| Author |
Message |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1342
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 08, 2005 - 5:30 pm: |     |
I want to laugh at some things written and cry at others. "No wonder White never smiled, she couldn't say cheese" is what I smile and laught at. The hold adventism has on people is what I want to cry about. So I turn it over to God. He knows what to do to break that demonic hold. Thank God he started breaking that hold on me over 30 years ago. Thank you God, You are awesome.
Diana |
Paulcross
Registered user
Username: Paulcross
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 5:33 am: | |
It is so interesting reading this thread ñ it brought back a statement that was made by a local conference official in this area about five years ago: ìIf we discredit the IJ we [SDA church] have no reason to existî.
This isnít an ìofficialî statement of doctrine of SDAs but it accurately reflects generally held belief. IJ, teaching on the ìremnantî, SOP, and Sabbath doctrine eclipse most everything else.
In a climate where SDA Church members and officials are alarmed and intervene when you question things like the IJ, teaching on the ìremnantî, SOP, and Sabbath doctrine but merely shake their heads and give a shrug if you say that your relationship with Jesus is in crisis, it is small wonder that there is frequent and frantic tweaking of doctrine to make it ìhold togetherî.
IJ is part of the paranoia and insecurity ñ the Gospel brings peace and wholeness. I am so thankful to Him that this ìstuffî is fading .
PaulCross
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Carol_2
Registered user
Username: Carol_2
Post Number: 290
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 5:51 am: | |
Welcome Paulcross! We're glad you have joined in the discussion, and look forward to knowing you better. |
Lisa_boyldavis
Registered user
Username: Lisa_boyldavis
Post Number: 45
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 8:17 am: | |
Paulcross,
If the distinctive changed, it wouldn't be the SDA church anymore, it would just be another God fearing Christian Church. That isn't ok with the GC or anyone else needing SDA's to be the remnant, to have "the truth" etc... It's a painful leap when God asks you to make it, but it's awesome to say YES. God is so good and powerful, He fills all the gaps that leaving entails and places you just were He wants you to be. Many of us have written letter after letter, done one thing or another to frantically attempt to see changes occur within the church, only to realize in the end that this leadership has no intention on making the changes but rather fortifying the old, the lies, the toxic beliefs. Yes, there are professors and pastors, etc... who agree with us, well, king of, with lots of twists and turns to put the two opposing worlds together, but they have no control.
Well, anyway, WELCOME. And God Be With You.
Lisa
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Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 396
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 8:36 am: | |
Welcome Paul C, I am looking forward to becoming better aquainted. Grace and peace to you! |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1348
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 9:43 am: | |
Welcome Paul C. Glad you are here.
Diana |
Riverfonz
Registered user
Username: Riverfonz
Post Number: 172
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 12:34 pm: | |
And I will add my welcome Paul. It is great to see the ever increasing number of new formers. Stan |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1759
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 11:48 pm: | |
Who is John Osborn? Is he kin to Ozzy? Welcome, Paul. One more thing, were any of you others as kids in SDA schools and in SS exposed to those horrible visuals? They were pictures on poster sized pages that were held on a board and then one picture would be turned over to the next picture and so on? They were a pictorial of the IJ. There was one picture that seemed to be my 5th grade teachers favorite. It was of the ever faithful SDA's fleeing from the Catholics and other Sunday-keepers. The faithful SDA's were fleeing to the mountains hoping to be able to outrun the evil non-SDA's who were Christians but we were taught they really weren't Christians but they didn't know they weren't Christian but that only the SDA's were real Christians. That's why we had to fear the Catholics and Sunday-keepers because they thought they were Christians. We didn't need to fear the Hindus and Buddhists and Moslems and Jews because they know they aren't Christians so they wouldn't hold it against the SDA's for being Sabbath-keepers because those people didn't know the differebnce between the real Christians (the SDA's) and the anti-Christians (all Sunday-keeping Christians). I tried to explain this recently to a Lutherawn minister. Poor fellow! I think I gave him a head spin. He said there was nothing like that in the Bible. He also said he fully believed my explaniation. And, it is head-spinning stuff! |
Esther
Registered user
Username: Esther
Post Number: 201
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 6:07 am: | |
Welcome to the Forum Paul! Can't wait to get to know you better. I praise God that He has brought you here!
