| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9717 Registered: 3-2004  |
http://www.eternalgospel.com/ It appears they want to go back to the historical adventism. Some one mentioned this on facebook so I went there and checked it out. Diana | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7870 Registered: 9-2006  |
Interesting Dianna. Here is an exerpt from their site on their teaching titled 'What Happen When You die?' Some believe that loved ones that have died, HAVE NOT REALLY DIED; and live in other places, under other conditions. The majority of the religions throughout the world today teach that the dead are transformed into spirits. Notice they say that we believe that the dead are 'transformed' into spirits. Not true at all. In their terrible blindness they miss it completely, thinking that we think we are 'transformed' into another form. I wonder how many of you on the forum think we are 'transformed' into spirits? Be advised that if you do, this is wrong thinking. When we die we are not transformed into anything other than what we are already, the spirit we have simply leaves the body to go to be with the Lord or eternal separation from him (hell), one of the two. I would like to hear what others think of this subject. R | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2690 Registered: 5-2007  |
River, You are exactly right! We are created with a spirit. Only it is a dead spirit until it is 'transfored' into a living spirit when we are 'born again' when we recieved Jesus' gift of the Holy Spirit who now indwells us by the blood of Jesus Christ. Of course I am looking forward to the next 'transformation' where my soul and spirit wear a new body. Phil | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7874 Registered: 9-2006 |
I ain't looking forward to it, mines still got some miles left on it.  You see what eatin' road kill does for a feller don't ya? | ||
| Martin Registered user Username: Martin Post Number: 154 Registered: 11-2008 |
River, that sounds a bit like what I read in the back cover of an adventist book about the end times some months ago. It said "all the churches say that they are the true church, but are they right?" It actually saddened me, because that is misleading and untrue... Sure, there might be other churches besides the SDA that believe they are the "true ones" and all the rest are false or apostate churches... However, when I started attending the church I belong to, I never heard anybody saying anything along those lines. I do believe there is only one true Church: the body of Christ. Besides that there might be "true churches" or "false churches", in the sense that each congregation might really follow Christ or not. But I do not believe about a particular denomination or institution that is "the True Church of God" or something like that... Which is actually what the Adventist institution believe. With the spirit issue they might think that Christians believe about disembodied spirits that roam the Earth or that we're transformed into spirits after we die... With the church, they may think that we all believe in similar terms to how they believe. All that is nothing more than a misrepresentation of reality and is misleading. In a way this reminds me of a Spanish proverb: "El ladrón cree que todos son de su condición" That may be translated as "The thief believes that everybody is of his kind". | ||
| Shelley68 Registered user Username: Shelley68 Post Number: 23 Registered: 3-2012 |
Oh boy, this is another subject I have to learn all over again. Hey River! Let me get this straight, are you saying that when we die we either go to heaven or hell? I really believed when we die the dead no nothings and it's like we are asleep until Jesus returns. But, then again, that was SDA teaching or at least my understanding. Please help me I'm confused. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7876 Registered: 9-2006 |
Shelly68, The dead know nothing is a corruption of a scripture in the old testament that referred actually to 'under the sun'. I would rather let other formers help you with this as I am a never been. I have never lived Adventism so I don't feel equipped to be of much help with the state of the dead thing. Would someone please help her out with this? River | ||
| Shelley68 Registered user Username: Shelley68 Post Number: 24 Registered: 3-2012 |
Thank you River, I appreciate anything that will help me see the truth, even if you are a "never been", I have read many of your comments and concluded you are informative and knowledgeable . Give me scriptures, that all I ask. Shelley | ||
| Shelley68 Registered user Username: Shelley68 Post Number: 25 Registered: 3-2012 |
You know River, I will place this topic on the forum to get everyone's input. I thank you again. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13569 Registered: 12-2003  |
Shelley, we are spiritual beings, created with bodies plus immaterial spirits that are born dead because of Adam (Eph. 2:1-3; 1 Cor 15:20), but which come alive when we believe in the Lord Jesus. Jesus told the woman at the well that true worshipers must worship the Father in spirit and truth because God is spirit, so true worshipers must worship in spirit and truth (Jn. 4:25-27). Check out the articles in this issue of Proclamation for further reading: http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/proclamation/2008/4/index.html Colleen | ||
