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Kiki
Registered user
Username: Kiki
Post Number: 50
Registered: 9-2011
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 7:13 pm: |     |
I know that this must have been answered before in the forum. This concept that the dead go to heaven is new to me. The SDAs had that wrong too?! Some cite the parable of Lazarus and the rich man as proof that people go to heaven or hell right after death but that's just a parable.
Was there anything that I learned from SDAs correct?
Ecclesiastes 12:7 (NIV)
and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Acts 2:29:
“Brothers, I can confidently speak to you about the Patriarch David: He is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.” Peter upholds the fact that we know David did die and was buried.
Peter states unequivocally, “For it was not David who ascended into the heavens.” |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 7658
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2012 - 5:32 am: | |
Quote: Was there anything that I learned from SDAs correct?
The problem with Adventism is that it has to latch on to one text as doctrine, then take parts of other scripture out of context to try and prop it up.
A better question might be, “On what premise was Adventism formed in the first place?”
Ellen White was a member of the Methodist church until the cornfield incident . She latched on to that her and a few others began teaching that false teaching in the Methodist church.
The leaders of the church called her in and tried to correct her but she wouldn’t listen, so eventually they had to remove her and her small band of followers from the Church, I’m sure not without much grief in having to do so.
The record of her removal is available. I have a copy somewhere on two huge hard drives.
So in reality the Seventh Day Adventist church was born in rebellion, the seeds of rebellion took hold right at the time she would not listen to the older and wiser heads whose job it was to pastor the flock.
In spite of the pleadings of the leaders of the Methodist church they insisted on date setting.
Ellen Whites sister did not fall into that trap and died as a member in good standing of that same church.
Ellen and her small band went out from there. That seed of rebellion grew into the root of a false church with no biblical grounds for its support and every branch you see today is the result of that moment of rebellion.
I'll try to give an example, an analogy if you will.
A timber cutter goes into a forest to select tree to cut down for timber. He comes to a tree and marks that tree. The tree looks good on the outside, but when felled he discovers that the tree he thought would make good timber is fit for nothing but fire wood, it is hollow on the inside.
Adventism is the way of that tree. When you cut into it there is hardly anything fit for use at all.
River |
Philharris
Registered user
Username: Philharris
Post Number: 2652
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2012 - 7:51 am: | |
Here’s my thoughts on the following question:
quote:
Was there anything that I learned from SDAs correct?
First, I am assuming that a person is a born again Christian who is now part of the Kingdom of God and simply seeking to understand God’s truth especially with things that pertain to how they lead their personal lives. Except to reject the things already known to be false from your own study of scripture, support of other trusted Christians and most of all through the leading of the Holy Spirit I think this may be the wrong question to ask.
Satan is an extremely cleaver liar and when you discover someone is telling lies and not to be trusted, the temptation is to simply assume everything they said is untruth. However, the ‘hook’ may just very well be that you are now rejecting something as false which is really true.
Instead, I think a better approach is to take all you think might be true and put it on ‘hold’, open to further study of God’s word without asking if Adventist theology had it right or not. Sometimes, I have found what I think they might be right but have discovered it is founded upon something contaminated with falsehood.
I hope I am not resurrecting debate on a old topic here but I would like to use the ‘Creation versus evolution debate’ as an example. I am a young earth creationist from my study of scripture, history and science. However, I have read some utter nonsense from the pin of Ellen. Obviously, she was into wild speculations not realizing her gibberish would ever be exposed. And, even if my understanding of this topic is not totally correct, it changes nothing about what the bible teaches about God as our Creator. This means, unlike Adventist, there is no need to defend my position concerning the age of the earth. It is open for further investigation and I learn far more from those who challenge me to restudy the foundation of my own position rather than those seem to want to ‘stroke my ego’.
One thing that seems clear is that it may very well take a lifetime to dump embedded falsehood so don’t reject anything until you know it to be untrue. As much as possible for you, put all things on hold until God reveals his truth to you. It is really of no importance as to what Adventist have right because their lies far outweigh any truth they might be proclaiming.
