| Author |
Message |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1544
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 9:26 pm: |     |
quote:We all inherit our sin nature from Adam.
This is where you move from Biblical truth to speculation. We are all sinners because of Adam's sin, but Scripture says nothing about inheriting this sin through the genes of the Father.
Jesus didn't need a sinless mother to be born without sin, because Jesus wasn't a half-human. Because Jesus was fully God He was without sin.
Are you saying that at the time of the Nicene Creed the Catholic church was still sufficiently Christian that it was following God and that it was not until later that it went into apostacy? Wouldn't that be agreeing with what Colleen, Jeremy, and I have been saying all along?
quote:When a person gets saved, they don't stay in the cult they're in. The come out!
That very hour? That day? When have YOU determined that they must leave by in order to have been truly saved?
Are you looking at this elapsed time from your standpoint or from God's? |
Mjcmcook
Registered user
Username: Mjcmcook
Post Number: 341
Registered: 2-2011
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 9:43 pm: | |
~Ausprise~
I have been following this very long 'thread'! and
I, too, would like to read your answer to Ric_b's last question, in his post #1544~
" That very hour? That day?"(regarding when a person who claims they are 'Saved')
and leaves a church, they believe is not teaching
the correct doctrine~
~mj~ |
Grace_alone
Registered user
Username: Grace_alone
Post Number: 2033
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 10:32 pm: | |
Dianne,
I appreciate you admitting that you're confused, but as you can see, I addressed the post to Lynne. She knows what I was writing about, as we discussed it when it happened.
Leigh Anne |
Christo
Registered user
Username: Christo
Post Number: 296
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 10:54 pm: | |
In the midst of heresy, its hard to hang around for long because a believer quickly becomes a stench to the followers of a false gospel. This is confirmed in scripture. How long it takes for someone to leave depends on how much the believer can endure the loss of love from people who where once dear friends, or how much stench ( Gospel filled spirit) the unbeliever will put up with. If you don't leave they will get rid of you. I find that the believer never looses love for the unbeliever, but the unbeliever does loose love for the believer.
Some try and stay to help the church find Christ, or because they have a deep love for their friends, but there is a lot of hardpan soil that doesn't allow seeds of faith to grow.
This isn't even an academic or theological question or position, but outright spiritual warfare.
Ravenous wolves comes to mind. The darkness does not like to be encompassed by light. They will try and quench the Spirit by attempting to snuff out the light of Christ in you. It is brutal. There will be war upon your flesh, and your families flesh, all while putting on the biggest smile imaginable. Families can really be put through the wringer.
I get real uncomfortable when religious leavening tries to leaven my lump.
Ahhh Jesus, the bread which comes from Heaven ( not leaven)
Chris |
Truman
Registered user
Username: Truman
Post Number: 21
Registered: 1-2012
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 11:24 pm: | |
Uh huh. And if they happen to fellowship with others who are saved, but are still with that organization?
Point being, it's not for us to say exactly what someone must do after being saved. And it's certainly not for us to determine who is saved. |
Christo
Registered user
Username: Christo
Post Number: 297
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 12:07 am: | |
It was hard for me to watch thorns and thistles trying to get people to think their teaching prophesies were going to produce grapes and figs. i saw a lot of really vulnerable people exposed to way to much. I was vulnerable too, at times.
I know its every man for themselves, because each individual has to arrive at faith singularly. It is not a group experience. But.......
When I saw the anchors of leavening and works being thrown to people who needed the life boat of the gospel. I threw them the Gospel. It doesn't doesn't always go over very well in mixed company.
I could see why believers would group up in such a situation, and let unbelievers be unbelievers. Rocking the religious boat has always had its price to pay.
Clinging to Jesus,
Chris |
Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 841
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 2:20 am: | |
Asurprise, you really need to check out ccel.org and actually read the early Apostolic fathers along with the Tripartite history. Your version of early church history is largely false. Further, most of the beliefs of the RCC that seem to bother you the most occurred after 1,000 ad and the split with the Eastern church.
If you take the time to read and study early church history,doctrine and practices you will find a church very different from the typical Calvinist influenced Evangelical churches.
