| Author | Message | ||
| Freedom55 Registered user Username: Freedom55 Post Number: 109 Registered: 3-2008 |
The following is a post I made on the Spectrum website in response to an article on the SS lesson a couple of weeks back. It’s certainly not a scholarly response but I get so frustrated when SDA’s cling to clearly false teachings. I’m sure you have addressed this topic before with better arguments, but I just had to vent!  “Let’s be clear. In DANIEL 10, Michael is referred to as “one of the chief princes (or archangels)” so obviously this can’t be Jesus since if he is only one of many then he is not God’s one and only Son. The name MICHAEL means “who is like God?”. Jesus is not “like” God, he is God! In Colossians 2 it says that in him (Jesus) dwells the fullness of the Godhead (Diety) bodily. In Hebrews 1 we are told that Jesus is far greater than the angels. If we say that Michael is Jesus then we fall into the same league as the JW’s and the Mormons. Michael is not Jesus. He is an archangel, a messenger from God and according to Hebrews 1, angels are servants sent to care for us. Jesus came to save us. He is, in the words of Isaiah, the Wonderful Counsellor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. We do not worship an angel, we worship the Creator God. Whoever said that Jesus is Michael got it wrong and the sooner we own up to that the better.“ | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 809 Registered: 2-2003  |
Fair points. | ||
| Leifl Registered user Username: Leifl Post Number: 234 Registered: 3-2014  |
Read Jude. Jesus is referred to as "Lord" by Jude in verses 4, 14, 17, 21 and 24. Now read verse 9: But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” Michael rebuked Satan, not his own name or authority, but in the name and authority of the Lord Jesus. All 6 "Lords" in Jude refer to the same person, the Lord Jesus Christ. Michael is a being of a lower order. | ||
| Leifl Registered user Username: Leifl Post Number: 235 Registered: 3-2014 |
P.S. I realize that the Son of God did not have the name "Jesus/Joshua" prior to his incarnation. He was called Jesus at the time of his incarnation because he would save his people from their sins. However, Michael reproved the devil by the authority of the Son of God, who is the Lord. Michael is not the Lord; the text plainly says that he is an archangel. How someone could confuse an angel with the Lord (to who is due "glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever" v. 25) is incomprehensible. (Message edited by leifl on March 22, 2020) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 15604 Registered: 12-2003  |
So TRUE! The teaching that Jesus and Michael are the same is buried inside Adventist doctrine, but it is still there. It's interesting that the subject elicits anger and defensiveness when we talk about it with Adventists. There is, inside Adventist doctrine and its worldview, the stubborn clinging to the idea that Jesus is not God Almighty. They want and need Jesus to be fallible, limited, not-quite-God-in-the-flesh. It's surprising to me that they push back so hard when confronted with the idea that angels are created beings, but Jesus is Creator, Almighty, Eternal God. The founding Arianism shows its head when this subject comes up. Colleen | ||
| Freedom55 Registered user Username: Freedom55 Post Number: 110 Registered: 3-2008 |
Thanks Leifl, for pointing that out from Jude. Makes it very clear indeed. The biggest problem I have with the SDA teaching that Michael is Jesus is that it makes Jesus out to be a lesser god when in fact he has been given a name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord! | ||
| Leifl Registered user Username: Leifl Post Number: 236 Registered: 3-2014 |
Freedom55: You are correct. Jesus is not lord. He is Lord. Or, even more correctly, the LORD. Thus the writer of Hebrews quotes this as referring to Jesus: “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.” Psalm 102 is referring to the LORD/Yahweh as creator of heaven and earth, who is our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. The Scriptures don't record Michael as Creator, he is an exalted and powerful being to be sure, but he was created by the Son of God just like the rest of the angels. (Message edited by leifl on March 29, 2020) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 15605 Registered: 12-2003 |
Interestingly, Michael the Archangel is an object of worship among New Age devotees. Doreen Virtue is a Christian who used to be a well-known New Age advisor with a YouTube channel. I heard her interviewed on a Christian podcast, and she stated that she used to worship Michael. This Michael tradition is old, apparently, and comes from pagan roots. It's very telling to me that EGW adopted this belief. Colleen | ||
| Leifl Registered user Username: Leifl Post Number: 237 Registered: 3-2014 |
Colossians 2:18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and WORSHIP OF ANGELS, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 442 Registered: 5-2011  |
Jesus is not ONE of the chief princes! Jesus is chief of all the princes! He is the King of Kings! Jude 1:9 reads: But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Why would Michael say "The Lord rebuke you" if he was Jesus? |
