| Author | Message | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1374 Registered: 5-2007 |
One of the things that I have been trying to grasp is the construct of this age. The New covenant began at the cross. Christianity began within the book of acts and the writings of the Apostle Paul. The Church began after the cross. Christian doctrine departed from Judism at the cross. I am trying to build upon basic keys and not allow myself to slip into tangents of conjecture. It all hinges on what was meant by the prophecy ; Jeremiah 31:31-35 New International Version (NIV) 31 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. J: Who are the people of Judah? Who are the people of Israel? The Jews? This suggests that the new covenant is addressed to the Jews? 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to[a] them,[b]” declares the LORD. 33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel J: Israel? What about us. As I already note the first covenant was with the Jews alone. after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. J: What laws, new laws? The same laws, expanded laws? How do we biblically know what laws are being discussed here? I will be their God, and they will be my people. J: Who is they? 34 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” J: I have been reading that this refers to all sins past and future, that they are not remembered. I do not understand this. Why the judgement then? This gets into the belief that we have to continually confess sins , verses , we are already forgiven. From being subject to judgement to being exempted from judgement at all. From working to be as good as you can be and sin conscious in a defensive confessant mode to being set free and living in a state of renewal and upward growth in grace. Not being graded on a curve, but being made righteousness outside of ourselves entirely. But even here, all this is a mystery. Why are we going through all these things if it is a transactional one deal. What are we doing here? Why the centuries to make a point? Why do we need a lifetime to learn something that some seem to learn in a few weeks. Why has this world taken 6000 years to cycle through what is supposed to be a snap decision to accept Christ and be saved? These questions and the evidential process of whatever is going on is why (I believe) there is a lot more going on than once saved always saved , grace alone and all the over simplified things I would like to have for my faith basis. It is not nearly as simple as people want it to be. | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 492 Registered: 1-2007  |
Jim, If it it is this complex than no one can be saved. Who is right who is wrong. You can spend your entire life hearing all sides of the story. Choose your flavor there are many many denominations and many splinters within each denomination, or we can choose another religion all together, perhaps Judaism, Hindusim, Islam? All of which have denominations and splinters as well. Don't beat yourself up with all this, you will waste your time with things never truly answered and you will miss out on the chance to enjoy life and love those around you. Love God, Love Jesus, Love others, Yeah it's that simple. Paul | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 493 Registered: 1-2007 |
and yes, I am the red headed step child on here. I don't come on for some time then just show up. I probably say things that many may disagree with. But oh well. I just want you to be happy, enjoy life and love. I can't help but notice the turmoil you are going through by reading your posts. Paul | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 494 Registered: 1-2007 |
Either that or I'm just ignored... LOL | ||
| Christo Registered user Username: Christo Post Number: 281 Registered: 2-2008 |
Jim, Of course it's once saved always saved, it's a promise that none can be snatched out of his hand. I think what happens sometimes is that when the storms come through our lives we sometimes have to pinch ourselves with the Gospel to remind us , and reassure ourselves that it is true. The world, and our flesh are always trying to tell us we aren't saved, but don't you believe it. By the blood of Jesus, Chris P.S. Hey Paul, most of what you say i couldn't have said better myself. No sense arguing with a man when he's right. Thanks, Chris | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13057 Registered: 12-2003  |
Paul--I always like seeing you show up here. There's nothing "step-child" about you...you're one of us, Paul. This journey of discovering the truth about reality and our own lives is painful and hard. God is in the business of redeeming not only our lives but our pasts as well. Jim, that promise of the New Covenant WAS made with Israel. That promise has never been broken. But Paul explains in detail in Romans how gentiles have been ushered into the new covenant through faith in Jesus as well. Through believing in the Lord Jesus, gentiles as well as Jews can enter into the new covenant with God (see Romans 4-5). ' Judgment is already a fact. It is not simply a future reality. We are BORN into judgment...and the wrath of God abides on us until we place our faith in the Lord Jesus (Jn. 3:18, 