| Author | Message | ||
| Max |
Which day are we supposed to keep as the Sabbath? by Billy Graham The observance of the "Sabbath," the seventh day, was given to the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai by the Lord as part of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:8-11; Deuteronomy 5:12-15). The Sabbath was to be a sign of God's covenant with Israel, a day of rest from labor, and a memorial of God's great acts of creation and deliverance. The Sabbath was a good gift of God to Israel, but it was also enforced very strictly, the penalty for deliberately doing unnecessary work on that day being death (Exodus 35:2-3; Numbers 15:32-36). When God raised Christ from the dead in power and glory on the first day of the week, the followers of Christ were led to honor Him and the resurrection on the first day of the week. Scriptural warrant for giving special worship and honor to Christ on the first day of the week, the "Lord's Day," is found in Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Revelation 1:10. Many Christians and churches believe that worshiping and serving Christ on Sunday in commemoration of His resurrection completely fulfills the requirement of the Fourth Commandment. In this understanding, the Sabbath has been changed from the seventh day of the week to the first day because of Christ's resurrection. It is now a memorial of God's new covenant and His greater spiritual creation and deliverance of the church from sin and death. Other Christians and churches worship on Sunday but do not believe that Sunday is a Christian Sabbath based on the Fourth Commandment. They believe that the Sabbath commandment is no longer binding upon Christians, since there was no restatement of it for Christians in the New Testament. They rather turn to Paul's admonition in Colossians 2:16-17, "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." In commenting on the Fourth Commandment, Mr. Graham says, "We are to have a day that we come apart to worship God. It's a special day set apart for that purpose." In any case, all Christians would agree that our faith is not limited to a day, nor are we saved by being obedient to the rules of a certain day. We are saved through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; see Ephesians 2:8-9. After we receive Christ as Savior, we have God's love poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit" (Romans 5:5, NKJV), and we desire to worship and serve Him every day of the week. Source: Spiritual Help: My Answer Billy Grahamís Web Site http://www.graham-assn.org/spiritualhelp/ans wers.asp?show=oneq&rside=search&sterm= Sabbath&q=24 | ||
| Max |
If the above address doesn't work, try this one: http://www.billygraham.org/home/ Then search for "sabbath" | ||
| Cindy |
Wow, that rumor of Billy Graham keeping the "seventh-day Sabbath" either secretly, or just waiting for the right time to start preaching it, has been around a LONG time! It's a case where the God- blessed ministry of Billy Graham has been evident--and yet HOW could he not believe in the continued validity and holiness of the Fourth commandment Sabbath day!? It is a mystery to many sincere, grace-oriented Adventists (not those legalistic "historic" ones who just quickly write Billy Graham off as belonging to the Devil because he "keeps" Sunday). It is baffling as to WHY Billy doesn't "see" this "truth"! Many feel that honest-seeking preachers like Billy Graham will finally see this "testing truth" when the Sunday laws begin to be passed. Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Max |
"Honest-seeking" but not "honest-finding"? | ||
| Max |
Cindy, To answer your question, if Billy Graham secretly believes that Sabbath-keeping is a requirement for salvation, then this statement from his web site would be a lie: ^^Christians would agree that our faith is not limited to a day, nor are we saved by being obedient to the rules of a certain day. We are saved through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; see Ephesians 2:8-9. After we receive Christ as Savior, we have God's love poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit" (Romans 5:5, NKJV), and we desire to worship and serve Him every day of the week.^^ And so -- in addition to not letting his light shine concerning the Sabbath -- is Billy Graham now a liar as well? Is that what our friends the Adventists would say of his statement just quoted? | ||
| Allenette |
Billy Graham keeping the 7th day Sabbath is an SDA urban legend. I cant give authorship to the original claim, but, down thru the years, SDA pastors have claimed that, Billy Graham was "given the SDA message" (prob in the late 50's) and so...has no excuse for his theological position. Personally I think he's a pretty attractive celebrity (Seems I've always been attracted to older men..my hubby included gggg) but being a PK, dont trust him much. My hubby of 18+ years, tells me how he helped build B.G.'s compound in North Carolina, and tells me of seeing him arrive there in his limo, with women inside. Now, trust me, I know this doesnt jive with his very carefully cultivated over the last 50 years, pious image, and I used to tell my hubby same. In fact, since I kinda have female sympathies towards this icon, I suggested that it MUST've been Billy jr. My main squeeze has insisted for nearly 2 decades that he knows the diff between father and son, age being the diff. WDYT? Try to be objective. :-) And...remember, some of us have been in the position to know whereof we speak. :-) | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Allenette, To fall is human?;-) Well, you always have thought provoking posts. Whether or not the above is true, you have to alway keep in mind that very visible people have some really hard lives to hold together. Whether it's a non-christian or a Christian, the devil see's them as BIG targets. Some gals can really make themselves obnoxiously appealing to the most devout Christian or non-christian. Just because a person is a Christian doesn't mean they always use the Holy Spirit as their protection etc. This is a case where one has to wonder if a person is using the "handle" of Christian as a license to sin. People that have not been taught the gospel in a "healthy" manner can easily use Christianity as that license to sin. (the roles can just as easily be reversed to males tempting females!!!!) I guess the reason I'm so adamant about this is because I was originally presented the gospel in an un-healthy manner and used it as a license to sin! What ever the case, what is in the heart of anyone and their relationship with God is between them and God. So, that was my answer to your, WDYT. I still don't have my 'puter going with the MSN thingy;-(( Maryann PS....Thank you mucho much for your post!!!!!! You just cleared up something in my mind that I will get to at some other time:):):):):):):)!!! | ||
