| Author | Message | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 1057 Registered: 2-2008  |
Have you guys seen the blog called "The Sabbath Challenge"? They even have a Facebook fan page called "The Sabbath Challenge" also. It is a couple who say that they are Baptist and that they are "challenged" to keep the weekly sabbath. They are blogging about their experience of keeping the weekly sabbath. The name of their blog "The Sabbath Challenge" got me thinking... Really… is keeping a weekly Sabbath a challenge? I’m talking to those of us who live in the States where there is no persecution for being a Christian and where most of us have a 2 day weekend. Is keeping the Sabbath a challenge? I’m not talking about keeping a Sabbath like Ellen says we should… I’m talking about resting vs. working. C’mon, it’s Saturday and I really need to vacuum the house… is it a challenge to “not vacuum” on a Saturday? Is that a personal sacrifice? Wow… I’m giving up vacuuming the house so I can rest. Is that a challenge? Would I rather go in and work 8 hrs at my dental office or go take a hike in the woods with my family? Is it a “Sabbath Challenge” to plan my daughter’s birthday party for Saturday night instead of Saturday afternoon so I can “rest” during the Sabbath hours? Can anyone hear Jesus just screaming in your ears??? "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. (Mat 23:23) What about a “Love your neighbor as Christ loved us Challenge”? What about a “Forgiveness Challenge”? Now those are challenges!! What about the girl that crossed boundaries into my marriage… am I suppose to forgive and love her like Christ loves me? Or what about the drunk who kills my child because he’s out driving… am I suppose to forgive him? What about the family members of the victims of Jeffrey Dahmer? Are they suppose to forgive and love him? Crazy. Now THAT’S a challenge! This is what we are called to do. We are called to forgive. Called to love others as Christ has loved us… and THAT’S a challenge! Keeping a weekly Sabbath… in my world isn’t much of a challenge. What do you think? vivian p.s. I have also posted this on FB. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13163 Registered: 12-2003  |
Good for you, Vivian. I so agree with you... Colleen | ||
| Tfelmon Registered user Username: Tfelmon Post Number: 60 Registered: 7-2011 |
After reading this blog I found this paragraph that states this persons position quite clearly: "It isn't about following a set of rules that will send you to Hell if you break them, but it is about experiencing God and telling Him that He is important enough to spend a whole day with. Would we even question spending a day with our best friend? God just wants to be our very best friend." I think those that consider themselves "formers" have a sore spot for the word Sabbath and lumped this poor blogger into that paradigm. I hear on the radio from time to time about shutting out the world to spend time with your family on vacation. How many actually do that by not answering the smart phone or posting and reading FB? I was is South Africa a couple of weeks ago on business and had no eletronic connection for a couple days...boy was that weird? I had to regroup and figure out what to do with myself. This is what I think this blogger is trying to do by setting aside time to devote entirely to God. OK, the blogger has chosen Saturday...so what! | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 1198 Registered: 7-2004  |
For even that position to be publicized sounds like it's meant to be guilt-inducing. It automatically labels those who don't do this as people who must not think God is "important enought to spend a whole day with." It categorizes Christians into ones who are "real" Christians versus those who basically aren't. Maybe I'm reading too much of an SDA background into it, but that position strongly speaks against Romans 14:5-9: Regarding a day or not regarding a day is a personal and individual issue, and God equally accepts both. Those verses don't even say one is better off or honoring God more in any way from the other. So I don't mind if this person does that, but keep it private and don't try guilting others into thinking they are devaluing God if they don't do the same thing. | ||
| Tfelmon Registered user Username: Tfelmon Post Number: 61 Registered: 7-2011 |
I didn't feel guilted in reading their expereince, I also didn't feel they were pushing this behaviour on anyone else...who cares if they made it public...I make my own faith statements public on FB quite often, but tht doesn't require/guilt anyone to follow suit. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2258 Registered: 7-2007 |
When I was an Adventist, I might have said something similar to that blogger. In my mind, if I didn't "keep" Saturday, I was disobeying God and if I kept on and didn't repent, I would be lost. I had no idea that when a person gets saved (and when I was an SDA, I didn't think that a person "could" get saved until Jesus came back, because Ellen White said not to say or feel that you're saved), anyway I had no idea that when a person gets saved, they STAY saved! Their sins, past, present and future are forgiven! Having ALL my sins forgiven; past, present and future, was really mind blowing for me and I had to go over and over that verse in 1st John 2:12 in order to "get" it! John wrote that letter and by the time the believers he was writing to, got the letter, their sins were STILL forgiven! (And of course the Bible says that a believer has been saved in Ephesians 2:8-9, 2nd Timothy 1:9 and Titus 3:5 - which it wouldn't be able to say if a believers past, present and future sins weren't forgiven. If future sins weren't forgiven, the believer wouldn't be able to "have been saved.") Keeping that certain day was extremely important to me when I was an Adventist, because I was taught by the church that if I "knew better" and DIDN'T keep it, I'd be lost. In fact Ellen White teaches that ANY sin not overcome, will cause us to be lost. For a real Christian, the dynamics are completely