26). When we place our faith in the Lord Jesus, we are born again and pass out of judgment into life (Jn 5:24). The Great White Throne judgment of Revelation 20 is not a time when people find out if they're saved or not. That judgment is only for the lost. That judgment is for the final verdict of the exact consequences each person will face. We are BORN into a curse, born into judgment. We are born condemned (Eph 2:1-3). We can only escape being judged by receiving Jesus and being ransomed by His blood. We are not born "neutral" and left to decide what we'll do. We are born judged. We have to receive Jesus to be released from the curse of death. Peter tells us that God is not slow to keep His promises as people consider slowness. He is patient, not wishing anyone to be lost (2 Pet. 3:9). He's not waiting for people to "get it". He is waiting for all those who will be saved to be born. He's not waiting for you to "get it right", Jim. He's just asking you to receive Him and let Him be the One who sovereignly directs your life. Colleen | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 495 Registered: 1-2007 |
Thanks Colleen and Chris. There has been a lot going on in my life lately, wife and I seperated, some financial struggles, etc. I struggled with doubts for some time lately. I am my own worst enemy, a sort of Wolf in Jesus' covering, lol. Paul | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13064 Registered: 12-2003 |
Paul, I wanted to ask you about that, but I didn't want to bring it up if it was too painful. Thanks for saying something...I'm so sorry about your wife. With prayers for you, Colleen | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 496 Registered: 1-2007 |
Colleen, thanks. It was very painful at first, it has only been 7 months since she moved out. I decided to be the man Christ would want me to be. I told her I loved her and would be willing to work it out if she chose to. I was hurt, angry, felt rejected, but because I love her I let her go,and put aside my selfishness so that this could be easier on our kids. She lives about 2 miles from me and we are doing shared custody with our kids. They stay one week with her than one week with me, they are handling it pretty well so far and see that they are both loved and understand that it is not their fault. They also see that my wife and I are getting along. Strange but we get along much better this way. I am such a family man and enjoy coming home and being with my family, and now once a week my home is empty. It's hard at times, but I will remain strong for them. When my wife moved out, I helped her move, setup her funiture, hung up TVs on the wall, and I will continue to show her my love by serving the way Jesus served. Some of my athiest friends do not understand it as they think I should cut her off, but she has given me many years of happy times, and she is a great mother to our kids. It would be foolish to hold a grudge, I have to understand that she feels the way she does and not sure what she wants. As of now, I don't see a possiblity of us reconciling. My focus is being a Father to my kids and showing them what love looks like, that it does not hold grudges, or is bitter. This has been a learning experience for me, it let me see where my faults were, it surely was humbling to look at my faults and admit to them. Paul | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13068 Registered: 12-2003 |
Oh, Paul...I am so sorry. You are modeling strength, though, to your children. Praying for God to guide you and redeem this situation for His glory and your good, Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 9458 Registered: 3-2004  |
Paul, I am so sorry. I will be praying for you and your wife and kids. God knows what it is all about and I pray that all of this is for His glory and for your good. Diana | ||
| Paulcross Registered user Username: Paulcross Post Number: 210 Registered: 4-2005 |
Jim, You've posed a couple of questions that I would like to comment on. These questions were; This suggests that the new covenant is addressed to the Jews? and Israel? What about us. As I already note the first covenant was with the Jews alone. I believe that passages such as Jeremiah 31 reflect God's efforts to bring the people of Israel back the the covenant relationship [New Covenant]. Abraham had entered in by faith. The book of Acts provides clear evidence that God calls all people to a New Covenant relationship. In Jeremiah, God presents this returning to "New Covenant" to Israel but the New Covenant is NOT defined by the recipient but by God and God also invites non Israelites into that kind of relationship [Colleen said it well in Post # 13057 - Romans 4-5]. This of course caused some serious cognitive dissonance as is recorded in Acts 13:38-48. [Just one example]. The Jewish Christians felt that God's acts were centered in them and their traditions and it took much work to break out of that understanding - Peter and Cornelius are another good example. Paul Cross | ||
| Paulcross Registered user Username: Paulcross Post Number: 211 Registered: 4-2005 |