Lynne! Good to see you posting over here again! |
Raven
Registered user
Username: Raven
Post Number: 1203
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 4:28 am: | |
In response to Christo's opinion that once someone is saved they won't hang around for long is not quite as simple as that in my experience. While I don't know the exact moment I was saved, I do see looking back there was a period of several years (maybe 6-8) that I stayed in Adventism but personally understood God's grace, believe I was saved, and knew God to be slowly teaching me things contrary to Adventism. I was uncomfortable in the SDA church at this time and kept wondering if there was something else out there I should be looking at. But I felt like I had to stay for a few reasons. One was because I was afraid if Ellen White was right and I just wasn't understanding something about her that it would be really bad to leave. Also, I firmly believed the Sabbath and state of the dead beliefs as SDAs teach them (maybe without the end-time scenario about the Sabbath) was crucial for a Christian. Then (I'm sure at the right time in God's eyes) the veil was removed in a matter of weeks and I understood that EGW was indeed a false prophet placing her source squarely from the Devil, that there had to be more than the 10 C's that defined what it meant to be God's child (or maybe I should say something other than the 10 C's)--which meant I suddenly had a much more complete understanding of Grace Alone, and I came to understand the Sabbath isn't about Sabbath versus Sunday, but that we are free to worship any day and the Sabbath was really fulfilled and pointed to the believer's rest in Jesus. When that all came together for me, it still took another year before having the courage to actually leave. And I believe God was in the timing of that, waiting the year to give the courage--because during that year we continued to be taught from God the contrasts to what we were seeing every day in Adventism versus what the Bible teaches, and God was using my husband (Ric_b) to teach/preach plenty of Gospel in the SDA church. But I think this all shows the long process God uses with plenty of people, and an SDA you know may very well be saved and slowly processing out even if they don't know it yet. And God may use you to help that person grasp yet another Bible truth that furthers that process along.
(Message edited by Raven on January 25, 2012) |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 7645
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 5:51 am: | |
I just want to be honest, open and above board in saying that anyone in their right mind knows very well that there is a rift between the theology of protestants and Catholics.
It is no secret to the world, to Lynne, or to me. It is a sad state of afairs, but the state of affairs non-theless.
Yet that is no excuse for continuous pot shotting and sniping at every opportunity at a person or persons who are guest on this forum.
We just cannot do that and call it evangelism, I have brought this to Diannes attention as have others and yet she is either incapable of, or refuses to see the concept.
I will not say anything further to try to improve the situation.
We none of us are perfect in this Christian walk, we walk undeserving in the grace of the Lord Jesus and we all must stand before him.
We, as Christians just cannot use our Christianity as a blunt instrument. I say this although I stand guilty at times and I make no excuses for these transgressions.
That more excellent way that Paul spoke about goes a long way to further evangelism and finding points of mutual respect so that we may not become all the way divided I think the Lord would be approving of amongst us.
River |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 7646
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 6:20 am: | |
Raven,
My dad used to say, "Son you have got to look down a long gun barrel."
What he meant by that was that we need to look far reaching.
I have my own saying that encompasses the same principle, "Its a long way to Tucumcari."
I so agree with you on the fact that a person may be days, months or many years in arriving at his destination.
I think Jesus said it best when he said, John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
We are blessed to be a part of reaching out to those 'other sheep' yet we are not the Shepard.
I had a very wayward son and one day I became discouraged, and I said aloud, "Lord! Will I ever live to see the day that boy is saved?"
Immediately the Holy Spirit put this in my heart, "Have faith in God."
Six years later I saw the change that I was looking for in that boy.
Although we may see no outward signs and the days turn into weeks and the weeks turn into months and the months turn into years and uncertainty of a love one attacks us and although the devil may mock us, sometimes its a long way to Tucumcari.
For those of us that have loved ones however steeped in Adventism, pray and have faith in God.
For those of us that have lost children, sisters or brothers, pray and have faith in God.
River |
Christo
Registered user
Username: Christo
Post Number: 298
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 7:01 am: | |
My apologies, everything I said was true within my experience, but I must confess that the congregation I spoke of was conservative SDA, and week after week presented the most anti Gospel messages imaginable.
The local congregation in the new town I am in seams to be more soft pedaled. The pastor presents messages that seam true, and yet he doesn't protect his flock from guest speakers, or evangelists and bible workers who present anti Gospel messages. If I didn't get bored to tears I could have probably been compelled to hang around if I had developed meaningful social life at that church, because the heresy was much more subtle.
Chris |
Truman
Registered user
Username: Truman
Post Number: 22
Registered: 1-2012
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 11:00 am: | |
Chris,
I don't disagree with your overall point, which I think is that if we are seeking truth we will obviously want to gravitate toward truth - and away from error.
As Raven pointed out, where a seeker is, precisely, in that walk of faith is usually impossible for us to know. For example, the individual may see some errors in doctrine, and believe that Jesus has forgiven our sins and given us salvation.