different. He or she is no longer focused on their behavior, because God Himself promises to KEEP the believer saved. God Himself is responsible for the believer's behavior. At this point, SDAs and other cults will jump in and claim that a little legalism is required in order to "keep" the believer on the straight and narrow. But the Holy Spirit in one's life is what makes the difference. When a person gets saved, the Holy Spirit comes into their life. That's the difference between a saved person and an unsaved person (Romans 8:9&11). The Galatians were doing the same thing, when Galatians was written. They had gotten legalistic. "You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you." Notice that All the various types of Sabbaths are included in this. (Notice the weekly, monthly and seasonal/yearly types of Sabbaths included in this. A similar passage is Colossians 2:16-17 where it names the same three groupings and says they are a shadow of Jesus. Raven mentions another passage (Romans 14:5-9) where it says it doesn't matter whether one "keeps" a day or not. And the Galatians were sternly told: "You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes, Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing-if it really was for nothing? Does God give you His Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law? or because you believe what you heard?" Galatians 3:1-5 That's the difference between the cults and Christianity. The cults try to have it both ways - salvation by Jesus' death, plus their own efforts. They don't get saved, so they don't have the Holy Spirit. That's why they can look so "holy" in some ways, yet their hearts are black with filth. It's heartbreaking and I have such a burden for them - not just SDAs, but all the cults! | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 1059 Registered: 2-2008 |
On their FB fan page I asked them what they have learned about Christ and the rest that He has given them by observing a weekly sabbath... She said it was a good question and she would get back to me. vivian ... they are not keeping the Sabbath and trying to learn or have more insight about Christ. Christ is not in focus... | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 1199 Registered: 7-2004 |
Now that I've read the entire Sabbath Challenge blog to date, I have some more comments. I also did not feel guilted regarding Sabbath reading it because I know what the Bible actually teaches. But there are plenty of people who don't, and they will be feel guilty for not measuring up or think this couple is an example of a better, more sincere Christian walk. I find the progression very disturbing and hope/pray it ultimately leads to an understanding of what the Sabbath day rest actually pointed to - not through observing the day, but through studying what the Bible actually teaches on the topic. They do have plenty of time to study it out since they are taking a day each week to include that time. What I find so disturbing is that what may have started out (according to the posted position) as just experiencing God by spending a day with our best friend, has changed in to a requirement to keep all of the commandments, and what God expects of His followers. That wording is there, sprinkled throughout the weekly blogs. A recent week's challenge was choosing between keeping the Sabbath and having their daughter's birthday party on the Sabbath. They chose (and considered it a worthwhile example for their daughter) to do what God requires instead and have their daughter's party after sundown. As can so easily happen, it is fast turning into pure legalism. Of course it's a challenge, because it's hard work to figure out exactly how to keep the Law. Their background that fed their understanding shows they were ripe for these conclusions, and are the type who could easily be persuaded by SDAs. This is because they think they were taught that the Law was only for Israelites (true) but Christians are free to sin in any way they want to because they don't have a Law. They fail to recognize Christians don't want to sin and have the Holy Spirit instead of the Law to guide them. So they think God still requires all followers to be under the Law to prevent sinning. Maybe God is using this experience to show them where it all ultimately leads, how hopeless Law-keeping is, so that they can truly recognize what Grace is and the role of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 218 Registered: 2-2011 |
~Perhaps the couple on this 'blog' are Seventh- day Baptists ? ~mj~ | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 1200 Registered: 7-2004 |
No, they said they are Southern Baptists and that they are still active in their church on Sunday. They long to find a Sabbath-keeping church to switch to, but said that so far the Holy Spirit hasn't led them out of their current church. (Message edited by Raven on November 20, 2011) | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 838 Registered: 1-2007 |
I am praying that the Holy Spirit will keep them away from sda. I understand that the seventh-day baptist church only meets on the 7th day but the rest of their service is from baptist teaching. I have never visited one but when I was a sda there was a couple who came for about a year and then returned to their 7th day baptist church. Gail | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 1064 Registered: 2-2008 |
Raven, I have already had a discussion with the blogger (not sure which) about adventism. I did post this last Friday on their fan page on FB this question:
The blogger responded and said these were good questions, but no one else has posted their thoughts about this question. If you go to their fan page, you have to click at the upper right "most recent" to see my question. I think it would be great for us to post our thoughts on how we see Christ as our rest... vivian p.s. I agree with your conclusions about the blog. It is a breeding ground for legalism. | ||
| Tfelmon Registered user Username: Tfelmon Post Number: 63 Registered: 7-2011 |
