| Author | Message | ||
| Leifl Registered user Username: Leifl Post Number: 75 Registered: 3-2014  |
I wrote this as I did some examination of biblical anthropology, monism/dichotomism/trichitomism and a survey of biblical data regarding the state of man after death: http://youarecompleteinhim.com/2014/12/12/examining-soul-sleep/ | ||
| Jonvil Registered user Username: Jonvil Post Number: 691 Registered: 4-2007 |
Just speaking for myself... Because I have assurance of salvation and am in God's hands, I am not the least bit concerned to what happens to me at death, I will have a definitive answer when I drop dead! Having said that, I have no problem with being asleep ('all' of me) as a condition of my death because I will have no sense of the passing of time: I die and (immediately) awake to witness our Saviors return. "This He said, and after that He *said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep." The disciples then said to Him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep. So Jesus then said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead," John 11:11-14 (NASB) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14998 Registered: 12-2003  |
Interesting article Leifl. If we look at what happened to Jesus, we will see what happens to us when we die and are resurrected. He told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in Paradise that day, and He committed His spirit to God as He died. His body lay in the grave, but by His own statements we know that He, the essence of the Lord Jesus—His spirit–went to His Father. When He rose from death, His body was an eternal, resurrection body—a body that Paul calls, in 1 Cor 15, a "spiritual" body. That resurrected body operated differently in some ways than our mortal bodies do: He could appear among them without using doors. Nevertheless, He was physical: they touched Him, and He ate (and we know He ate fish in His resurrection body!) What happened to Jesus is the model of what happens to us. Add to this reality the texts Paul gives about what happens to believers at death, especially Phil. 1:22-23 and 2 Cor. 5:1-10, we have a good picture of of the reality that we are never separated from God when we are His. It's so amazing! Colleen | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 392 Registered: 4-2014 |
Soul Sleep is a very hold heresy that was condemned by some of the earliest Church Councils: http://www.pmiministries.com/soul_sleep.htm | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1630 Registered: 2-2011  |
Resjudicata~ Thank-you for posting this link regarding the heresy of "Soul Sleep"~ ~mj~ | ||
| Capross Registered user Username: Capross Post Number: 119 Registered: 7-2012 |
I was studying the scripture last night. It seems to me that the following two verses make it very clear. We have a soul and our soul lives after our body dies. Mark 12:26New International Version (NIV) 26 Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[a]? Mark 12:27New International Version (NIV) 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!” | ||
| Leifl Registered user Username: Leifl Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2014 |
Colleen: thanks for your comment. The article I wrote largely concerns the "intermediate state"; I am in agreement with you regarding the resurrection. What is your view of the "unclothed" state between death and resurrection? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 15004 Registered: 12-2003 |
We are not told anything specific, but since Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, I believe that in some way our spirits are "clothed" in Christ during the intermediate state. Romans 8 states that nothing, not even death, can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus, and if our spirits go to Him and that condition is "very much better" (Phil. 1:22-23), somehow He Himself keeps us in Him, comforted by His love. I believe Paul said we do not wish to be "unclothed" because death is a painful process, and the intended condition of a human is to be physical beings with spirits. We were created to be spirit-beings inhabiting physical bodies. For the body and the spirit to be separated is to be dead. We are not complete without our bodies. Nevertheless, our Lord keeps our identities, our spirits, safely in Him when we die. Colleen | ||
| Goldcityboy7 Registered user Username: Goldcityboy7 Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2015 |
I was taught in the church that the spirit is just a persons breath but these arguments disprove that easily. John 4:24 says God is Spirit. This doesn't mean God is breath. He's powerful. He has emotions. He speaks and so on. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 15043 Registered: 12-2003 |
Exactly, Goldcityboy. Making the human spirit to be merely breath changes the nature of sin and of salvation, not mention of the incarnate Lord Jesus Himself. Colleen | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1657 Registered: 2-2011 |
The longer I am out of adventism the more I believe that the 'LIE' of, "...the human spirit to be merely breath..." is the adventists most pernicious 'LIE'!, that was told to Ellen G. White, by the 'Father of Lies', himself, Lucifer! For indeed, this 'Lie' does change everything about the 'Truth' of sin, salvation, and the, "incarnate Lord Jesus Himself!" ~mj~ | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 15045 Registered: 12-2003 |
MJ—I agree with you. Richard and I have both come to that same conclusion the longer we've worked with exiting Adventists. For Adventists to believe that humans have no spirit but breath or "life force" akin to an electric current makes it impossible for them to properly understand the nature of their depravity and sin, the reality and process of salvation, and—most important of all—the true nature of Christ. The "no spirit" heresy twists everything, and it does come from the pit of hell. You are SO right, MJ! Colleen | ||
| Mainexile Registered user Username: Mainexile Post Number: 188 Registered: 6-2008  |
Thanks for posting the link Resjudicata> "The phrase “soul sleep” per se is not a Scriptural term. In fact, you never find the soul linked to sleep anywhere in the Bible. It is actually a hybrid heterodoxy contrived from the Biblical euphemism for the sleep-like appearance of the body at death (2 Sam. 7:12; 2 Pet. 3:4) which has been hijacked by heretics." That's a great statement! | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 411 Registered: 4-2014 |
Mainexile, Ellen never knew a heresy that she didn't like. At one time or another, Adventism has propagated nearly all of the ancient heresies. And Ellen's endorsement of the monstrous Albigensian Heresy in The Great Controversy - all by itself - disqualifies Adventism from calling itself a legitimate Christian Church. | ||
| Sallyb Registered user Username: Sallyb Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2013 |
Soul sleep is a necessary consequence of the Investigative Judgment and that Jesus did not apply His blood when Hebrews 9:12 said He did. Without the blood applied, then there was no justification for those who died. Paul had every confidence that He would be with Jesus when he died and if we have that sort of New Testament faith, it makes sense that because He is with us, He takes us to be with Him because we have already passed from death to life. If we are alive which the Bible states that all in Christ are alive as Christ promised, then the second part of Christ's promise must be true, that we will be where He is. He is I AM. If we are alive, then we ARE, present tense, like the thief who was "this day with Me in paradise". If we have been made alive with Christ by receiving Him in our hearts, then death, where is thy sting, where is thy victory? Is it joy to go to be in the presence of our Lord or to stay in a corpse which continues to rot, even if you are asleep while you are doing it? Clearly if God decides He doesn't want you, then He has the time to keep you out of heaven. The one who plots to thwart our Lord's salvation is not Jesus, it is Satan. Paul saw believers sitting in heavenly places with Christ Jesus as Paul had been likely killed at some points and had what we'd call, out of the body experiences similar to John's but Paul was not allowed to write about it fully. Clearly outside of the body is also outside of the realm of time in which we are also together with all other believers. It is a mystery because it does not describe yet our full experience, but it shall be. |
