| Author | Message | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 146 Registered: 5-2011 |
Recently I have been trying to understand why the Millerites thought Christ would return in 1844. I always heard the SDA versions of it, even though I never really studied it hard for myself. The 2300 days of Daniel now don't make sense. The term "days" wasn't used in the original Aramaic, but "evenings and mornings". Also, the little horn of Daniel 8 isn't the same thing as Daniel 7. It is to my understanding that the SDAs say that BOTH little horns are the papacy. The SDAs claim that the ten horns of Daniel 7's beast are 10 tribes. It turns out that there were more than 20 tribes that lived in the area of the Roman Empire. In "National Sunday Law", the author even said that the area is now made up of 10 countries. It's false, because about 40 countries now make up the area of the former Roman Empire. The 70 week timeline is something I don't understand yet. Daniel 8 has a ram and a goat. The ram is Medo-Persia. The goat took over the ram's power. The goat represented Greece. The one horn between its eyes is the first king (Alexander the Great). Later 4 horns arise from the goat's head after the first one is gone. Those were to be 4 kings. After Alexander the Great died in 323 BC his empire got divided into 4 and given to his 4 generals. Out of one of those 4 horns, another horn arrives. That horn-power would stop daily sacrifices, and would blaspheme the Most High. After 2300 days then the sanctuary would be re-dedicated. I now can't understand the Adventist reasoning that the year 457 BC was anything significant in prophecy. Why do they choose that year for the starting date of 2300 days? I have found it hard to argue with SDAs. They still say that the little horn of Daniel 8 was Rome. HOW? The Greek Empire didn't encompass the area that is Rome. I decided to do some research on the falling stars of 1833. It turns out that the falling stars was a Leonid meteor shower. I heard that first in high school. I did some more research on meteor showers and found out that spectacular Leonid meteor showers happen every 33 years. They are associated with the comet Tempel-Tuttle and when the Earth goes into the comet's orbit, debris from other passes of the comet rain down on the Earth. The amount of meteors is also affected by the position of Jupiter in the comet's orbit. There won't be such a big show for a long time, since Jupiter is now messing with Tempel-Tuttle's orbit. "Particularly impressive displays were found to have taken place in the years of 1533, 1366, 1202, 1037, 967 and 934. Arab historical accounts have called the year of 902 A.D. the "Year of the Stars," as Leonid meteors lit up the night sky during which Ibrahim, king of Tunisia and Sicily, lay dying. " http://www.space.com/9517-leonid-meteor-shower-revealed-shooting-star-show-brilliant-history.html It turns out Joseph Smith also said that the 1833 shower was a supernatural event. The Dark Day of May 1780 was heralded to be supernatural by the Shakers and many others besides the Millerites. http://strangemaine.blogspot.com/2006/08/dark-day-of-1780.html It turns out that some scientists have looked at tree ring evidence in Canada and found that it was the result of a forest fire in Algonquin Provincial Park in Ontario. I do think that the fires could have spread into New York as well. http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/05/dayintech_0519?npu=1&mbid=yhp Yet even though some Adventists have learned these facts, they STILL say that the darkness was supernatural. It's because it was in the Northeast USA. There was religious persecution. Blah blah blah. You just can't argue with them. | ||
| Foofighter Registered user Username: Foofighter Post Number: 205 Registered: 7-2005 |
Hi Butterfly_poette, Regarding the dark day and the stars falling, I also researched those events, and discovered what you did. I don't think any amount of evidence, or hard facts, will change many minds that are set in the SDA teachings that they have known all their life. I posted this information on Revival Sermons site once, and it was a big THUD! Pretty much the same answer you got. In reading Matthew 24:29, it sounds like these things happen consecutively, not several years apart, like 1780 and 1833. Also, Revelation 6:12-17 talks about the same celestial events...along with earthquakes and islands and mountains being moved out of place. This all seems to happen right before Jesus returns, at least that's how it seems to me. I do think that end time events center around Israel/Jerusalem. I hope others make some comments. I'm on my way out the door. Hope to comment more later! Carol | ||
| Dt Registered user Username: Dt Post Number: 145 Registered: 4-2005 |
What was ANY Bible-believing Christian doing out there waiting for Jesus to return? There are numerous Scriptural warnings against this as well as the signs given in Matthew 24, which lets you know that there will be no mistaking the signs, everyone will know it. A student of Scripture had no business being out there. But then, a true student of Scripture would not then vilify those who did not go out and await the second coming. Read the account of this in Early Writings and you will just scratch your head and wonder how anybody could ever call it the Great Disappointment. DT | ||
