| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13471 Registered: 12-2003  |
So I've started a course of physical therapy treatments for wrist sprains. No, it's not carpal tunnel; it's de Quervain's syndrome bilaterally but worst in the right wrist. I am getting my PT from a private PT practice, and my therapist is an LLU graduate. She is a good therapist; young, bright, knows her stuff...and because of the nature of the treatments, we spend most of an hour together. So we talk. Today was my second full treatment after the initial evaluation, and I opened the conversation by asking if she had graduated from LLU. Yes. I asked if she had any background in Adventism besides LLU, and she said No--she had grown up Catholic and had attended Sunday school between the ages of 4 and 14. She is not a Christian, though, but she considers herself quite spiritual and interested in religions. But she told me some stories from PT school. I found them interesting because they belie the "image" Adventists try to project for the new, free, "evangelical Adventism" they try to claim to embrace. One thing she said was that classmates told her, after they'd known her for a while, that if she didn't keep the Sabbath, she was going to go to hell. Another incident she shared was of getting something (off campus) to eat with a friend, and the other girl said with some concern, as she purchased her chicken wrap, "Don't tell anyone I got meat." She said when she graduated, "I got all the awards, but I had the 'feeling' that if I'd been Adventist, I could have gone a lot farther and higher at Loma Linda." She said Adventism was, nevertheless, attractive. "It made sense," she said. Chapels never portrayed people as being hopeless and doomed to death as Christianity does, she said; rather, they talked about the good things we can do to make a difference. It was appealing in a certain, user-friendly way. And yet she could see the fear. She also noticed a sort-of neo-paganism (not her word but mine). Her classmates wouldn't go do things on Sabbath or even after Friday sundown, but they'd suggest going for a walk or hike instead. In addition, she knows many SDA girls who came here, took PT school, and stayed because, according to their own admissions, they're hoping to find "a rich doctor". Of course, these things don't sound surprising, really...except that Adventists have been doing such a great job of disseminating the notion that the church has/is changing. But this gal is young--perhaps 30-ish, and these comments are from her peers. Adventism is still Adventism...or so it seems. I'm curious to know if some of you have insights into the things the younger Adventists are saying. Do you see any deviation from the Adventist worldview? Colleen | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2455 Registered: 7-2007 |
A long time ago, I saw an advertisement where a man was being wheeled into surgery and just before he was wheeled in through the swinging doors of the operating room, they passed someone holding a pizza. The patient grabbed a piece, and the cheese stretched and streeeeetttteeddd as he was wheeled on through the doors. The camera focused on the closed doors of the O.R. with the thin stretched line of cheese leading between them. Then suddenly the doors slammed back open and the man still lying on his gurney and holding his piece of pizza abruptly reapeared, being sling-shotted back up the hall! That cheese is like Ellen White (even though she forbade eating cheese!) She's firmly attached to all congregations of the SDA church and they cannot get rid of her, no matter how progressive they try to get. They're doomed to be sling-shotted back into her lap, no matter what. She's the "interpreter" of the Bible for the SDA church and an ongoing "prophet" for them, no matter what they say! Since they have to "see" things from her point of view, they're continually doomed to never see salvation as a true gift that Jesus finished on the cross. | ||
| Martin Registered user Username: Martin Post Number: 149 Registered: 11-2008 |
Last time I attended a SDA church after several years outside the "system" was in December. I was back with my parents and a friend came to visit me on Friday. As she would spend the night in our house and my dad would go to the church on Saturday I asked her if she wanted to go... She wouldn't if I wasn't going, as she knew that I'm not an Adventist any more. Well, I guess the following can be argued and different opinions can be given... Truth is that I decided to go to the SDA church so that she would attend. She didn't coerce me to go at all or even suggested it, but I offered it. I did it more for her sake than mine. It was an interesting experience as that was the church where my parents were baptised and where I attended as a kid, so there were people who remembered me (or so they said) even if I couldn't remember them. I attended the youth/young adults Sabbath school and sermon, as they had a special programme on that day. I didn't see anything different than what I expected, besides a few more modern songs that I know from my church. I guess that was because it was younger people and doubt they sing them in the main service. And, in any case, I don't think that singing modern songs has that much impact on the church, as a real deep change in the beliefs or attitudes would have. Hopefully they might present the benefit of introducing some ideas and concepts that are somehow obscured in traditional SDA hymns, but my fear is that they might still be seen through the adventist-tinted glasses. By the end I talked a bit with the man who preached and it once again confirmed to me that things remain the same despite the time that has passed, especially when it comes to prophecies and interpretations. I didn't argue at all with him and just let him speak, and only commented that however things might come to occur God is in total control and we can trust in Him... And although the person seemed to agree with me, I could feel a certain reticence. As if, well, God is in control but things must happen in this particular way they believe and say. Sigh. | ||
| Asetechrail Registered user Username: Asetechrail Post Number: 64 Registered: 1-2010  |
"And although the person seemed to agree with me, I could feel a certain reticence. As if, well, God is in control but things must happen in this particular way they believe and say." I have found that this attitude is in almost all the churches. SDA's don't hold the corner on the market on this one!! I do not agree with hardly anything taught in adventist churches. However; more and more, I find that I don't agree with a lot from the mainline churches either. They all seem to teach certain things, and if you don't happen to agree with them and have the nerve to speak up about it, then woe to you! You become anathma sp to them. More and more I find that I may become one of those people who does not go to any stick church at all. I do meet with other Christians and worship with them, but not at some corporate church. To me the stick and brick buildings mean nothing. It is not where or when a person worships but WHO .... | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13474 Registered: 12-2003 |