I think its important to restate what this blogger said in the very begining: "It isn't about following a set of rules that will send you to Hell if you break them, but it is about experiencing God and telling Him that He is important enough to spend a whole day with. Would we even question spending a day with our best friend? God just wants to be our very best friend." There is nothing wrong with this statment or with what they are doing, therefore I don't see how anyone could mistake their efforts with compulsory sabbath keeping. | ||
| Indy4now Registered user Username: Indy4now Post Number: 1065 Registered: 2-2008 |
I agree with you Tfelmon... I don't see a problem with them wanting to keep a Sabbath. When I first came across their fan page a month or two ago, I saw that there were a lot of Adventists posting on their page on FB. I felt compelled to informed them of Adventism and their belief of the Investigative Judgement. What compelled me to post here was the fact that they called it a "challenge" to keep a Sabbath. I don't see that resting for 24 hours is a challenge. To schedule a birthday party later in the day so they could "rest"... isn't a challenge to me. I was intrigued by the thought that it is a challenge to do this. I could just imagine Jesus saying "... what about the weightier provisions of the law?" To me, to offer forgiveness in all sincerity can be a challenge... for me to love my neighbor as Christ loved me... can be a challenge too. What I did find interesting is that when I asked the blogger about what she/he had learned about "rest" from keeping a day of rest... she/he really didn't have an answer. She/he have been keeping a sabbath for 12 weeks and didn't relate that the rest of Sabbath is the shadow of the rest we have in Christ. They did respond this morning that they have thought about my question and answered it in their blog for this week. I'm going to check that out tonight. vivian | ||
| Tfelmon Registered user Username: Tfelmon Post Number: 64 Registered: 7-2011 |
I've heard many stories of folks converting to SDAism because of the Sabbath. Thanks God you informed them of what the IJ really is! | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 2007 Registered: 6-2006  |
I guess I have a problem with one using the term "keeping Sabbath" in the first place, with the idea that they're doing something good for God, or keeping the 10 Commandments, or whatever. It's not Sabbath. As a Christian, our Sabbath is the rest that Jesus gives us 24/7. Unless you're completely following the Biblical account/description of Sabbath, then you're not following anything. This would be just like me saying I celebrate Chanukkah, and light a candleabra of 5 candles and serve ham for dinner. Do you see what I mean? Just because I say it, doesn't mean it's true. Same with anyone deciding to keep Sabbath and travelling from their homes, using electricity (lighting fire) and cooking up a big luncheon (work). I guess if they were to say they wanted to spend a full day each week in prayer and Bible study, that would be one thing. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13168 Registered: 12-2003 |
Leigh Anne, you're right. It's always so interesting AND helpful to hear the issue articulated by a "never been". It really helps me put things in perspective! Colleen | ||
| Tfelmon Registered user Username: Tfelmon Post Number: 66 Registered: 7-2011 |
So the word SABBATH is a sore spot for many on this forum then? So why is it that one's motives are so easily attacked when it comes to keeping Sabbath...who cares? What I find on this forum is that Colossians 2:16-17 only goes one way...from Sabbath to Sunday but not the other way around. "So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality." While I am not an apologist for the Sabbath, I fail to see balance here especially with this blogger. Its a totally different issue when dealing with the offical SDA Church sabbath. Again, who cares if this blogger wants to "keep Sababth" and in this case its being done for God. I would only see it as a problem as being done inspite of God as traditinoal SDAism tends to do. | ||
| Cloudy Registered user Username: Cloudy Post Number: 159 Registered: 7-2007  |
I read the blog , and her response to Vivian. She goes through selected Bible verses well known to every sda on how God rested at creation, then instituted the sabbath as a permanent statute for all people, gives special blessings to those who keep it, etc. I do find myself reacting to her thoughts that the sabbath is the way that God commanded us to receive His rest, and that we are breaking His commandment if we do not keep it. In her conclusion she emphasizes that the sabbath is a blessing that God gives us "permission" to have, as it is too challenging to experience rest in Christ without the sabbath. So, it is a commandment, not a suggestion, but we are to keep it out of love, not because we need to in order to be saved, because we can't really experience reality without following the rules that shadow reality. Got that? It seems so ironic that sda's are trying to use Col 2:16 to deflect criticism of keeping the sabbath while they teach that it is a commandment that applies to all, and applaud her for publicly challenging others to join her in keeping the sabbath because she feels it is a commandment for all mankind. I have not noticed anyone here criticizing her or even the SDAs for not "keeping Sunday" so I don't know how you apply objecting to being told you are breaking God's commandment to a verse about not letting anyone condemn you for NOT celebrating Sabbaths.? | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 2008 Registered: 6-2006 |
Tfelmon, Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I mean everyone. I think I was the only one who explained that I have a problem with people using the term Sabbath when they are not really keeping the actual Sabbath of the Bible. You keep saying "who cares?" but continue to get angrier and angrier with each post. Why do you care so much and why is it okay for you to care but not the rest of us? ??? Leigh Anne |
