| Author | Message | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9549 Registered: 3-2004  |
MJ, thank you Awesome God for answering her prayers. Diana L | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2295 Registered: 7-2007 |
Ric_b; I'm curious why the Roman Catholics call it the "sacrifice of the mass." What does that have to do with Jesus' birth? The atheists know where that holiday comes from and it makes us look like fools in their eyes. As far as the date is concerned, it was picked because December 25th is the winter solstice. The date of when the most important "god" that the pagan's worshipped - the "sun-god" was born. They rejoiced because their "god" was coming back to shine and make their crops grow for another year. Do you really think that the true and living God would have anything to do with that day? He had them build the tabernacle so that when people entered, they turned their backs on the sun. Does it really please Jesus to observe as His birthday, the "birthday" of a pagan "god?" Does it please Him to have a tree in His honor decorated with silver and gold? "Thus says the LORD: “ Do not learn the way of the Gentiles; Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven, For the Gentiles are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest, The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. 4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not topple." Jeremiah 10:2-4 Also notice Deuteronomy 12:4. The Israelites were not to use any of the heathen "sacred" things to worship the Lord. God said: "You shall not worship the Lord your God with such things." What is more important? Truth or tradition? Christians should be about the truth - not a lie. It's amazing how EVERY SINGLE thing about that day - except the candy cane - comes from paganism! | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2296 Registered: 7-2007 |
I know it's not a salvation issue, but Jesus did SO MUCH for me; why would I want to dishonor Him in the least? I just want to be a blessing to Him. I love Him and don't want to do anything that would dishonor Him! | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1426 Registered: 7-2004  |
If you believe that we are dishonoring God. And that we are assisting Satan in making fun of God, how can you really conclude that it is non-salvational? You language towards those who disagree with you does not sound like this is a non-salvational issue. I'll ask again, did you even bother to read the link that I posted in response? I thought that it was supposedly the celebration of Saturn, not the sun god. This is one of my criticism of these anti-Christmas crowd. The Babylonians and the Druids are two completely separate sets of people, with different gods and practices. They are distinct in time and place. Yet the Christmas haters throw together a practice from one, with a practice from another, and perhaps a teaching from a third and then present it as if this organized celebration was taken over by Christians as a whole unit. That is either misleading or poor scholasticism. You are absolutely correct about OT laws. And if all of those laws still applied, we would be bound to keep them along with the Sabbath and the sacrifices. But we have been freed from those laws. It is this freedom that allows us to celebrate our Lord's birth on Christmas. The same freedom that Paul says allows people to eat food sacrificed to idols, so long as they are not causing their brother to stumble. The atheists have little or no understanding of the origins of the Holiday, their only goal is to remove any references to Christ. So they latch hold of whatever they can that removes Christ from Christmas. I see you were unable to find any definitions of "Mass" that matched your claim. The origin of the word Mass is "to dismiss" not a ritual of sacrificing. Now it is true that the Catholic Mass can be described as containing the ritual sacrifice repeated each week ( although I think that exaggerates the doctrine) but Mass does not mean ritual sacrifice. And other churches that do not believe the RC doctrine of the Eucharist still refer to Liturgy as Mass either routinely or at least occasionally. You are calling for Christians to stand for Truth while repeating errors. I believe that many of us are standing for Truth. The Truth of our freedom in Christ. The Truth that we are not Israel and that we are given different rules to follow than Israel was given. | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 1081 Registered: 2-2008  |
much to write about all this... I will post a note on FB when I get all my thoughts put together. In a nutshell... This year I didn't put up one single decoration. This wasn't because of some grand enlighted belief that Christmas is pagan. Simply, my house flooded last year and we had moved all of our things from the flooded area to the garage and stacked up boxes and furniture right in front of my Christmas decorations. I could have moved boxes... I chooose not to. It would have been too much work. I have to say it was really interesting having an "undecorated" Christmas. What I discovered was this... since I had no decorations, I lost track of time with the busy-ness of life. I found myself not waiting with expectancy of the celebration of Christ's birth. My daughter asked me about whether I was getting ready for celebrating Christ's birth... she had to ask me because she couldn't tell if I was ready or not. In conclusion... if I apply this to the expectancy of Christ's return, I see all sorts of application. Without decorations or reminders, I can get easily distracted with life and not even think of Christ's return. Without decorations or reminders, no one can even tell if I'm getting ready for Christ's return. There's more thoughts I have about all this, but the bottom line is this... I'm decking the house out next year!! But I'm also going to set up decorations and reminders in my house about how much I love Christ and cannot wait for Him to come back for us! I need reminders... my kids need to see those reminders too. Merry Christmas everyone! vivian | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 274 Registered: 2-2011 |
~YEAH~ Vivian~  Wishing "You & Yours" A Very Happy New Year~2012 ! ~mj~ | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 275 Registered: 2-2011 |