Phil
(Message edited by philharris on January 27, 2012) |
Gcfrankie
Registered user
Username: Gcfrankie
Post Number: 864
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2012 - 10:37 am: | |
I agree with Phil. Before comparing or worrying about anything being correct from the sda you need to get well grounded in God's word. I am not saying you need to know the bible inside out but you need to know it well enough to be able to spot the falsehood of what egw taught and the church still teaches. The church leaders have become so slick in hiding their true beliefs that there are christian churches that believe they are orthodox christians when they are not.
Gail |
Ric_b
Registered user
Username: Ric_b
Post Number: 1568
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2012 - 3:17 pm: | |
I am going to offer a tangent to what Phil and Gail said. Everything within SDAism has been tainted by Ellen White and the Great Controversy world view. That means that even the elements where SDAism is not directly in error, the teachings have still been impacted. So putting everything "on hold" and starting back at God's Word makes a great deal of sense. The really good news is that there is no particular time frame for when you need to have it all figured out. Avoiding the end times deception isn't based on knowing all the right things about Biblical doctrine. Salvation is not a theology exam. In Christianity it isn't what you know it is truly Who you know.
As it really sinks home that our refuge isn't found in knowing all the right doctrines, an interesting thing happens. You become more free to examine what Scripture says without an agenda. You don't need SDAism to be right or to be wrong on any point. |
Skeeter
Registered user
Username: Skeeter
Post Number: 1791
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2012 - 9:13 pm: | |
"Salvation is not a theology exam. In Christianity it isn't what you know it is truly Who you know. "
AMEN !!!!!  |
Handmaiden
Registered user
Username: Handmaiden
Post Number: 276
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2012 - 12:29 am: | |
Victorious Suffering
"Out of the spoils won in battle did they dedicate to maintain the house of the Lord" (1 Chron. 26:27).
Physical force is stored in the bowels of the earth, in the coal mines, which came from the fiery heat that burned up great forests in ancient ages; and so spiritual force is stored in the depths of our being, through the very pain which we cannot understand.
Some day we shall find that the spoils we have won from our trials were just preparing us to become true "Great Hearts" in the Pilgrim's Progress, and to lead our fellow pilgrims triumphantly through trial to the city of the King.
But let us never forget that the source of helping other people must be victorious suffering.
The whining, murmuring pang never does anybody any good. Paul did not carry a cemetery with him, but a chorus of victorious praise; and the harder the trial, the more he trusted and rejoiced, shouting from the very altar of sacrifice. He said, "Yea, and if I be offered upon the service and sacrifice of your faith, I joy and rejoice with you all."
Lord, help me this day to draw strength from all that comes to me!
Days of Heaven upon Earth
"He placed me in a little cage,
Away from gardens fair;
But I must sing the sweetest songs
Because He placed me there.
Not beat my wings against the cage
If it's my Maker's will,
But raise my voice to heaven's gate
And sing the louder still!" |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 13365
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2012 - 4:16 pm: | |
Handmaiden, thank you. You are so right.
Sometimes (well, perhaps usually) my suffering doesn't make much sense to me. I'm so stuck inside my limited perceptions...yet over time, I see that God is real and faithful and redemptive and powerful...and He still doesn't give me a pass from suffering! But He has given me so much more peace than I used to have.
He doesn't yank us out of suffering because healing only happens when we acknowledge the brokenness and allow Him to enter it. He gently and often incrementally teaches us to lean on Him without being devastated by terror, grief, or fear. He Himself is bigger and stronger than our hearts, and He redeems what we experience when we trust Him with it.
I feel as if I'm "blathering" a bit...I don't quite know how to express this idea, but I do know it is profound and real.
Colleen |
Kelleigh
Registered user
Username: Kelleigh
Post Number: 350
Registered: 7-2011
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 6:50 pm: | |
Suffering can be a wake up call...not always.. but sometimes it can be.