Which next step that individual takes is between him/her and God, and there could be countless nuances to each situation. I just feel we should be cautious in making sweeping statements regarding what people "must" do (and on what timeline) once they are saved, as we can't know their circumstances.
Like you, I can't stomach hearing most SDA speakers, and I get your point about pastors allowing anti-gospel messages. (I haven't attended an SDA church service for many years, but my father seems to have 3ABN running 24/7 when I visit.) |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1548
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 11:23 am: | |
quote:I just feel we should be cautious in making sweeping statements regarding what people "must" do (and on what timeline) once they are saved.
Great point Truman!
Think about this in terms of the Gospel. What works on our part are required in order to attain or maintain our salvation?
If we are critical that SDAism teaches that once you are saved you need to do certain works in order to keep that salvation, are we saying anything different when we link works and salvation? |
Christo
Registered user
Username: Christo
Post Number: 299
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 12:30 pm: | |
I didn't want to communicate anything I said as works, or things that you must do once saved. I was only trying to describe natural outcomes. It is how I make sense of my treacherous experience.
2 CORINTHIANS 2 (NLT)
14 But thank God! He has made us his captives and continues to lead us along in Christ’s triumphal procession. Now he uses us to spread the knowledge of Christ everywhere, like a sweet perfume. 15 Our lives are a Christ-like fragrance rising up to God. But this fragrance is perceived differently by those who are being saved and by those who are perishing. 16 To those who are perishing, we are a dreadful smell of death and doom. But to those who are being saved, we are a life-giving perfume. And who is adequate for such a task as this?
17 You see, we are not like the many hucksters[a] who preach for personal profit. We preach the word of God with sincerity and with Christ’s authority, knowing that God is watching us.
CHRIS |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1549
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 1:03 pm: | |
Chris,
Please don't take my comments at being critical of you. Keeping salvation free from all human works is a great struggle through the centuries for the church. The wholge grace thing flies in the face of our natural human instincts. So churches add a little bit or a whole lot to what we must do.
We must even be careful describing these actions as the "natural outcomes", haven't you heard that same story from within SDAism. The Sabbath isn't a work, and Sabbath keeping isn't about what you MUST do once you come to Christ. But obeying the 10 commandments is the natural outcome of having a relationship with Christ, so Sabbath is only revealing what is in your heart; Sabbath isn't a required work.
Don't read this as a denial of God's work in us through His indwelling Spirit, but rather as an indictment of all those demanding certain works as signs that we are truly saved. Instead we need to trust God's leading of His children. Once a person is God's child, He will take care of the rest. He calls His children gently, He plucks children out of ditches, and He disciplines children. He is the Perfect Father knowing what each child needs at that moment. |
Starlabs
Registered user
Username: Starlabs
Post Number: 40
Registered: 5-2011
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 1:43 pm: | |
I do think we have to be so careful and use very kind and loving words to help people to understand that they are in a cult. It needs to be firm but with love. What I have seen as a trend though in former SDA facebook groups is this harsh back biting spirit to SDA's who happen to wander on but then it's almost the opposite to those formers who have stepped or are stepping into another cult. They seem to coddle them and because of not wanting to hurt their feelings they just won't say anything at all. Both situations are entirely wrong. How it's handled when formers are stepping toward another cult because of their new friendships needs to be done in a even more delicate manner.
Sometimes according to how I'm perceiving it and I could totally be off, it seems that there is more patience for formers who have entered another false religion than there is for SDA's who won't leave. Its almost a double standard. I'm not sure but I just get that feeling on some former SDA Facebook groups. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 13354
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 2:56 pm: | |
Starlabs, very interesting observation. I find myself increasingly upset when I see former Adventists who profess Jesus beginning to wander toward false teaching. Sometimes it's not even another cult, but it's a shift to false teaching, such as "name it and claim it" or rigid, dogmatic hyper-Calvinism.
We have only one foundation: Scripture, and we have one Spirit who brings us all to life. We are obligated to submit our minds and choices and lives to His word and to allow His Spirit to convict us of the things in our lives that the Lord Jesus wants us to recognize and surrender.
My experience tells me that pretty much all of us who have been Adventist have experienced abuse of some sort. With religious fraud and abuse come all sorts of other abuses that are hidden inside the fabric of the organization. As we discover who Jesus is, He also begins to show us the truth about ourselves. Sometimes we become conscious of pain that we carry that previously we hid from ourselves by acting out and self-protecting or self-destructive behaviors. Often we just want to feel better fast...and we divert from a trusting, long-term surrender and grasp onto things that we hope will "fix" us.
