| Author | Message | ||
| Katarain Registered user Username: Katarain Post Number: 163 Registered: 1-2012 |
UGH! I have enjoyed listening to the youtube videos that Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort put out, from their ministries "The Way of the Master" and "Living Waters University," but this latest one just really irks me. I had read a chastisement of their videos online which claimed that they preached a works-based gospel, and now I think it's really true. I just wish there was a way to talk back and respond to what they're saying. Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyEtMRZROLo&feature=g-vrec They don't talk much about the Sabbath, just that we are supposed to keep it. The videos are interesting, even though what they say to people is very scripted. Usually, I look at their videos as using the law in the way that it's supposed to be used--to show people their sin. And they point out that Jesus Christ came to save them from their sins. And yes, you're supposed to turn from your sins, but videos like this one really show me that many non-SDA churches don't understand the Sabbath either. Unless we're the ones who got it wrong and we're supposed to be keeping the Sabbath, too--Not to be saved, but just in obedience to God. I don't really believe that, but if we have to keep a day, it's going to be Saturday, so I really don't like to hear from mainstream Christianity that I'm supposed to keep the Sabbath. Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt! It reminds me of some talk I heard on another forum where an Adventist was promoting the idea of the "Gospel Sabbath." The only way to break the gospel sabbath, he said, was to try to keep it in the old way. You can work on the gospel Sabbath. I got the idea that anything goes. I never really got to the part about how you're supposed to keep it. The idea was based on how Jesus kept the Sabbath. This gospel sabbath was definitely on Saturday, not Sunday, but I am not sure what made it special. Maybe because you're supposed to go to church. *sigh* | ||
| Colossians2v8 Registered user Username: Colossians2v8 Post Number: 105 Registered: 4-2012 |
My impression is the Sabbath is supposed to be every day, and we're always working for good in Christ Jesus, Who is our Sabbath rest  I'd fish around more before decided they're preaching a works-based gospel, a lot of people especially evangelicals do not really think about that part of it, and do not have a developed belief on it, they know we're supposed to do good, they know we do not have a license to sin and they know what the bible says about turning the grace of God into lasciviousness so if they believe they're encountered a Christian in name only who delights in sin, they'll get very fervent (but not very strategic) in their teaching. People without a fully developed theology in their heads can easily contradict themselves while having the best of intentions. Christ Jesus is heart IMHO, you don't need to develop a theology, just believe on Him and let the Holy Spirit guide you. | ||
| Colossians2v8 Registered user Username: Colossians2v8 Post Number: 106 Registered: 4-2012 |
Excuse me while I untie the knots in my fingers. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2645 Registered: 7-2007 |
All the Sabbaths are a shadow of Jesus - per Colossians 2:16-17. The Bible says in Jeremiah 31:31-32 that God would bring in a New Covenant, not like the Old one. Hebrews 8:13 confirms that the Old one is obsolete and Hebrews 9:16-18 tells about how Jesus brought in the New Covenant [testament] by His death: "For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood." So all the New Testament, starting with Jesus' death is the New Covenant. The trouble is, Adventists and others don't read the New Covenant to see what it entails! | ||
| Psalm107v2 Registered user Username: Psalm107v2 Post Number: 868 Registered: 10-2008  |
The way of the Master offers some compelling methods of sharing the gospel, however, one of them is their use of the 10 commandments to show that all people have broken them. Unfortunately most people don't recognize that the 10 commandments were an Israelite law. I cringe when I see them use that particular tactic and it sets people up for the SDA mindset of what law stands today. | ||
| Colossians2v8 Registered user Username: Colossians2v8 Post Number: 121 Registered: 4-2012 |
What good I can say about their ten commandment "have you ever told a white lie?" strategy, is I like that it doesn't rely on original sin theology, which, regardless of what anyone has to say on original sin, I do not believe babies who die are damned. It's interesting how far the Truth has come into the churches through the generations, it's like every movement latched on to another fundamental truth, I learned just about 1.5 years ago that the Anabaptist was in part about rejecting the ritual of infant baptism. | ||
| Starlabs Registered user Username: Starlabs Post Number: 197 Registered: 5-2011 |
Quote: "....regardless of what anyone has to say on original sin, I do not believe babies who die are damned." ............ Are you saying all babies go to heaven then? What is your Scripural support for your conclusion? | ||
| Colossians2v8 Registered user Username: Colossians2v8 Post Number: 122 Registered: 4-2012 |
I've seen no Scriptural support saying babies will not go to heaven, and it is in line with the Love of our Heavenly Father, why wouldn't they? The concept that babies can burn in hell is why the RCC started the practice of infant baptism, when baptism needs a consenting adult(or some concept of age of accountability) submitting to God to have any real meaning to begin with. I would love to see Scripture either way on the subject, but my position on this is experiential, that's why I said "I do not believe" When I was an atheist I blamed God that 30,000 children starved to death every day, and I would rub that in the nose of the faithful, "Oh you believe in a Loving God? What sort of Loving God would let 30,000 children starve to death every day??" When I was first led to read the Gospel, wept over it like a baby, and was in a humble and receptive position before God, He answered that question, I only had a few chapters of Matthew under my belt at the time, I just immediately had that mocking question flash through my mind, and cried out in repentance for that behavior and in the same instant knew the answer as well, the answer was that because of the free will of wicked men those children starved to death, and they were safe and with Him, that this life is over in an instant, what matters is He is taking care of them. It was for personal edification, but I absolutely believe it, I would advise each person to seek out their own answers for nagging questions such as these. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 510 Registered: 2-2011  |
I have had the privilege to hear Ray Comfort speak(in person) on several occasions at my Calvary Chapel in Orange County, California.Not once, have I picked up that he or Kirk Cameron are suggesting in anyway the rigid "keeping of the Sabbath" ! Their whole ministry is to save souls for the Kingdom~ As an aside,(FYI) Ray Comfort is a "completed Jew". ~mj~ (Message edited by mjcmcook on June 02, 2012) | ||
| Starlabs Registered user Username: Starlabs Post Number: 198 Registered: 5-2011 |
Col, I guess it's just speculation then on our part. Here is a verse where David's baby went to Heaven, not that we can apply this to every situation, but it is an example of a baby going to Heaven. 2 Sam 12:22-23 "He said, “While the child was still alive,I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who knows, the Lord may be gracious to me, that the child may live.’ 23 But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.” I would like to think that too, as well as unborn babies. I had a brother born stillborn and I had a miscarriage. So I would love to see my baby and my baby brother! | ||
| Katarain Registered user Username: Katarain Post Number: 169 Registered: 1-2012 |
I think my concerns might have been hasty. I still enjoy watching the videos, and they seem to really focus on the grace of God. The Sabbath thing just really threw me! | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 511 Registered: 2-2011 |
I agree~sometimes we speak in haste~ I find that if I "percolate" on a subject before speaking about it, is the best way~ ~mj~ | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1891 Registered: 3-2009 |
Where does it say in there that David's baby went to heaven? | ||
| Starlabs Registered user Username: Starlabs Post Number: 204 Registered: 5-2011 |
Maybe I should have said the text seems to imply that David's baby went to heaven. David said he will go to him. We know David did not go to hell so it must be heaven. | ||
| Heretic Registered user Username: Heretic Post Number: 314 Registered: 2-2005 |
Interesting. I was at one of their conferences a couple of years ago in Cincinnati and Todd Friel gave a talk on the OT and all of the things that were pictures of Christ, including the Sabbath, how they were fulfilled and specifically said that the Sabbath was no longer binding on Christians. Must be some differing of opinion there. |