~Its me~again! I want to thank, Ric-b, Leigh Anne & Diana L. for your kind responses to my post # 273~ regarding my precious Granddaughter~ She did keep her promise and sat by me in the Christmas Eve service at my church!!! I believe her heart was touched~ I continue to pray that this is the beginning of her journey back to JESUS! ~Blessings~ ~mj~ | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2297 Registered: 7-2007 |
Mj; I'm praying for your granddaughter. Ric_b; the things we "do" don't save us. Otherwise Christ died in vain. There's ONLY ONE thing that will determine whether someone will be saved or lost. And that's whether or not that person has the blood of the Lamb on the door posts of their heart. Many born again, saved Christians do things that dishonor their Lord. That doesn't save or lose them. I'm curious about one thing the link you posted said. It said, quote: "We think of circumcision as this really holy thing in the Old Testament associated with the covenant, which it was. But it wasn't that way originally. By golly, it seems to me that if God can do such a thing--take a practice that had heathen content to it, save the practice, reinvest new information to it--then it certainly is okay for the church to do it." I ask; where in the Bible does it say that God borrowed the practice of circumcism and made it good? (The article argued in the preceding paragraph that circumcism came from the heathens of Egypt.) So again, having a tree or not isn't a salvation issue. I'm glad about that! | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2298 Registered: 7-2007 |
Here's an interesting video by Jim Staley (a Messianic Jewish person.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNuIz63zBjM Here's the definition of "mass" from the Catholic encyclopedia: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10006a.htm | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 276 Registered: 2-2011 |
~Dianne~ I appreciate your prayers~ Thank-you~ ~mj~ | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1428 Registered: 7-2004 |
Asurprise, Thanks for the link. It does q nice job of addressing what Catholics imply when they use the word mass, but it does not address the actual meaning of the word, or it's use in other branches of Christianity, where it is synonymous with liturgy. Your repeated accusations that many people here AR dishonoring God is, at least to me, offensive. You have been given Scriptural, rationale, and emotional descriptions that demonstrate there is nothing but honor of God in the Christian celebration of the day. Yet you persist in accusing your brothers and sisters. Furthermore, SDAism thrives on the kind of Catholic conspiracy paranoia that you are promoting. It is a pipeline for feeding the Revelation seminars. The fallacy of Catholicism is exposed the same way that the fallacy of SDAism is exposed. Not with fear mongering and half-truths, but by exposing their actual teaching to the light of day. Both groups teach a false gospel, a salvation that is dependent on what we do. Both teach a view of sin where only a confessed sin can be forgiven, and a view of sin where it is our sinful acts that separate us from God, not our sinful (dead spirit) nature that separates us. Catholicism's problem is anti-Christian theology, not double secret holidays. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1429 Registered: 7-2004 |
Asurprise, The information about the practice of circumcision comes from history. Are you now saying that we should reject all historical information that is not specifically discussed in Scripture? | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2299 Registered: 7-2007 |
Ric_b; are you suggesting that history proves that God's motives were to take a pagan celebration of circumcism and make it Godly? That link to Jim Staley's video is incomplete. It doesn't finish. I think a better thing to do would be to watch all 9 of his presentations on the subject. Here's the first: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10006a.htm | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1430 Registered: 7-2004 |
Exposing some of the errors from the tract that Asurprise posted
The date had nothing to do with the "sun god" and certainly nothing to do with the sun god rising three days after equinox. Here are the facts about the December celebration of Satunalia
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| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1431 Registered: 7-2004 |
The tract that asuprise posted claims
The word mass comes for the Latin for " dismiss" and has no use or relationship to death. Anglicans and Eurpoean Lutherans both refer to the Liturgy as Mass. Even articles from the Reformed church discuss their lack of standard Litugy or Mass, using the words interchangeably. The article is wrong about the meaning of the word and about it's use. Once again revealing the lack of real research into the subject. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1432 Registered: 7-2004 |
Asurprise, I am making no comment about God's motives. I can not even discern the motives of people let alone God. I am simply pointing out, as the article did, that circumcision did not start with Abraham. It existed before God used it as a sign with Abraham. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1433 Registered: 7-2004 |
Asurprise, Are your links from the same Jim Staley who promotes keeping the Sabbath and other feasts? Who promotes the need to eat only clean foods? Who denies that we are now forever alive in Christ? And I'm not completely certain, but does he also deny the Trinity? And you are suggesting that we spend out times watching his teaching? Bad idea, IMO. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1434 Registered: 7-2004 |
Asurprise's link also claims
the truth is that Scripture leave the date completely undefined. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1435 Registered: 7-2004 |
The tract also incorrectly states that
it appears that the Puritans objected to the excessive celebration associated with Christmas and to the link between "Mass" and Catholicism. They didn't outlaw Christmas as witchcraft, what they did was rename it Christ-tide and make it a day of fasting. | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 2954 Registered: 8-2004  |
I know of no one who thinks Jesus was actually born on December 25th. That is just the day we've agreed to celebrate his birth. |