Wow. I wish I could transplant y'all into some of the great churches I've attended or visited. Small group study and worship is amazing and essential. Corporate worship, though, with a whole body of people who know and love Jesus and honor His word—even though they hold widely varying beliefs about secondary issues such as eschatology, etc., is something nothing else can replace. Hearing Scripture taught by someone who is faithful to Jesus and to His word, though, is such an amazing and essential part of deprogramming from our cultic worldview. We learned as Adventists that theology has to all "line up", that we have to agree on the way we understand al the doctrines. In reality, the core essential beliefs of the gospel are clear and non-negotiable from a Christian perspective, but those core beliefs are the simple gospel, the centrality of the cross and the Lord Jesus, the primacy of His Word as our authority, and the biblical Trinity. Other things are secondary, and we can have Christian fellowship with people if we hold those core beliefs in common because we share the experience of being born again and adopted into Christ. Secondary issues do not have to cause us to break fellowship. So many of us, though, feel we "can't worship" in a church that teaches the rapture, or eternal hell, or even infant baptism. Now, I hold some pretty strong views about some secondary issues, such as infant baptism; nevertheless, if I meet a truly born again Christian who believes in infant baptism, I will still be able to worship and fellowship with her even though I strongly disagree with infant baptism and may even have discussions about it with her. It's really important that we not hold onto that notion that a church has to "agree" with our beliefs in order for us to worship there. Yes, it must agree on the gospel and the authority of Scripture and the nature of God, but secondary issues evolve and shift over time if we are persistent in immersing ourselves in Scripture. There's absolutely nothing that can replace the gift of hearing Scripture taught by someone who is committed to the Lord Jesus and loves His word—but who has never been SDA. Colleen | ||
| Starlabs Registered user Username: Starlabs Post Number: 95 Registered: 5-2011 |
I too am one of those who has not found a corporate church to attend. I do believe there is good fellowship in many of them no matter the secondary disagreements, but for me I find studying with my family or listening to a good sermon online works for my busy schedule. Besides I don't think that most of the churches were what God intended for us anyway. Yes, we need to be spiritually fed ourselves, but the need for feeding the poor and ministring to the widows is where I want my focus to be when I have the spare time. | ||
| Starlabs Registered user Username: Starlabs Post Number: 96 Registered: 5-2011 |
I reread what I wrote and I didn't mean to give the impression that people should not attend a church if that's what they feel is right to do. I'm just stating how I personally feel. It's maybe because I haven't found a church yet that I feel comfortable in. Colleen, I do think it would be awesome to worship in the churches you mentioned. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13482 Registered: 12-2003 |
I understand what you're saying, Starlabs, and I believe a great many of us do go through a period similar to what you describe after leaving Adventism. We did--we had home church with our neighbors for about three years before starting to attend Trinity. But the Scriptural model is that we are to function as a body, in community with one another. As I've heard others say, "There's no such thing as a lone-ranger Christian." Hebrews 10:25-26 says it this way:
It's not even mostly a matter of being fed; we really can become nourished through online sermons and such. But it's a matter of supporting and encouraging one another. We were given spiritual gifts for the building up of the body primarily. We cannot grow up into Christ and become mature if we are on our own. Oh, we can be saved for sure! But the Lord Jesus intends for us to mature in a body. Here's what Paul said to the Ephesians:
In John 13:35 Jesus told His disciples that the way people would they were His disciples (and in context, his words apply to all His disciples) by their love for one another. He is not talking about their love for the world or the poor, although those are a necessary part of being His. But Jesus is talking about His people loving one another...loving the brothers. This is the real mark of being His disciples. Feeding the poor and and needy is a fruit of being saved, and these are things the church is commissioned to do. But caring for the needy is not something only the saved can do. Loving the brothers, however, is a family privilege that non-believers cannot do. We are never asked to be part of an ideal body. We are simply asked to be part of the body. To be sure, some churches have deviant beliefs, and those are not healthy for anyone. But functioning in the body of Christ is not optional for a Christ-follower. If we are an "arm" or a "toe" or an "eye", we cannot perform our function if we're separated from the rest of the body. We are gifted for the good of one another, and as a complete body we build each other up and spill over into the world. I know it's hard to find a church...I SO know! I also know God will lead us where He knows we'll grow. We have to risk functioning in the body. We were badly burned by being part of a counterfeit body where the people were not truly born again; it was a fake body, and it couldn't nurture anyone. But where people are committed to Jesus, even if they're not always like we hope they'll be, our own commitment to serving our Head, the Lord Jesus, through loving the brothers and sisters will bring that much more health to the local church. Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9675 Registered: 3-2004  |
When God took me out of adventism, I remembered a text some where in the NT about not forgetting to gather together to encourage each other. I started visiting churches on Sundays. This was in Jan 2004. It was not until May 2004 when, in frustration, I asked God about the church He wanted me to attend. Then He, literally, told me. I was rebaptized there and attended there until God showed me I needed spiritual growth. God took me to another church where I am getting what I need. Thank you awesome God. Diana ps I wanted, so much, to have a group of former sdas to gather with, as I had found FAF in March 2004. Looking back now, if I had had one, I may not have gone to a church. God knows best and He put me where He wanted me. With a group of Christians who love me very much. I thank my awesome God for them. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2458 Registered: 7-2007 |
Another thing to consider is that where two are three are gathered together to worship Him, God is there in the midst of them, so that's a church.  (Matthew 18:20) (Message edited by Asurprise on March 08, 2012) (Message edited by Asurprise on March 08, 2012) |