Susan, it's always great to see you around when you can! I always love your stories  |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1357
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 10:14 am: | |
Susan,
It has been so long ago, but my mind is dredging up those posters. Thank God he pushed them to the back of my memory and they are only resurrected when you or someone else talks about it. They do not scare me any more. Thank you God.
Diana |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1759
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 9:06 pm: | |
Welcome, PaulCross! We're looking forward to hearing your story and your insights. We're glad you're here.
Colleen |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 372
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 8:46 am: | |
Susan, is there any way to find that photo of the fleeing SDA's? That is totally bizarre. I'm glad I wasn't exposed to that image during my short term brain-washing stint. Talk about a fear tactic. |
Tdf
Registered user
Username: Tdf
Post Number: 68
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 6:38 am: | |
Susan,
John Osborne was an Adventist pastor who, in the 1980s, felt called to purify the SDA church. Did he pursue this by seeking to expose the errors contained in the IJ? No, sadly, he felt that the SDA church was far too liberal and was not adhering to the historical teachings of the SDA church. He particularly fought against the "celebration movement" that was characterized by a more open minded approach to worship (contemporary music, inclusion of drama in services, audio-visual elements, etc.). He wasn't alone. During that period, many independent ministries were calling for the SDA church to return to its historic roots (i.e. Hartland Institute, Our Firm Foundation, etc.). John Osborne started his own church in Florida and I believe he was eventually disfellowshipped. However, in the 1990s, he recanted and was restored to Adventist membership. |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 529
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 9:01 am: | |
I used to listen to his tapes over and over for hours. This was in my Ellen White phase. He caused me to really get into HER, not CHRIST! |
Tisha
Registered user
Username: Tisha
Post Number: 28
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 2:20 pm: | |
I too saw the dysfunction of those SDA's that took it to the extreme. My first husband's family (Parents, Aunts, Uncles, Cousins, etc)renounced the SDA Church because it had become part of "Babylon". They formed a commune in the hills and were self-sufficient, ready for the "end times".
When we were first married we went to live with them for awhile. I could never understand their extremism. They thought I was a very lost person. Anything my husband did that they thought was wrong they blamed on me. They "counseled" me constantly on my dress, food, and anything else where I wouldn't conform. I was so glad when we left and moved far away!
But over time, those relatives became more and more unbalanced. There was divorce, abuse, rape, incest, murder, drugs, prison, suicides, etc. amongst them, even down several generations. It is so sad that they just lost touch with reality. Of course, everyone else was wrong - they had the "truth". EGW was their god. I never heard them refer to the Bible, only EGW. The harder they worked the worse they got!
Even my husband (now ex) finally succumbed to that dysfunctional upbringing. When he left us, his family disowned me. My children are now seeing the results of such fanaticism.
I pray that I can be an example to them so that they can see the difference that knowing Jesus makes. They see their dad and his side of the family and what their religion of works has done for them. Then they see my family - my Mom, my Husband, and I - who have left the SDA church and have found true JOY and PEACE trusting in Jesus instead of works. The difference is like night and day!
Praise the Lord that I found the courage to leave that false doctrine behind. I keep my children and grandaughter in my prayers that they may come to know and trust in Jesus alone. |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 533
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - 8:23 am: | |
I have seen more mental illness in Keene, Texas than inner city D/FW. I knew some brothers down there who were always in and out of the SDA church. One of them climbed the radio tower in Keene and was shouting, "The latter rain is falling!" He was in and out of rehabs, etc. Both he and his brother are dead now (they were in their 40's) and at least one of them was a confirmed suicide and the other suspected suicide. I really feel for the parent's...former missionaries and an SDA pastor. So what went wrong? C-R-A-Z-Y!
Then there is my mom's friend Suzy. Crazy as a bedbug. She thinks Jesuits are in the SDA church and they drive black Suburbans and follow her. She was trying to decide if she should move back into town at Keene and when she was driving there she saw a black man driving past her and decided that was a message from God that if she moved back to Keene she would become a slave.