| Truman Registered user Username: Truman Post Number: 64 Registered: 1-2012 |
I remember reading an article in the Review several years ago (unfortunately I don't remember the author's name) from an SDA apologist/astronomer, regarding the "stars falling." His argument was that just because it was a recurring event didn't mean it wasn't a sign of the end (i.e., or that Ellen White was wrong). It was the old "gracefully walk it back" strategy, to make sure they acknowledged it was just a meteor shower. Side note: Are kids in SDA schools still taught that these were signs of the end? I remember that we were, in 5th or 6th grade. Ayyy chihuahua... | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13401 Registered: 12-2003  |
It's part of the lore. You have to have reasons to make 1844 plausible. I think you might find Martin Carey's articles on the "Watching World" and "Opening Orion" very insightful; you can read them here: http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/proclamation/2008/1/martincarey.html http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/proclamation/2008/1/martincarey.html Colleen | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 150 Registered: 5-2011 |
Thank you. I remember being in a church school I attended in Massachusetts from 1986-1988. I was told about the Dark Day and the Falling Stars. I had the impression that "nobody could explain them" and that they probably affected much of the Earth. I do wonder what kids are taught these days in SDA schools. | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 658 Registered: 7-2005 |
Astronomy Newsflash: On 20 May 2012, an annular solar eclipse will be visible in California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. It will be visible also from Tokyo, in Japan, in case Agapetos is interested. I had the one-life opportunity to watch an annular solar eclipse in 1991. It's fantastic, don't miss it. The feeling you get when the sun is covered totally by the moon letting just a circle of light around it cannot be described. Check the NASA map of the zones where the eclipse will be visible at the following link, Annular Solar Eclipse of 2012 May 20. Eventually contact Martin Carey who is more qualified than I am for giving you instructions regarding this extraordinary phenomenon. As a parenthesis, after watching such an eclipse, you'll better understood how such visible astronomical events impression people toward religious feelings. Colleen, I hope Martin Carey will write other articles on this subject for Proclamation! His articles were instrumental in opening my interest for astronomy from a Christian perspective. Unfortunately, for an adventist, entering into contact with the astronomical world usually leads to atheism, because the Ellen White's perspective is highly flawed. Gabriel | ||
| Foofighter Registered user Username: Foofighter Post Number: 207 Registered: 7-2005 |
Hi Gabriel, Sounds like a spectacular event to watch! I'm not in one of those locations, unfortunately. I totally understand how frightening those events must have been. Those folks certainly didn't have the knowledge that we have today. I'm sure I would have been terrified! My issue is that EGW, the prophet, taught that these signs, including the Lisbon earthquake were the fulfillment of Matthew 24. I suppose it is still in the Great Controversy. I'm not sure if it is still taught, probably is some places, but the SDA church is once again, tied to what Ellen says, not what more knowledge and proper Bible study says. Have you ever seen the DVD "Star of Bethlehem"? Really, really interesting. Carol | ||
| Truman Registered user Username: Truman Post Number: 67 Registered: 1-2012 |
Carol, regarding Star of Bethlehem, the web site has a lot of info that is quite interesting. (The same title and .net, I think). What was even more interesting to me than the Bethlehem star explanation was their research into (and verifying) the earthquake and eclipse at the time of the crucifixion. | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 7713 Registered: 9-2006  |
These things are indeed still being taught, Bible readings for the home is still alive and kicking and its all in there. The hard cover Bible Readings For The Home is a much valued book by Adventists, they replaced the hard cover with a soft cover, but its all in there, the dark days, the meteor shower, the supposed confession by Catholic bishops that they turned sabbath to Sunday, the proof texts that leads you to the conclusion they want you to arrive at, the whole bit. Do you think that just because you left 1 year, 2 years or 10 years ago that Adventism has somehow changed? It was formed on error, its very foundation is laid on error on error, if you take the foundation away there is no more Adventism. Ok, I won't get a goin'. River | ||
| Truman Registered user Username: Truman Post Number: 68 Registered: 1-2012 |
Great points, River. They have been known to quietly drop publication of embarrassingly false materials, such as "A Word to Mothers" (about the health risks of "self-abuse") and "Sketches from the Life of Paul" (blatantly plagiarized). Not that they disavow the writings; they just act like they never existd. So it wouldn't shock me if a story like "When the Stars Fell" suddenly vanished from the elementary school curriculum. |