But Jesus asks us to sit in the reality He shows us...and promises to sit with us. He redeems those wounds, but He doesn't slap quick-fix bandaids on them. It's a long process of learning to trust Him and allow Him to give us peace and rest.
I know I can sound like a broken record, but the only safe place is living anchored to Scripture and submitted to Jesus. The bigger-than-life promises of non-biblical teaching only take our eyes off Jesus and yield long-term disappointment.
Jesus is the only Way. He is Truth, Life, Light. He is all we need.
Colleen |
Starlabs
Registered user
Username: Starlabs
Post Number: 41
Registered: 5-2011
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 6:53 pm: | |
Well said, Colleen. |
Christo
Registered user
Username: Christo
Post Number: 300
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 9:30 pm: | |
Hi all,
I'm not describing natural outcomes, scripture is. I thought about what Ric said even before I posted it, about how SDAs will talk about natural outcomes (such as sabbath keeping) for those who are in relationship with Christ. The thing is, a relationship with Christ is a saving relationship. Yet SDAs will say that you can never know if you are saved. Kind of a silly notion. I can't be responsible for how others misrepresent scripture.
In the 2 Corinthians scripture I quoted, there is a clear message about about the response of the unsaved towards the saved.
The unsaved would include, amongst others, those justified by the law, whether the Mosaic Law, ones own personal law, or a cultic law.
I apologize if I sound coarse, I don't mean to, but I am not certain always walking on eggshells is the answer either.
There are a lot of things mentioned in the Bible, such as foolish Galatians, Who would bewitch you, doctrines of demons, etc. that were not walking on egg shells, but were all written with love.
Thanks Colleen, Jesus is the way, and scripture confirms it.
Chris |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2371
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 3:34 pm: | |
Thank-you Chris for your insightful post. I agree. If people are doing ANYTHING, thinking they HAVE TO do it in order to be or stay saved, then they haven't accepted Jesus' finished work. If they've accepted Jesus' FINISHED WORK, then they know it's finished and therefore know that there isn't anything further they have to do to be saved. The Bible makes it clear through many verses (such as 1st John 2:12) that ALL a person's sins are forgiven when they accept Jesus' finished work and that includes FUTURE sins!
River; It isn't love to sit back and not warn someone who's in a cult, anymore than it's love to simply smile and wave at a family through their window as they eat supper; while the whole upper story of their house burns and is about to collapse down upon them. Awhile back you warned us formers not to go back to "pet the snake," (meaning not go back to the SDA church.) The other cults are snakes the same as Adventism.
It isn't fun for me to warn people in cults of their danger. It would be easier to just sit back and adopt an easy-going attitude of "well, God can use someone ELSE to warn them." I don't like getting jumped on any more than anyone else! I don't like trying to tell my relatives that they need to accept Jesus only and not depend on the "investigative judgment."
If I can't obey God and warn the lost here in the U.S. where it's realively easy to witness, then how am I going to stand up to the hardships that will happen when Revelation 13 is fulfilled, and Christians are tortured for their faith? Already Christians are tortured and killed in places like North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, India, China, Sudan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and lots of other places. The biggest persecutor - Islamists - are determined to bring their Sharia law to the whole world! (We just aren't noticing it much in the U.S. because instead of knocking down buildings - have you noticed they want to plant a "flagship" mosque where they knocked them down? - they've gone undercover in their efforts to bring in Sharia.) |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1562
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 4:44 pm: | |
quote:If they've accepted Jesus' FINISHED WORK, then they know it's finished and therefore know that there isn't anything further they have to do to be saved. The Bible makes it clear through many verses (such as 1st John 2:12) that ALL a person's sins are forgiven when they accept Jesus' finished work and that includes FUTURE sins
Do you have a special version of Scripture Asurprise?
I John 2:12 NASB 12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake.
It doesn't say that your sins have been forgiven you ONLY if you believe in the finished work of Jesus. You are adding to Scripture.
I do not disagree with you that it is important to warn people in false religions about their dangers. I don't think that a single person here has said that you shouldn't do this. Some have commented on how you can best do this. My comments have been:
that you need to be accurate in what you say (which you clearly have not been) in order to be credible;
that you need to do a least a cursory investigation of your web sources and make sure that you are directing people to reliable information;
and perhaps most importantly,
that you need to recognize that individual salvation is not dependent on the accuracy of what the person's church teaches. When you begin by telling people that they are certainly unsaved because they are a member of this false church you not only decrease the chance that they will listen to a single word that follows, but you also assume the role of God, pretending to know who is or is not one of His children.