Then one day (when she lived with my mom) one of my kids left a guitar and a fork by the door...she went to my mom and said, "Are you trying to tell me I have to sing for my supper or leave?" C-R-A-Z-Y.
Then there was my in-laws friends in California whose son killed himself and left a suicide note telling his parents he just couldn't be perfect. He had tried and tried and couldn't live up to Ellen's standards. My in-laws said, "Well, they (the parents) didn't present Ellen in the correct light to him." C-R-A-Z-Y!
Then there is the guy I encountered about the time I was really into Osbourne who would stand at the grocery store front door every Friday, (when people did most of their shopping for Sabbath)and he had a beard down to his belly and wore overalls and would stop me (cause I was not rude to him) and talk to me and try to convince me not to clap in church or celebrate and that we need to get back to our "roots" and he is building a time of trouble house in the Arkansas mountains, etc. C-R-A-Z-Y!
Then there is all the drug/alcohol abuse, etc. In the words of the 80's band, the Cars..."It takes a fast car to lead a double life!" I think it leads to madness!
I blame the SDA church and Ellen for all of these people's problems. Maybe that is wrong but I can't help but feel that way! Jesus warned "By their fruit you will know them!" |
Bob
Registered user
Username: Bob
Post Number: 194
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - 7:39 pm: | |
Pheeki, I suppose it could be argued that this is one of those "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" issues.
Some years ago, I read a book by a psychologist titled "Neurotics In The Church." The author was not SDA. He addressed the fact that some unbalanced people will be attracted to religion as their favorite venue for acting out their quirks. If you look, you can find them in every denomination.
On the other hand, I think some of the teachings of Adventism are a particularly appealing "welcome mat" at the door of the church, inviting people with serious psychological deficits! One can be fairly "strange" and still fit right in as a "dedicated SDA." |
Dennis
Registered user
Username: Dennis
Post Number: 364
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 7:52 pm: | |
Bob,
In the mid-1960s, I attended a weekend literature evangelist rally at the Minnesota Conference Youth Camp. We were assigned to various cabins upon arrival. Unfortunately, the colporteur near my bunk seemed very strange to me. I felt so uncomfortable with his presence that I decided keep my wallet under my pillow while I was sleeping.
Yes, I agree that "one can be fairy strange and still fit in as a dedicated SDA." I can think of countless other incidents and stories that validate your statement.
Dennis Fischer |
Bob
Registered user
Username: Bob
Post Number: 196
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 8:57 pm: | |
There were certainly a lot of "strange fish in the SDA aquarium" in Ohio, where I grew up and where I attended academy.
Bob |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 567
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 9:27 pm: | |
I don't think it's just the SDA cult attracting strange people, either. I think that people who grow up SDA are often..."strange," also--in other words, SDAism can itself produce various kinds of odd people, I believe.
Jeremy |
Pw
Registered user
Username: Pw
Post Number: 391
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 5:48 am: | |
"People Are Strange" by The Doors could be a tribute song for the SDA, JW's & LDS. |
Greg
Registered user
Username: Greg
Post Number: 101
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 7:32 am: | |
A while back, I was in an Adventist church when an obviously mentally ill fellow wandered in during the Sabbath school. He muttered "I am God!" several times, and said "vengeance is mine!" also. Trying to settle him down a bit afterword, I engaged him in conversation. Most interestingly, he started to tell me about how he was an avid reader of Ellen White's books, and that the judgment began in 1844, and that the Adventist church has now been "sealed", after the judgment of the church concluded in 1996. He told me that he (because he is God) had sent Doug Batchelor to tell people about the judgment. He said that since it is now sealed, the Adventist church is full of dead people. He must have referred about five times to the pastor, who had apparently already been judged and "found wanting", because he kept saying "Too little, too late..." He then asked me if I knew what amalgamation was. He said it was prophesied by EGW that people would soon be demanding their rights to marry animals, like they are demanding to be married to members of the same gender.
I left that experience profoundly saddened, first for the mental illness of this young man, but second, that EGW and the Adventist doctrine had been twisted up in his mind, further contributing to his illness.
I couldn't help but think that if he had been a little more functional, he might have had people lining up to hear his "prophecies".
Greg |
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