Years of suffering and distress led me to search for answers. A search I might not have taken otherwise. The reward has been beyond measure. My life is so blessed now that I have to pinch myself! The answer to life I'd been searching for is so simple - right under my nose. The answer to life is Love. Clichéd, I know. But once it sunk in, in all it's awesomeness and simplicity I decided to put the law of love into practice moment by moment and day by day. No if, buts or maybes. It's been a challenge sometimes! People and circumstances can be trying. Thought habits you didn't recognise you had to be offered to God for healing. But living by the simple principle of the Kingdom of Heaven is SO rewarding. For me it began with deeply and completely accepting the forgiveness of God by unreservedly forgiving others, and most important, myself. My 'new life' in the Spirit requires faith at every step - that is, believing that God really wants me to be happy for starters! And acting on that belief by choosing to feel love for others no matter how they treat me. Choosing to feel joy despite outside circumstances and practicing thankfulness and gratitude everyday and each moment of the day. Consciously turning from negativity, criticism, sadness, worry and judgement, again, without any 'ifs, buts or maybes'. What a challenge!
"Light banishes darkness".
That's the biblical metaphor. Darkness cannot exist in the presence of Light. By living in the Light - by choosing forgiveness, love, gratitude, kindness, faith and joy - darkness must flee as well as the suffering it brings. I have learned that God has been waiting all these long sad years to pour blessing upon my head! But while I had been stuck in fear, worry, sadness, anger, criticism and lamenting over all the bad stuff in my life, I had been effectively grieving God's Spirit and inviting suffering into my life.
Okay, let's wrap up my soapbox:
Here is my testimony - I have been endeavoring to live this way for a couple of months now. My life has been totally transformed. Every day God has something new and wonderful to show me. It’s like my Heavenly Father has been 'waiting in the wings' for me to wake up to myself! Practice faith in His promises! I know I don't deserve any of the good things that are coming into my life every day now. All I've done is choose to live by faith the greatest of all the commandments. It's that simple. It works.
"Extend to each person, no matter how trivial the contact, all the care and kindness and understanding and love that you can muster, and do it with no thought of any reward. Your life will never be the same again".
"The entire law is summed up in a single command, Love your neighbour as yourself"
Dear reader, you are meant to have an amazing life. You are meant to be full of joy! You are meant to be victorious! You are meant to be happy! You are meant to have an amazing life. This is what God came to bring to humanity through Jesus Christ.
“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full”
“Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows”.
“For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future”. |
Truman
Registered user
Username: Truman
Post Number: 41
Registered: 1-2012
| | Posted on Friday, February 03, 2012 - 9:44 pm: | |
That's probably the biggest thing we can do to improve our lives: Change our perception. "Why is this happening FOR me?" instead of "..TO me." Being thankful. Forgiving. Showing unconditional love.
Unfortunately, I'm just a baby Christian in all of those areas. (Um, that was the nicest way I could put it...) I could not forgive, or show unconditional love, if someone harmed or killed a member of my family. There are those who can, and I admire them. But I have a long way to go. |
Kelleigh
Registered user
Username: Kelleigh
Post Number: 365
Registered: 7-2011
| | Posted on Saturday, February 04, 2012 - 12:15 am: | |
"RISE" by Ingrid Poulson is an absolutely stunning autobiographical and self-help book. Ingrid's story of triumph over evil is astounding. Her husband violently raped her before shooting her two beautiful young children in front of her and shot her father who was trying to protect them. All three of her loved ones died before her eyes at the hands of her own husband. It's hard to imagine how somebody could survive such a tragedy and go on. Ingrid explained that forgiveness was essential to her ability to go on and rebuild her life. An amazing and inspiring testimony. But could anyone do it?
I shared a personal experience in the members area. I didn't think it was possible for me to completely forgive the person involved in my case (which wasn't nearly as horrific, but nonetheless significant). I found a way. But I needed help and guidance to find my way there. Now I am free and I can't begin to express how wonderful it is.
As far as I know, Ingrid is not a Christian. It may not matter about a persons level of 'personal growth' or 'maturity'. Perhaps forgiveness is possible for anyone to achieve? Otherwise, God would not require it of us? Just a thought.
Another thought. The courage people find to forgive 'big things' is truly inspiring. But maybe its the petty grievances of every day life, when left unresolved and unforgiven, that do the most harm to our spirit?
(Message edited by Kelleigh on February 04, 2012) |
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