| Shelley68 Registered user Username: Shelley68 Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2012 |
Thank you Colleen! | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7877 Registered: 9-2006 |
I really recommend Chris's write up. I have his original write up on my hard drives somewhere. It is geared for former Adventist's. I want to make a point in the form of a story. A few years back I and a friend were going to hike up the 8 mile in California, near the summit is a lake where we were to camp. I had a brand new back pack loaded with all kinds of goodies for us to eat, and Jim remarked as we got out of the car to start, "You don't need all that." He had a small pack strapped around his waist. I ignored him and as we started up the eight mile I felt pretty good. Too make the story short, before we reached the summit my shoulders were raw meat. I ended up tossing the costly back pack at the side of the trail. When folks come out of Adventism, they are packing stuff they won't need for this trip, the state of the dead, the investigative judgement, the sabbath, and it weights them down.It soon begins to irritate the new life in them. The trail is strewn with useless items formers have discarded on the way. The state of the dead, the investigative judgement, the adherence to sabbath and it's rules...all lies. Adventist are loaded with so much baggage as to be unbelievable, and the Adventist friends I know personally stagger under the load, the straps cut into their back till the blood runs and it saddens me to see it. Jesus bid us Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Jesus don't load us down with hopeless death and a certain dread of looking to a grave of nothingness. When we die our spirit, which is more real to me than my old sinful body, is saved and when I die, my spirit, which is the real me, shall take flight and I shall ever be with the Lord. My advice, don't pack anything out of Adventism, you won't be needing that. River | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3893 Registered: 10-2004  |
Great advice, River! And I posted a link to Chris's great study in the thread in the Members section. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on April 10, 2012) | ||
| Katarain Registered user Username: Katarain Post Number: 74 Registered: 1-2012 |
Where does it say in the Bible that we have eternal life or eternal existence outside of God? Where does this belief come that God is going to give spirits in hell immortality, because that is the only way that they will exist forever in hell. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 450 Registered: 2-2011 |
Katarain~ Have you opened the link that Colleen posted in her blog # 13569 ? This article should answer your questions. ~mj~ | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 3903 Registered: 10-2004 |
Katarain, Here is a compilation that I put together of what the Bible says on that subject: http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/studies/spiritshelldeath1.html Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13579 Registered: 12-2003 |
Katarain, we were taught that "death" means "Cease to exist". That belief is not from Scripture. In Scripture "death" refers to the whole person: body plus immaterial spirit. We are dead when our spirits are disconnected from God. Being disconnected from God doesn't make our spirits cease to exist; it just makes us DEAD. Death is being separated from God's Life. Jesus Himself used death in this way:
Jesus wasn't talking about bodies that were decaying in the ground. He was talking about human beings who were moving and functioning on earth...but they were DEAD. He was calling that disciple to Life, to stop looking over his shoulder at the world with a sense of obligation to participate in it. We All die in Adam. We are all born dead in sin, by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:1-3). We are born citizens of the domain of darkness (Col 1:13). We are spiritually DEAD, but we exist. Moreover, in 2 Cor. 5:10 Paul says,
We cannot please the Lord unless we exist, with or without bodies. The wicked dead have spirits that continue to exist. They just exist apart from God, so they are in outer darkness, eternal punishment. Peter says,
God keeps the spirits of the wicked "under punishment" until His great white throne judgment described in Revelation 20. We have to re-learn our definitions. "Death" does not mean "cease to exist". In fact, Jesus used "sleep" as His word for death because the dead people are not eternally gone. Their "death" will be reversed in the resurrection. Sleep is not a permanent state; the first death is not a permanent state. Body and spirit will be reunited at resurrection, just as Jesus' body and spirit were reunited. The righteous will be resurrected for Life; the wicked will be resurrected for judgment (Jn. 5:29). Colleen | ||
| Goodday2u Registered user Username: Goodday2u Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2012 |
I just clicked on the eternalgospel.com link in the first post of this thread and received a warning from my anti-virus software (Trend Micro) that said "Dangerous Page: Trend Micro has confirmed that the site can transmit malicious software or has been involved in online scams or fraud" | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9721 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks for the warning. I did not get it when I first went there or I would not have posted it here. Diana |