| Maryann |
As to the Sabbath - Sunday thing. A friend of mine that was tight with Venden (sp?) said that Billy Graham was convinced that the Sabbath was the right day. But, he continued to teach and preach as he did because he could get more people to commit to the Lord as Sunday keepers and God would continue their growth with someone else and they could have the choice to become Sabbath keepers. Their continued growth was obviously to come from an SDA! Maryann | ||
| Max |
And so the venerable Billy Graham is not only a liar and a womanizer. He's a Sabbath-breaker too? And in the name of winning people to Christ, no less? All so that some sweet day he can turn all of his converts into Seventh-day Adventists. The mind boggleth full sore! And if the above gossip turns out to be true, will Billy Graham, having preached to others, turn out himself to be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27)? Remind me NEVER to listen to the so-called "good reverend" ever again! I'm TOTALLY disillusioned! | ||
| Max |
A sobering thought just occurred: Billy Graham's converts must number in the millions, if not tens of millions. Therefore, when he turns all of these folks into Seventh-day Adventists, won't the prophecy of Ellen G. White come true: "the final movements will be rapid ones"? | ||
| Max |
The above conjecture is based on the fact that a goodly percentage of Billy Graham's converts have had the chance to reproduce for one, or in many cases, two generations by now. Sort of like the way Adam and Eve reproduced to "fill the earth" by the time of the Flood. And so a mathematical algorithm can be fashioned to calculate the number of offspring who stayed "true" to Billy's gospel. | ||
| Max |
Correction: Billy's lying, womanizing, Sabbath-breaking "gospel." | ||
| Allenette |
Well, if you must bring up Morris Venden, check out the now-archived Venden thread on Atoday forum. Talk about feet of clay!!! (well, not actually his FEET ggg) Dont mean to turn this into a gossip column, just pointing out something I've learned in my old age: things are SELDOM what they seem ;-) | ||
| Christianbiker |
I am puzzled why one would feel the need to bring out dirt about others unless it is purely to point out that God's wonderful grace extends even to so called "important public " people as well as to us. Perhaps we tend to elevate Mr. Grahm to heights that are not healthy. Surely we don't look to Billy for salvation. If indeed it happened as was suggested, it only shows me he is human and I must focus on Jesus Christ whom he(Billy) proclaims clearly and loudly. Regarding Billy's comment on the Sabbath, it really makes no difference to me which day he worships on as long as he is resting in Jesus Christ for his salvation. I don't agree with those who claim the Sabbath was transfered to Sunday because of Christs ressurection, neither do I now agree with those who insist that the (Saturday)Sabbath is the day we must worship on. I agree with Paul who said let each be convinced in his own mind. If you choose to worship corporately on Tues. or Thur...it makes no difference to me as long as you are truly "resting in Christ" continually for you salvation and trusting the Holy Spirit within you to guide you, convict you, what to do in every situation. I suggest that "New Covenant" Christians desire to continually worship God 7 days a week and choose to assemble togother with other followers of Jesus when they can to encourage each other and Praise God together. We really need a paradyme(spelling?)shift in this whole business of what church is all about. That's my 2-bits worth this Saturday morning. And yes I am an ex-pastor in the SDA church who is discovering the joy and freedom of God's Grace. Blessings you'all. | ||
| Max |
Blessings to you, Christian Biker! Yes, we have scriptural permission to keep any day of the the week or month or year holy or to observe "all days alike." I don't believe the allegations against Billy Graham's sexual fidelity to his wife: they lack credibility. Venden's is another story. But even that saga I'm letting the God who's in charge handle, not me. Jesus told Peter concerning John: What is that [whether he lives till Christ returns or not] to thee? Follow thou me. Max of the Cross | ||
| Cindy |
Christianbiker, Thanks for your words... Yes, God's All-Surpassing Grace extends to all! I am continually humbled and reminded of my equality with those who commit "outward, noticable sins". My "sins of the heart" are so damaging to my spirit and to my feeling of an intimacy with God. I thank Him so much for His covering grace and assurance that I am always His...and He is mine. Even when I don't "feel" like this is true. Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Allenette |
Dear Christian biker: if you are who you say you are, (A former SDA pastor) and I realize there have been a lot of changes in SDA down thru the past 50 years....I cant imagine why you are "so surprised" about anything that former members would be interested in....if you left SDA or any other denom for hypocritical reasons, and you were schooled in "the message", then you should have some pretty good insights into that alt.culture. So far, all you've done is become a "praiser"....IMHO, as a PK and familiar with the doctrinisms...I dont have as much of a problem with "praisers" as I do with the non-thinking types. BTW I dont like being critical so much as I think it might be useful in this society of non-critical thinking....religious or otherwise. The baffle them with BS theory is alive and well on some websites. Max, I must say you waffle too much....brutha :-) You are trying to become everything to everyone and that is Communist-thinking...never mind the religious part....whoa look out for the incoming, if there are any philosophical people on here as opposed to heavenly-mindeds. Well, if there are, they havent showed up yet gggg peace. | ||
| Max |
NIV Romans 11:13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. | ||
| Max |
NIV 1 Corinthians 9:16 ....when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, for I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. 18 What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make use of my rights in preaching it. 19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings. | ||
| Max |
NIV Acts 2:44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts. |
