainment and work...unmanageable burden. On top of that I've known SDA's who were convinced that they had arrived--that they had attained the standard of perfection expected of the people of God for the end time. Their pomposity was nauseating. To a one they had in common a tendency to delight in the failures and discomforts of their fellow brothers and sisters in the Christian walk. The Christians I share my walk with now are kind, full of the fruits of the spirit, and love exudes from their pores like sweet smelling incense. I'm including you, my dear FAF brothers and sisters in this description. We get feisty, thank goodness. I'm feed up with overly pious people. I'm letting the Holy Spirit worry about cleaning me up. I get the distinct impression that he wants me to retain a little of my saltiness. The only doctrine I really need to find that I have a home in heaven is that the righteous, by faith shall live, and oh how we will live. I'm gathering committments from everyone I know who is heaven-bound to meet me at the river for a swimming/wading party in the water of life. I don't think that is presumptious. I can even envision us all having a picnic together there and Jesus showing us a few swim strokes we haven't thought of yet. I'll meet all of you at the river, okay? Belva | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1321 Registered: 3-2004  |
Belva, Thanks for the Bible texts. I started looking them up last night and reading them and no way could I find the IJ in them. AND YES, I WILL MEET YOU BY THE RIVER OF LIFE FOR A PICNIC. I really look forward to that. God you are awesome. Diana | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 40 Registered: 2-2005 |
Diana, When did you graduate from Lynwood Academy? One of my relatives was there around that time, so just curious. Thanks. Heretic | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1322 Registered: 3-2004 |
Heretic, I graduated in the dark ages-1958. Diana | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1734 Registered: 12-2003  |
Jeremy, thanks for the quote-- You're on, Belva--we'll meet at the water! Colleen | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 41 Registered: 2-2005 |
Thanks, Diana. I think my relative was there way before that, so don't feel too old! | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1324 Registered: 3-2004 |
Heretic, I had 3 sisters who attended Lynwood ahead of me. Maybe your relative knew one of them. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 293 Registered: 7-2004 |
Someone needs to put a leash on Walk. Here is his latest: pheeki wrote: The reason Jesus said salvation is of the Jews, is because He is Salvation and came out of the Jewish line of King David. Walk_In_The_Light wrote: Well now, you say He IS salvation and what remains is does He being the embodiment of salvation thereby negate the necessity of a plan of salvation? This is irrational and untrue. There is a plan of salvation for God's remnant. It was given to us through the Bible and the prophet EW. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge, right? A lack of knowledge...think about that for a moment then will you? ----- This is what happens when you go outside the Bible for your information. He needs to stop and do some thinking! Belva | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1325 Registered: 3-2004 |
WOW!! I have said it before and will probably say it again, I did not know that is what the SDA church believes. Thank you God for taking me out of adventism and showing me your truths only from the Bible. You are awesome. Diana | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 294 Registered: 7-2004 |
The post above is just the tip of the iceberg. Walk's really out there in left field, and Colporteur is trying to back him up. It is clear they are both trying to validate the Gospel according to EGW. The things they are saying is so much worse than anything they were saying before we got the gate. It is to be found under Pastor's Desk > Other Denominations, starting on page 3. Please read, but let me warn you, it's hard to stomach. Belva | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1326 Registered: 3-2004 |
I should be in bed, but I was just over to the R/S site and read the "Other Denominations" site. Frankly, I do not understand a word they are saying. It does not make sense. The gospel is so simple, even a child can understand it. So we continue to pray for all the SDAs on the R/S site. Diana | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 531 Registered: 10-2004 |
The SDAs always have to say "the Bible and Ellen White." Don't they ever stop to think that that sounds strange?? I don't think the Jews went around saying "the Scriptures and Malachi"... And Christians don't go around saying "the Bible and Revelation," etc. If she was really an inspired prophet, shouldn't they put her in their "Bible canon"? How can you have equal inspiration for her and the Bible as they claim and not have her have total equality with, be on the same level as, have equal authority as, and be part of, the Bible???!! I never really understood that, and I never will. The lesser light nonsense is just that. Nonsense. It doesn't make any sense. And who needs a flashlight to see the sun, anyway?!?! Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on April 05, 2005) | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 331 Registered: 7-2000 |
I'll meet all of you at the river, okay? Belva ---------------------------------------- Deal............and later we may have a trumpet concert. If I'm lucky, I may get into Gabriels section!  | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 296 Registered: 7-2004 |
Music, I love music. I used to sing. I'll be happy to just listen, but I hope there are music lessons in heaven, too. Belva | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 532 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yikes!! They are getting more and more blasphemous over at RS! Colporteur just wrote: "If you were truly grounded in the truth you would never have given up so much for so little." JESUS is "so little"??! HE is EVERYTHING and HE is our all-in-all!! Praise the Lord Jesus! Jeremy | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 158 Registered: 3-2005 |
What we are dealing with is a completely different gospel from Biblical Christianity. Most of these folks are not Christians! I hope you folks over at R/S read this. Walter Martin said to me clearly, that the only basis that he made the assessment that SDAs were not a cult, is that they convinced him that EGW is not an infallible interpreter of scripture. He said, if he found evidence that the church did elevate her to a status equal with scripture, then he would have to label them a non-Christian cult. He admitted before his death that the SDA church lied to him, and he would have to change his assessment. The SDA church and structure has been built on deception. In fact, the only unique doctrine SDAs have is a fiction, based on some vision reported in a cornfield by Hiram Edson, which was relayed to Ellen White. There is no basis in fact for any of this. It is clear that a certain group who call themselves traditional Adventists over there use Ellen White as their sole authority. It is clearly cultic, and the Pastor himself has made it VERY CLEAR that Ellen White is his final authority. He could care less about any specific scripture we can present to him, and has NEVER answered any specific questions I have had about particular scriptures. I believe it is time to move on, and get off this website, that is clearly cultic, and spend our time on more edifying material. Yes, I hope you folks over at R/S post this message loud and clear, but somehow I think you won't. Stan | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 167 Registered: 7-2000  |
Stan, I praise God for those of you who are called to do battle with the cultists, but I agree with you that if both parties will not agree to rely on the same authority (Holy Scripture alone) for their arugments, it becomes a waste of valuable time. Bob | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 159 Registered: 3-2005 |
And here is a breaking follow-up to what I posted above, and this confirms with absolute certainty what I said above. Pastor O'Ffill, was chiding me about why I was upset with the theology of Maxwell, and Dan Smith that I referred to in previous posts. Pay attention all you at R/S, as here is Pastor O'Ffill's view of the Bible, "You must be aware that those who teach a bloodless atonement also get it from the Bible....IT SEEMS LIKE YOU CAN JUST ABOUT PROVE FROM THE BIBLE THAT WATER FLOWS UPHILL. Did you get that? I just about fell out of my chair when I read this. Folks, it is a sad day indeed when pastors take such a dim view of scripture. Yes, beware all you who might be lurking--This is not the true gospel. Read very carefully Galatians 1:8,9 with its very severe warnings to those who will get their gospel from extra Biblical sources. There is nothing being taught by the Pastor which even comes close to matching the gospel Paul taught. We will be in special prayer for all of you over there. Please study the scriptures like the Bereans, and see if these things be so. In Christian concern, Stan |