I wouldn't say these things to you if I didn't love you. It would be much easier to just make one post saying I disagreed with you. But it pains me to watch you make these potential false accusations about people. Stick to why the doctrines are "doctrine of demons". |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2372
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 9:37 pm: | |
Here you go, Ric;
"So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, 'It is finished!' And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit." John 19:30
BTW, if someone has been in a false religion, say, 30 years and they not only defend it, but promote it; are they saved? A Christian can get a pretty good idea who's saved by what comes out of the person's mouth.
"for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush. The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks." Luke 6:44-45
Why don't you use your energy to witness to the lost instead of wrestling the saved down to the ground and pinning them there?
I love you too, Ric. |
Cathy2
Registered user
Username: Cathy2
Post Number: 445
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 9:51 pm: | |
Whom are "the lost"?
"We can tell where the Holy Spirit is, but we cannot tell where He is not."
No one's story is finished yet.
God Bless,
Cathy |
Cathy2
Registered user
Username: Cathy2
Post Number: 446
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 10:42 pm: | |
"Preach the Gospel. If necessary use words."
St. Francis of Assisi |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1563
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 11:07 pm: | |
quote:Why don't you use your energy to witness to the lost instead of wrestling the saved down to the ground and pinning them there?
So now you have moved on to personal attacks. How much time do I spend witnessing to lost?
quote:I love you too, Ric.
I'm really not certain how to respond when you go from personal attacks based on false accusations to this statement. I can't know how you meant it, but it doesn't sound very sincere to me in the context it was written.
Asurprise, if your idea of proving that one must believe in the finished work of Christ (as you specifically define that finished work) in order to be saved comes from this verse, then clearly you have not understood the problem with proof-texting that took place so often in SDAism.
quote:"So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, 'It is finished!' And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit." John 19:30
I would like to provide a very specific example of the difference I have been trying to convey regarding witnessing to those trapped in a false religion.
Example A "You aren't saved, you can't be saved as long as you are part of a church that worships the wrong Jesus. You may think you love Jesus and believe in Him, but you worship a false Jesus."
Example B "You have told me that you believe in Jesus and that you accept Him as your Lord. But your church is teaching things about Jesus that simply aren't true. Scripture teaches that Jesus' work in saving us is finished. He doesn't need to do more, and we can't add to His work. His death forgave all of our sins, even the ones we will commit in the future. Even the ones we didn't confess."
Help them understand what Jesus has already done for them (If they are saved, you are helping in their growth, if they aren't saved you are proclaiming the Gospel). Help them understand how what Scripture says about Jesus differs from what their church is telling them about Jesus. And trust the Spirit to take care of the rest. We don't need to threaten or manipulate or scare a person into leaving their false religion. We simply shine the light on the truth. It may take months or even years, but Believers are children of the light and will continue forward in the light. But the children of darkness will hate the light, and will fight against it, and will flee that light every chance they get. We can't force a child of darkness to love the light. And we don't need to convince a child of God to love the light.
So please, proclaim why we don't need any priest but our High Priest Jesus to mediate for us. Proclaim how forgiveness of our sins is His gift, accomplished through His death, and freely given to His children; how we don't need confession and penance to be forgiven. Proclaim how Christ has finished the work of salvation. But skip your personal conclusions about whether the person you are talking to is truly saved or is truly a Believer. You can't know that about any person you are talking to and it doesn't help your witness of the Gospel.
I'm sorry that you see my efforts as working to wrestle you to the ground and pin you there. That is not the point of my efforts at all. I admire your zeal, your passion and certainly your persistance. And I believe that if you would pause for a little while and listen to some of the advice being offered here by people who really do care about you and about the Gospel, you could use the talents that God has given you more effectively. |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 2373
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2012 - 10:59 am: | |
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” - Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:19-20) |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1566
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2012 - 11:03 am: | |
quote:"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” - Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:19-20)
AMEN! Everything that I have said to you fully supports this. |
Loneviking
Registered user
Username: Loneviking
Post Number: 842
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Monday, February 06, 2012 - 9:22 am: | |
Back to the RCC. More Christian than SDA? Sure, because you don't need too much reform to bring their beliefs back in line with the early church. That is exactly what conservative Lutherans are....reformed Catholics!
But what do you reform Adventism too? You have to first get rid of EGW. Behind her Adventism is a strange mishmash of Catholic, Reformation, Free will and outright heretical beliefs. Which stream of thought do you reform back too? |
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