Paul, I have read you posts over several times and all I can offer is to continue to pray for you. This is a most difficult path you follow but from my own experience He is faithful - frequently incomprehensible in the "now" - but faithful. I pray that the God will bring you healing and grace for today. Psalm 38:7 "But now, what do I look for? My hope is in you." Paul Cross | ||
| Pnoga Registered user Username: Pnoga Post Number: 497 Registered: 1-2007 |
Thank so much for all your prayers Paul | ||
| Hec Registered user Username: Hec Post Number: 1832 Registered: 3-2009 |
Paul, I'm also praying for you and yours. Hec | ||
| Nowhitehats Registered user Username: Nowhitehats Post Number: 50 Registered: 4-2010 |
Jim, Just curious which verses you are referring to. | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1375 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hello Paul. Good to hear from you. I try not to beat myself up, but often I do , especially when it comes to guilt trips that generate anxiety. I am so hoping that I am making progress in the right direction to escape legalism. If anything, I am trying to wear it out by rehashing the conflicts until I can see what really does not and will not work. But trying to makes sense out of the long paths of trial and error is probably a waste of time. Don't over think it as they say. | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1376 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hello Chris. The world, and our flesh are always trying to tell us we aren't saved, but don't you believe it. J: Chris , do you believe that Salvation is unconditional? Any key passage that tells you that? | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1377 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hello Colleen, C: Peter tells us that God is not slow to keep His promises as people consider slowness. He is patient, not wishing anyone to be lost (2 Pet. 3:9). J: In context, being lost, do we understand this as not having accepted or believing upon Christ? C: He's not waiting for people to "get it". He is waiting for all those who will be saved to be born. J: Isn't that getting it? C: He's not waiting for you to "get it right", Jim. He's just asking you to receive Him and let Him be the One who sovereignly directs your life. J: I have been studying a Pastor Prince book on the topic of Law vs Grace. He plainly says that the Bible indictates that we are unable to perfectly keep the law and never could. Compare this with Churches that teach the law or a model of the law to enhance morality "religion". The SDA teach that Grace enables us to rise to the level of being able to keep the law (Caveat Alert) within our sphere. This then is that blur. Grace leads us back to the law by it's end aim??? , or , or Grace is wholly apart from the law. The law served it's purpose, but it is not a functional human concept. He brought up the Tree of Knowldege of Good and Evil was effectively equal to The Law of Good and Evil. As we were never intended to partake of that tree, but rather the tree of Life, Under Grace, we are not partaking of the Law , but of Grace which is Life. His point, we were never intended to function under the law, under the knowledge of good and evil. During the night, I wondered yet about this Sabbath question. In the models , the repeated 9 laws in the NT , nad a set aside or modifaction of the 4th. It's mixed up from teh start. Because accepting any 10C semi model forces me to analyize the Sabbath question. God Hallowed it, The 7th Day is the Sabbath of The Lord thy God. The Sabbath was made for man. on and on..... Then the flip side, no record of Sabbath command prior to Moses nor after the Cross. I sthis like a lost book of the Bible? Or was it intentional? As I study, I am surely trying to NOT filter or ignore what the BIble Does teach. Paul's writings are indeed radical change. I can just imagine how much confusion there was back then among the converts. Galatians, Romans, Hebrews. It's all in there. Yet , try to get two sides to see anything the same way is impossible. This is suspect is because they both start off from different presuppositions. For myself; I am seeing there is indeed a new way, that there was a change regarding the covenants and the "tablets" "the ministry of death" . I am weary of the denial of plain text being spun to say something else or to mean the opposite of what it says. So what is the true model? the true way? I think that it is likely that the 10C , the law system is not how we are to function from. It is in this that I am trying to settle with conviction. If I am wrong, I need to know that as well. This is why I have not been able to engage any church as yet. I do not want to show up either rebelious, ignorant or foolishly mixed up as if I have no common sense. Run silent Run deep is only so effective. | ||
| Jim02 Registered user Username: Jim02 Post Number: 1378 Registered: 5-2007 |
Pnoga, Paul, I understand some of what you must be going through with your separation. You are doing the right thing keeping close and available to your kids. You probably have heard of 'DivorceCare' sponsered by different churches. I attended a full series with them. They will not have "the" answers, but they might help with some of the pieces mostly through insight and mutual sharing. One day at a time. |
